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Corrupt NTFS filesystem



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 24th 06, 08:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:57:15 GMT, VWWall
wrote:

What is the maximum file size with FAT32?


4GB minus two bytes.


Uh oh.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #12  
Old October 24th 06, 09:06 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 04:15:28 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

However, even with FAT 32, I still get two device drivers per partition


THERE ARE NO SEPARATE DEVICE DRIVERS.


Then why am I seeing two entries per partition n NT Defrag and Perfect
Disk, but not My computer or Disk Management?

in NT Defrag and Perfect Disk. If you load NT Defrag,
how many devices do you see per partition?


Cant readily try that, I run XP on everything.


I meant the degragger for XP.

With the Disk Defragmenter in XP I have just one entry per partition.


Then there is obviously something really weird going on with my
installation, whether the filesystem is NTFS or FAT32.

I asked my son to check his XP intallation, but he is too busy
making money. I have to catch him sitting in front of his machine.


You should chain him to the machine.


Then he would not make as much money as he does. He is an independent
residential mortgage broker and every time he puts his phone to his
ear, he makes money.



--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #13  
Old October 24th 06, 10:05 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
VWWall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

Citizen Bob wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:57:15 GMT, VWWall
wrote:

What is the maximum file size with FAT32?


4GB minus two bytes.


Uh oh.


Uh yes--unless you want to argue about one byte!

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463

quote
You cannot create a file larger than (2^32)-1 bytes (this is one byte
less than 4 GB) on a FAT32 partition.
/quote

Other Microsoft sources say "4 GB minus 2 bytes". Take your pick!

"...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."


Applies particularly to Microsoft articles! :-)

--
Virg Wall
  #14  
Old October 24th 06, 10:38 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
kony
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Posts: 7,416
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On 24 Oct 2006 12:07:53 -0700, wrote:

VWWall wrote:
Citizen Bob wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 01:02:18 -0700,
wrote:

FAT32 has some strange issues


What is the maximum file size with FAT32?


4GB minus two bytes.


FAT32 max partition size is 30G, which is its biggest limitation. NTFS
is a much more secure and reliable fs as well as being more fully
featured.


This is generally untrue.

UNLESS you set encryption or permissions, NTFS gains nothing
security wise. Maybe he would, but the security is not
better just because of NTFS.

As for reliability, not really. The vast majority of
problems with FAT32, would effect NTFS as well.


Eg FAT has 2 copies of the FAT, and when an error ocurs, as
they do, scandisk just picks one at random and overwrites the other.


If you have errors, fix the problem.


50% of the time tis works... and 50% of the time you lose data. NTFS
has 3 copies, so this problem doesnt happen. FAT has no password
security system, ntfs does, so fat is 100% accessible to viri and any
user.


Where does a virus tend to put itself? OS partition. Are
you seriously claiming everyone with NTFS on Winxp, has
never had a virus on their OS partition?



Maybe you dont need the features of ntfs and fat32's limitations arent
a problem. FAT32 does give more OS options than ntfs, handy if dual
booting, running dos apps, or swapping discs with winDOS systems.


I'm not suggesting FAT32 is better than NTFS, but
practically speaking everyone repeats the marketing blurb
you did, too, without really considering the application,
whether it'll matter.

  #15  
Old October 24th 06, 10:45 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,416
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:10:24 GMT, (Citizen Bob)
wrote:


I know, I should reinstall Win2K from scratch. But I refuse to do it
because 1) I have close to 100 installed applications, many of which I
do not even recall the customizations. It would take months to
reinstall all that software to the same configuration I now have; 2) I
refuse to cave in to the absurd demands of Windows having to be
reinstalled every 6 months just because MS won't spend the money to
fix it. Maybe I will install Vista from scratch, but not XP or Win2K.



Again you are being silly.

There is no more reason to install Vista from scratch than
Win2k. There is no reason to install win2k every six
months, but rather what WAS ALREADY TOLD TO YOU.

Do a clean Win2k install. Did anyone suggest "reinstall
every 6 months"? No. You need to focus on what WAS
written, not on wild presumptions.

So you have a lot of apps installed? So what? Think
nobody else does? All you have to do is make a clean
installation, export the appropriate registry keys and copy
over the installation folders and shortcuts for the start
menu. Will it work 100% of the time? No, there will be a
few things that need more attention, but since nobody was
suggesting you just delete your entire existing
installation, it's not as though this information is
suddenly gone and can't be referred to, to get any rogue
apps working.

Something else you can do is compare the clean
installation's system and driver files to your old one- the
apps should not need special drivers in most cases, save for
a few dealing with specific hardware.
  #16  
Old October 24th 06, 10:47 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

Citizen Bob wrote
Rod Speed wrote


However, even with FAT 32, I still get two device drivers per partition


THERE ARE NO SEPARATE DEVICE DRIVERS.


Then why am I seeing two entries per partition n NT Defrag
and Perfect Disk, but not My computer or Disk Management?


They are getting confused by something. It isnt currently clear by what.

in NT Defrag and Perfect Disk. If you load NT Defrag,
how many devices do you see per partition?


Cant readily try that, I run XP on everything.


I meant the degragger for XP.


With the Disk Defragmenter in XP I have just one entry per partition.


Then there is obviously something really weird going on with
my installation, whether the filesystem is NTFS or FAT32.


Yes, but since you that showed up after the stupid raid
system was installed, its almost certainly been done by that.

I asked my son to check his XP intallation, but he is too busy
making money. I have to catch him sitting in front of his machine.


You should chain him to the machine.


Then he would not make as much money as he does.


True. There are always some downsides.

He is an independent residential mortgage broker and
every time he puts his phone to his ear, he makes money.


Just get him a cordless phone so he can still do that even when chained to the PC.


  #17  
Old October 24th 06, 10:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

wrote
VWWall wrote
Citizen Bob wrote
wrote

FAT32 has some strange issues


What is the maximum file size with FAT32?


4GB minus two bytes.


FAT32 max partition size is 30G,


Nope. XP wont create one bigger than that but it
works fine if you use something else to create it.

which is its biggest limitation.


Nope, the biggest limitation is actually the 4G file size limit.

NTFS is a much more secure and reliable fs


Thats arguable when NT/2K/XP claims that its unformatted
when its still usable in something else like knoppix etc.

as well as being more fully featured.


Yes, lots more secure and much more flexible with encryption etc.

Eg FAT has 2 copies of the FAT, and when an error ocurs, as
they do, scandisk just picks one at random and overwrites the other.


It isnt done at random.

50% of the time tis works... and 50% of the time you lose data.


Its much more complicated than that.

NTFS has 3 copies, so this problem doesnt happen.


Nice theory. Pity about the reality that NT/2K/XP can just decide
that the partition is unformatted when other stuff can read it fine.

FAT has no password security system, ntfs does,
so fat is 100% accessible to viri and any user.


Maybe you dont need the features of ntfs and fat32's limitations arent
a problem. FAT32 does give more OS options than ntfs, handy if dual
booting, running dos apps, or swapping discs with winDOS systems.


And much more viable if you want to be able to
write to that partition from both Win and Linux etc.


  #18  
Old October 25th 06, 07:24 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:47:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

They are getting confused by something. It isnt currently clear by what.


If I change the drive letter, it takes effect immediately for one of
the device drivers (the one with the label) but not the other. I have
to reboot to get it to take effect on the other one.

There is something going on with what Windows calls a "generic
device". I see it in the Install/Remove Hardware utility. Sometimes
when I add a partition in Disk Management, it attempts to assign the
next drive letter in the alphabetic sequence, but can't because "that
letter is already in use" or somesuch. But there is no such device to
be found. If I then remove the generic device with the Add/Remove
Hardware, it frees up the hidden letter and I can use it.

Also, in the Registry there is key that shows Mounted Devices. It has
an entry for the hidden drive letter that can't be used. If I clear
out that key, it becomes available.

Yes, but since you that showed up after the stupid raid
system was installed, its almost certainly been done by that.


When I built this machine and did an IPU to install Win2K, I ran it
very briefly without that RAID contraption. But I did not use the
defragger so I do not know if there were two device drivers per
partition. I then installed the RAID unit and kept it for about 6
months. The corrupt NTFS partition problem showed up immediately.

I contacted the Product Line Manager in Taiwan and she was eager to
work with me to find the source of the problem. But after a short
period she turned cold - I suspect she discovered that there was
something radically wrong with her product. I contacted my vendor and
he contacted the US importer and they decided that the product was not
functioning properly, so I was given a full cash refund. That's when I
began making clones for backup.

He is an independent residential mortgage broker and
every time he puts his phone to his ear, he makes money.


Just get him a cordless phone so he can still do that even when chained to the PC.


He has a cordless phone, and it is constantly in use.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #19  
Old October 25th 06, 07:26 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:05:05 GMT, VWWall
wrote:

4GB minus two bytes.


Uh oh.


Uh yes


When I learned this, I immediately converted back to NTFS. It will
take a couple days to see if swapping back and forth has cured the
problem, as Rod suggested it might. I sure as Hell hope so.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #20  
Old October 25th 06, 07:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:38:05 -0400, kony wrote:

I'm not suggesting FAT32 is better than NTFS, but
practically speaking everyone repeats the marketing blurb
you did, too, without really considering the application,
whether it'll matter.


The 4GB limitation on file size is a killer for me. I do a lot of
video work and a 4GB file is not unheard of.



--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
 




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