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Should I go Athlon64 or Barton?



 
 
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  #12  
Old September 7th 04, 08:54 PM
Wes Newell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:38:05 +0000, Yousuf Khan wrote:

JK wrote:
Franklin wrote:

Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.


An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.


Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

Now that's a simple one to answer. He can quadrupple his speed with a
simple $50 cpu upgrade. They're cheap and most people don't need anything
faster. I sure don't. I just want it.:-) My old XP ssytem works just about
as well as my new A64 system for what I do most of the time.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  #13  
Old September 8th 04, 12:02 AM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin
wrote:

Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.


Considering that you were getting by with the Duron 700, and
your modest needs, there isn't any good justification for
spending a lot more for the Athlon 64.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.


True, anything you buy will use a lot more power, create a
lot more heat.



A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.


Actually it's a tough call there, typically the faster CPUs
for a given platform maintain their value better than the
slower CPUs for the next-faster platform... someday somone
will be looking to upgrade their CPU and will want near the
fastest their platform can support. As for the rest of the
parts, they'll be worth far less than you paid by the time
they show up on your doorstep or when you leave the store
with them.


Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?


No, and you'd be buying the less mature platform,
potentially more issues to deal with.


Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?


Yes, more expensive motherboard and heatsink (if you get a
good/quiet heatsink), though memory prices aren't much
different unless you buy into the hype that everyone should
use high-end, premium priced memory. Any decent name-brand
value-grade memory should be fine, will be a loss of a
percent or two of performance, but the cost savings could
easily more than offset that with a faster CPU or more
memory capacity, hard drive, video card, etc.

Best bang for the buck for yor needs would be something
like:

Athlon XP ~ $80
(add a bit for retail Athlon w/heatsink or good 3rd parth
'sink is addt'l $20 somewhere like http://www.svc.com when
on sale (like Thermalright SLK-947).

nForce2 motherboard ~ $65

Sparkle 300W PSU FSP300-60PN ~ $35

2 x 512MB PC3200 ~ $150


You would have somewhat higher performance with the Athlon
64, but for your present needs you won't benefit enough to
notice. As for "future" use, a 2 or more years from now
either will again be slow compared to newest CPUs at that
time, only buy what you need when you need it.
  #14  
Old September 8th 04, 05:21 AM
gaffo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Paul Hopwood wrote:

(Al Dykes) wrote:


Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
machine.



I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in
a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than
top-of-the-range today.

If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get
the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than
capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit
more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the
best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the
top level.


Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
and good sound.



Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.




yes - like I did this summer. upgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon
barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-burner/cd-burner, 22
inch Sony refurb CRT.............800 bucks. 200 for the monitor

600 bucks for a midrange computer is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant
for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the
athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things).


But I suggest you buy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs you can buy
cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram
and 1-gig vid ram, blueray-burner.

--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001
  #15  
Old September 8th 04, 08:02 AM
Tony Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin
wrote:

Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.

A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence?


If you buy a computer you are buying into obsolescence, regardless of
what you put in the thing.

Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.


The difference at resale time is likely to be rather negligible.

Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?


It will be faster, though will you notice it? Perhaps a more
important question though, is the price difference small enough that
you might as well go for the higher-end chip?

Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?


More expensive motherboard, yes. Memory shouldn't really be more
expensive, in some cases it might actually be cheaper. A Barton 2500+
in an nForce2 board (such as Asus' A7N8X) will use dual-channel
memory, ie buy it in pairs. An Athlon64 2800+ (regardless of
motherboard) will use single channel memory. Price shouldn't change
much though, except maybe if you want 2GB+ or more in the system.


Here's a quick breakdown of prices for you from www.newegg.com.
There's no particular need for any other component to be different
between these two systems, so I'll just list the processor,
motherboard and memory.

Barton:
AthlonXP 2500+ $93
Asus A7N8X $72
2 x 256MB PC3200 $83
-----------
Total $248

Athlon64:
Athlon64 2800+ $146
MSI K8N Neo-FSR $107
512MB PC3200 $69
-----------
Total $322


Depending on the exact config of your systems the numbers might be
skewed a bit one way or the other, but you're most likely looking at a
difference of somewhere around $75. Personally I would say that this
$75 is money well spent for pretty much anyone except those on the
tightest budget.

The extra performance isn't going to blow you away by any means, but
it'll be there, and there will probably be some application down the
line where you'll appreciate the extra performance of the Athlon64.
Add to that the potential to run 64-bit software and operation systems
should the need (or desire) arise and the tiny extra added security
afforded by the NX-bit in the Athlon64 (helps prevent buffer overflow
attacks, a la MS Blaster, Sasser, etc.) and it makes sense to me.


On the flip side, if you decide that the extra cost is not worth it
for you and opt to stick for a Barton chip, you might want to check
out the 2600+. The above mentioned Newegg prices have the AthlonXP
2600+ for $95, or only $2 more than the 2500+.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca
  #16  
Old September 8th 04, 11:15 AM
Raj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I say hold out and wait for A64 price drop, and when the new 939 mobo's do
down in price, If you want try a XP-mobile 2500 pair it up with NFS-7 get
that baby oced to 2500 MHZ , get dual channel ddr 400 ( you can also use it
in you later A64 rig) these chips are known to par with P4 3.2 EE at that
config and you can use the extra money for a better vid card or larger
hardrive (maybe SATA Raptor@ 10000k RPM ) :P just my 2 cents.
"gaffo" wrote in message
m...
Paul Hopwood wrote:

(Al Dykes) wrote:


Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
machine.



I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in
a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than
top-of-the-range today.

If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get
the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than
capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit
more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the
best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the
top level.


Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
and good sound.



Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.




yes - like I did this summer. upgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon
barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-burner/cd-burner, 22
inch Sony refurb CRT.............800 bucks. 200 for the monitor

600 bucks for a midrange computer is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant
for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the
athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things).


But I suggest you buy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs you can buy
cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram
and 1-gig vid ram, blueray-burner.

--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly
unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may
say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense Department
Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion
against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being
named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote
for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's
important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to
use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B.
Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons
had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back,
if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad
days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001



  #17  
Old September 8th 04, 11:58 AM
jack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

gaffo wrote:
snip all

Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your
political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands
simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too
large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political
statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is
populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a
few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?

J.

  #18  
Old September 8th 04, 02:54 PM
John Fryatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Franklin" wrote in message
...
Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.

A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.

Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?

Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?


Well, if you've been happy with a Duron 700 up until fairly recently I
suspect a new machine based on an Athlon 3000, for example, will do you
pretty well.
You will probably pay top money just now for Athlon 64 as it's the latest
trendy thing, and the sweet spot for price/performance is likely a step or
two back from the leading edge of technology.
When you buy any computer you are buying into obsolescence, to some extent.
AMD already have the next CPU after Athlon 64 on the drawing board I expect,
as do Intel have the P5 or whatever in the design stage.
My feeling is to buy for what you need now, trying to keep an eye out for
long-term life but not be a slave to it. Upgradeability is limited by new
developments. Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
Express, so you can't do it. Similarly with processors, chances are you'd
need a new motherboard anyway to make use of new generations of CPU.



  #19  
Old September 8th 04, 03:10 PM
JK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



John Fryatt wrote:

"Franklin" wrote in message
...
Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.

A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.

Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?

Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?


Well, if you've been happy with a Duron 700 up until fairly recently I
suspect a new machine based on an Athlon 3000, for example, will do you
pretty well.
You will probably pay top money just now for Athlon 64


Top money? An Athl 64 3000+ is only around $160, which is around the
price of a Pentium 4 2.8 ghz, and only around $50 more than an
Athlon XP3200+. The motherboard for an Athlon 64 is around $25
more than a comparable one for an Athlon XP. So an Athlon 64
doesn't have to be very expensive.

as it's the latest
trendy thing, and the sweet spot for price/performance is likely a step or
two back from the leading edge of technology.
When you buy any computer you are buying into obsolescence, to some extent.
AMD already have the next CPU after Athlon 64 on the drawing board I expect,
as do Intel have the P5 or whatever in the design stage.


It will be nice to buy a pc with a dual core processor a few years from now.
They might be out in a year, but will probably be quite expensive when
first introduced.


My feeling is to buy for what you need now, trying to keep an eye out for
long-term life but not be a slave to it. Upgradeability is limited by new
developments. Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
Express, so you can't do it.


He is not a gamer. AGP will be fine for him. The benefits of PCI Express
will be in the future for very expensive video cards.

Similarly with processors, chances are you'd
need a new motherboard anyway to make use of new generations of CPU.


  #20  
Old September 9th 04, 04:03 AM
gaffo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

jack wrote:
gaffo wrote:
snip all

Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your
political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands
simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too
large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political
statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is
populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a
few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?

J.



I understand. Tony Hill said same.

Since you seem to be in agreement in my political views - then you may
understand that these are Dark Times - not just for some of us but for
the every existance of Liberty and America as we know it. I see Germany
1933, and as such I have a compulsion as an American Citizen and Patriot
to speak out in any and all ways. A duty if you will.


Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.

After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless of if
Liberty dies that day or lives.

That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow like
Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry, if there were
less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig would be alot
smaller.........


peace be with you.


--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001
 




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