A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Homebuilt PC's
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 12th 11, 02:57 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand why
they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product

This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product

Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating system?

Thanks,
John
  #2  
Old March 12th 11, 05:13 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Man-wai Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 580
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS


Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.
I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.


USB 2 support is available on and after WinXP.
You should make sure that its eSATA port really works.

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.37.3
^ ^ 00:09:01 up 1 day 10:30 0 users load average: 1.06 1.00 0.61
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa
  #3  
Old March 12th 11, 07:35 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Ian D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 333
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS


"John" wrote in message
.. .
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand why
they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product

This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product

Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating system?

Thanks,
John


I have that Vantec enclosure. It works with Vista and Win 7. The
specs say XP and above, meaning Vista, and Win 7, and probably
even Win 8, when it's released. If your computer has an eSATA
connector, the Vantec is the better bet as it will be faster than USB.
The Rosewill is USB only. Also, eSATA is bootable, and the
connection from your computer to the drive is straight through,
without any intervening controller. The Vantec's internal controller
is for the USB to SATA conversion. That means it can use any OS
you motherboard supports, with the drive formatted accordingly.

If your computer doesn't have eSATA, but has unused internal
SATA connectors, you can get a cable to connect from SATA to
eSATA connectors on a back slot cover.

  #4  
Old March 12th 11, 08:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

John wrote:

Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand why
they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or Linux?

See the following:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product


If you want to see the actual manufacturer's specifications on a product
then click in the "Manufacturer Product Page" link in Newegg's details
page. Notice what operating systems the *manufacturer* states for that
product.
  #5  
Old March 12th 11, 10:11 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

John wrote:
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand why
they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product


This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product


Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating system?

Thanks,
John


The components of ESATA a

1) SATA - OSes have had SATA drivers, or the ability to accept a manufacturer's
SATA driver, for some time. Both Vista and Windows 7, have their own
generic drivers, or in some cases, you can install a driver for the hardware.
If the OS is an old one, if the hardware has a "compatibility" mode,
you can still use your drive. So in fact, there are plenty of options
here. Even an IDE to SATA adapter, and a SATA to ESATA cable, might just
work.

2) Enhanced transmit and receive levels on the interfaces. This
allows 2 meter cables, instead of 1 meter cables. If you're having
trouble, switch to a shorter cable. This is seldom an issue, so I
include this point, as a means of distinguishing SATA from ESATA.
A tiny difference in electrical levels, so the cable could be made
longer and still work.

3) Hot swap. The driver for the chip doing the ESATA, needs hot swap
capability if you want the disk to be mounted the instant it is plugged
in. If, for any reason, hot swap is not working, you can plug in and
turn on the drive, before the OS boots, and then you can use it. So
a lack of hot swap is not the end of the world. Hot swap is available
with an AHCI driver, but if that is too hard to arrange when needed, you
can also ignore the requirement, and just plug in and start the ESATA
drive, before the OS starts to boot.

In the grand scheme of things, you have little to worry about. Maybe if you
have really crappy cabling or adapter plates, it'll put up a fight. If the
computer case comes with an ESATA port on the front, computer case manufacturers
aren't exactly electrical engineering graduates, and they'll gladly put defective
connection schemes on the front of your computer. This applies to those
$50 computer cases you buy off Newegg, to build a home computer with. If
you're buying a Dell/HP/Acer/Gateway or the like, they've probably tested
the front connector at least once. It's only home builders that have to
worry.

With SATA cabling, it's not a good idea to bend the cable until it becomes
kinked. Damaging the insulation, can upset the impedance of the cable.
A slight background error rate may result. If you have problems with a
SATA setup, a cable swap may fix it.

Paul
  #6  
Old March 13th 11, 12:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

On 03/12/2011 04:11 PM, Paul wrote:
John wrote:
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand
why they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or
Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product


This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product


Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating
system?

Thanks,
John


The components of ESATA a

1) SATA - OSes have had SATA drivers, or the ability to accept a
manufacturer's
SATA driver, for some time. Both Vista and Windows 7, have their own
generic drivers, or in some cases, you can install a driver for the
hardware.
If the OS is an old one, if the hardware has a "compatibility" mode,
you can still use your drive. So in fact, there are plenty of options
here. Even an IDE to SATA adapter, and a SATA to ESATA cable, might just
work.

2) Enhanced transmit and receive levels on the interfaces. This
allows 2 meter cables, instead of 1 meter cables. If you're having
trouble, switch to a shorter cable. This is seldom an issue, so I
include this point, as a means of distinguishing SATA from ESATA.
A tiny difference in electrical levels, so the cable could be made
longer and still work.

3) Hot swap. The driver for the chip doing the ESATA, needs hot swap
capability if you want the disk to be mounted the instant it is plugged
in. If, for any reason, hot swap is not working, you can plug in and
turn on the drive, before the OS boots, and then you can use it. So
a lack of hot swap is not the end of the world. Hot swap is available
with an AHCI driver, but if that is too hard to arrange when needed, you
can also ignore the requirement, and just plug in and start the ESATA
drive, before the OS starts to boot.

In the grand scheme of things, you have little to worry about. Maybe if you
have really crappy cabling or adapter plates, it'll put up a fight. If the
computer case comes with an ESATA port on the front, computer case
manufacturers
aren't exactly electrical engineering graduates, and they'll gladly put
defective
connection schemes on the front of your computer. This applies to those
$50 computer cases you buy off Newegg, to build a home computer with. If
you're buying a Dell/HP/Acer/Gateway or the like, they've probably tested
the front connector at least once. It's only home builders that have to
worry.

With SATA cabling, it's not a good idea to bend the cable until it becomes
kinked. Damaging the insulation, can upset the impedance of the cable.
A slight background error rate may result. If you have problems with a
SATA setup, a cable swap may fix it.

Paul



The case is a new Antec Sonata III 500, you and a few others helped me
select parts for a new XP build in late December, early January of this
year. The front mounted Esata port is connected internally directly to a
SATA block on the motherboard (no kinks ) so hopefully the hardware is
current enough to be satisfactory.

My OS if you check my sent from info is quickly becoming Linux Mint
(Julia 10, x686 64 bit). It's a refreshing change from Microsoft but a
steep learning curve.

Hot swapping is of no interest, the enclosure is strictly for back up
purposes. I have read (first hand user tests) that Esata is roughly 3X
faster than USB2 in the real world and the reason I am interested.

I value your opinion and ask: What do you think of the first selection
above? Any better suggestions?

Thanks,
John



  #7  
Old March 13th 11, 01:26 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

On 03/12/2011 01:35 PM, Ian D wrote:

"John" wrote in message
.. .
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand
why they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or
Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product


This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product


Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating
system?

Thanks,
John


I have that Vantec enclosure. It works with Vista and Win 7. The
specs say XP and above, meaning Vista, and Win 7, and probably
even Win 8, when it's released. If your computer has an eSATA
connector, the Vantec is the better bet as it will be faster than USB.
The Rosewill is USB only. Also, eSATA is bootable, and the
connection from your computer to the drive is straight through,
without any intervening controller. The Vantec's internal controller
is for the USB to SATA conversion. That means it can use any OS
you motherboard supports, with the drive formatted accordingly.

If your computer doesn't have eSATA, but has unused internal
SATA connectors, you can get a cable to connect from SATA to
eSATA connectors on a back slot cover.



Then it shouldn't be a problem. Hot swap is of no interest and I have
read that Esata is in the range of 3X faster than USB2. The motherboard
in this comp supports USB3 but I haven't seen any USB3 hardware and
don't know if it would beat Esata 'in the real world'. So barring a
better price point I probably should go with the Vantec. The unit needs
to support both M$ and Linux for backups and possibly act as a transfer
unit from/to workstation/laptop in the near future.

Both Os's (XP and Linux) have no problems with SATA or USB.

Thanks for your input,
John
  #8  
Old March 13th 11, 01:31 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

On 03/12/2011 11:13 AM, Man-wai Chang wrote:

Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.
I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.


USB 2 support is available on and after WinXP.
You should make sure that its eSATA port really works.


How would I test it?

John
  #9  
Old March 13th 11, 01:47 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Ian D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 333
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS


"John" wrote in message
...
On 03/12/2011 04:11 PM, Paul wrote:
John wrote:
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand
why they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or
Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product


This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product


Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating
system?

Thanks,
John


The components of ESATA a

1) SATA - OSes have had SATA drivers, or the ability to accept a
manufacturer's
SATA driver, for some time. Both Vista and Windows 7, have their own
generic drivers, or in some cases, you can install a driver for the
hardware.
If the OS is an old one, if the hardware has a "compatibility" mode,
you can still use your drive. So in fact, there are plenty of options
here. Even an IDE to SATA adapter, and a SATA to ESATA cable, might just
work.

2) Enhanced transmit and receive levels on the interfaces. This
allows 2 meter cables, instead of 1 meter cables. If you're having
trouble, switch to a shorter cable. This is seldom an issue, so I
include this point, as a means of distinguishing SATA from ESATA.
A tiny difference in electrical levels, so the cable could be made
longer and still work.

3) Hot swap. The driver for the chip doing the ESATA, needs hot swap
capability if you want the disk to be mounted the instant it is plugged
in. If, for any reason, hot swap is not working, you can plug in and
turn on the drive, before the OS boots, and then you can use it. So
a lack of hot swap is not the end of the world. Hot swap is available
with an AHCI driver, but if that is too hard to arrange when needed, you
can also ignore the requirement, and just plug in and start the ESATA
drive, before the OS starts to boot.

In the grand scheme of things, you have little to worry about. Maybe if
you
have really crappy cabling or adapter plates, it'll put up a fight. If
the
computer case comes with an ESATA port on the front, computer case
manufacturers
aren't exactly electrical engineering graduates, and they'll gladly put
defective
connection schemes on the front of your computer. This applies to those
$50 computer cases you buy off Newegg, to build a home computer with. If
you're buying a Dell/HP/Acer/Gateway or the like, they've probably tested
the front connector at least once. It's only home builders that have to
worry.

With SATA cabling, it's not a good idea to bend the cable until it
becomes
kinked. Damaging the insulation, can upset the impedance of the cable.
A slight background error rate may result. If you have problems with a
SATA setup, a cable swap may fix it.

Paul



The case is a new Antec Sonata III 500, you and a few others helped me
select parts for a new XP build in late December, early January of this
year. The front mounted Esata port is connected internally directly to a
SATA block on the motherboard (no kinks ) so hopefully the hardware is
current enough to be satisfactory.

My OS if you check my sent from info is quickly becoming Linux Mint (Julia
10, x686 64 bit). It's a refreshing change from Microsoft but a steep
learning curve.

Hot swapping is of no interest, the enclosure is strictly for back up
purposes. I have read (first hand user tests) that Esata is roughly 3X
faster than USB2 in the real world and the reason I am interested.

I value your opinion and ask: What do you think of the first selection
above? Any better suggestions?

Thanks,
John


For hot swapping, the RAID or AHCI driver for your MB
eSATA controller must be installed. Otherwise, if you
want to use the eSATA drive, it will need to be connected
before powering up the computer. I've found this to be the
case with Asus MBs using both JMicron and Marvell eSATA
controllers.

  #10  
Old March 13th 11, 02:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Esata enclosures vs. host comp's OS

On 03/12/2011 07:47 PM, Ian D wrote:

"John" wrote in message
...
On 03/12/2011 04:11 PM, Paul wrote:
John wrote:
Looking at Esata enclosures for external backup. I don't understand
why they say that they are supported on say up to XP but not Win7 or
Linux?

See the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-167-_-Product



This one says Linux is supported assuming a new enough kernal but also
doesn't mention W7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-179-_-Product



Why isn't W7 mentioned and in fact on one of the reviews at Newegg a
purchaser explicitly says that anything above XP isn't supported.

I mean, SATA is SATA, either the host comp's OS supports SATA or it
doesn't.

What is the deal here? Does the enclosure itself need an operating
system?

Thanks,
John

The components of ESATA a

1) SATA - OSes have had SATA drivers, or the ability to accept a
manufacturer's
SATA driver, for some time. Both Vista and Windows 7, have their own
generic drivers, or in some cases, you can install a driver for the
hardware.
If the OS is an old one, if the hardware has a "compatibility" mode,
you can still use your drive. So in fact, there are plenty of options
here. Even an IDE to SATA adapter, and a SATA to ESATA cable, might just
work.

2) Enhanced transmit and receive levels on the interfaces. This
allows 2 meter cables, instead of 1 meter cables. If you're having
trouble, switch to a shorter cable. This is seldom an issue, so I
include this point, as a means of distinguishing SATA from ESATA.
A tiny difference in electrical levels, so the cable could be made
longer and still work.

3) Hot swap. The driver for the chip doing the ESATA, needs hot swap
capability if you want the disk to be mounted the instant it is plugged
in. If, for any reason, hot swap is not working, you can plug in and
turn on the drive, before the OS boots, and then you can use it. So
a lack of hot swap is not the end of the world. Hot swap is available
with an AHCI driver, but if that is too hard to arrange when needed, you
can also ignore the requirement, and just plug in and start the ESATA
drive, before the OS starts to boot.

In the grand scheme of things, you have little to worry about. Maybe
if you
have really crappy cabling or adapter plates, it'll put up a fight.
If the
computer case comes with an ESATA port on the front, computer case
manufacturers
aren't exactly electrical engineering graduates, and they'll gladly put
defective
connection schemes on the front of your computer. This applies to those
$50 computer cases you buy off Newegg, to build a home computer with. If
you're buying a Dell/HP/Acer/Gateway or the like, they've probably
tested
the front connector at least once. It's only home builders that have to
worry.

With SATA cabling, it's not a good idea to bend the cable until it
becomes
kinked. Damaging the insulation, can upset the impedance of the cable.
A slight background error rate may result. If you have problems with a
SATA setup, a cable swap may fix it.

Paul



The case is a new Antec Sonata III 500, you and a few others helped me
select parts for a new XP build in late December, early January of
this year. The front mounted Esata port is connected internally
directly to a SATA block on the motherboard (no kinks ) so hopefully
the hardware is current enough to be satisfactory.

My OS if you check my sent from info is quickly becoming Linux Mint
(Julia 10, x686 64 bit). It's a refreshing change from Microsoft but a
steep learning curve.

Hot swapping is of no interest, the enclosure is strictly for back up
purposes. I have read (first hand user tests) that Esata is roughly 3X
faster than USB2 in the real world and the reason I am interested.

I value your opinion and ask: What do you think of the first selection
above? Any better suggestions?

Thanks,
John


For hot swapping, the RAID or AHCI driver for your MB
eSATA controller must be installed. Otherwise, if you
want to use the eSATA drive, it will need to be connected
before powering up the computer. I've found this to be the
case with Asus MBs using both JMicron and Marvell eSATA
controllers.



That is good to know.

The work station is a new (home build first of the year) with Asus MB
running both XP pro and Linux Mint 10 with USB2 & 3 as well as Esata. My
wife's laptop is an older Dell running XP pro. I need the unit to be
able to back up both and the Dell doesn't have an Esata port that I am
aware of ... but it does have a lot of ports ... so I guess I should
have a look!

In any event the Dell definitely has USB2 so given the Dell's age (about
3 to 4 years) both modes will probably be needed.

Thanks,
John
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PC Enclosures Geoff Homebuilt PC's 5 December 19th 06 05:33 AM
iSCSI Enclosures Will Storage & Hardrives 1 August 16th 05 02:43 AM
FC-AL backplanes/enclosures RPR Storage & Hardrives 2 February 22nd 05 07:41 PM
comp.sys.amd RFD to improve comp.sys.intel? AJ Intel 0 January 27th 05 08:10 PM
enclosures fw for burners Anita Cook Cdr 1 July 1st 03 05:13 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.