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#71
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Tony Hill wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:41:26 GMT, Johannes H Andersen wrote: JK wrote: "fussiness" ? Just choose the proper memory. "problems with new motherboards." Choose a decent brand of motherboard. If you choose a brand that makes low quality motherboards, it is your fault, not the fault of AMD. I don't choose any motherboard at the moment since I already have a well performing P4 machine. But I've noticed some teething problems reported for boards for the AMD64, see e.g. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...t%26start%3D50 Huh?! Your link points to a message discussing two very specific problem. The first is strictly a software issue and doesn't even mention a hardware platform, the second is a very specific issue with Intel's C0 stepping of Prescott P4's and Celeron-D chips! "AMD is beating Intel in desktop performance by such a large margin." As for benchmarks, even the site you quoted is not a clear win at all for AMD64. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=6 Forget about P4EE, nobody buys them for their own money. Compare e.g. Intel Northwood 3.2 and a AMD64 3200+ . AMD64 win some, but the Intel win other important benchmarks hands down. Just click on the subsequent pages on the site... Fine, let's do a direct comparison of which chip is faster and by what percentage (anything less than 1% I'll consider a tie as that's well within the margin of error) AMD Athlon64 3200+ wins: Business Winstone 2004 (11.5%) Content Creation Winstone 2004 (7.7%) Unreal Tournament Flyby (8.0%) Unreal Tournament Botmatch (18.0%) Warcraft 3 (2.4%) Quake 3 (4.2%) Wolfenstein (1.8%) Jedi Knight (2.8%) Quake 3 Source Compile (14.5%) Intel "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz wins: DivX encoding (21.2%) Aquamark CPU (9.1%) 3DStudio (23.2%) Lightwave (17.6%) Tied: Aquamark FPS Gunmetal So the Athlon64 wins more tests, while when the P4 wins it tends to do so by a larger margin. If we average all the tests out That is not reasonable to do, as a business for example that only runs business software doesn't care how fast Divx encoding, 3D Studio, or Lightwave runs. I don't care how fast those applications would run on my pc, since I don't use them, and don't plan to use then. we get that the P4 is faster by 0.013% (ie they're tied). Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. Soooo... long story short, if you want to do lots of media encoding or 3D rendering, according to this test at least, you should stick with the P4. Only if you must use 32 bit software. When using 64 bit software, I expect the Athlon 64 to be a great performer for those applications. If you want to play games, do general office tasks or compile code, you should go for an Athlon64. You should also stick with the Athlon64 if 64-bit code is important to you, or if you want the extra security offered by non-executable data pages. And finally, sticking with an Athlon64 will also shave a small amount off the price of your system. So where is the better value in the Intel system? ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#72
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Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. So you're going to choose a el-cheapo Athlon 64 board to go against a very high-end P4 board and conclude that it's cheaper to build AMD? Ummmmm, no, but we can conclude you are biased against Intel, and that is the ONLY conclusion that can be reached. -Dave |
#73
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JK wrote: Tony Hill wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:41:26 GMT, Johannes H Andersen wrote: JK wrote: "fussiness" ? Just choose the proper memory. "problems with new motherboards." Choose a decent brand of motherboard. If you choose a brand that makes low quality motherboards, it is your fault, not the fault of AMD. I don't choose any motherboard at the moment since I already have a well performing P4 machine. But I've noticed some teething problems reported for boards for the AMD64, see e.g. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...t%26start%3D50 Huh?! Your link points to a message discussing two very specific problem. The first is strictly a software issue and doesn't even mention a hardware platform, the second is a very specific issue with Intel's C0 stepping of Prescott P4's and Celeron-D chips! "AMD is beating Intel in desktop performance by such a large margin." As for benchmarks, even the site you quoted is not a clear win at all for AMD64. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=6 Forget about P4EE, nobody buys them for their own money. Compare e.g. Intel Northwood 3.2 and a AMD64 3200+ . AMD64 win some, but the Intel win other important benchmarks hands down. Just click on the subsequent pages on the site... Fine, let's do a direct comparison of which chip is faster and by what percentage (anything less than 1% I'll consider a tie as that's well within the margin of error) AMD Athlon64 3200+ wins: Business Winstone 2004 (11.5%) Content Creation Winstone 2004 (7.7%) Unreal Tournament Flyby (8.0%) Unreal Tournament Botmatch (18.0%) Warcraft 3 (2.4%) Quake 3 (4.2%) Wolfenstein (1.8%) Jedi Knight (2.8%) Quake 3 Source Compile (14.5%) Intel "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz wins: DivX encoding (21.2%) Aquamark CPU (9.1%) 3DStudio (23.2%) Lightwave (17.6%) Tied: Aquamark FPS Gunmetal So the Athlon64 wins more tests, while when the P4 wins it tends to do so by a larger margin. If we average all the tests out That is not reasonable to do, as a business for example that only runs business software doesn't care how fast Divx encoding, 3D Studio, or Lightwave runs. I don't care how fast those applications would run on my pc, since I don't use them, and don't plan to use then. OK, pick your special application, but then your statement: "Now AMD is beating Intel in desktop performance by such a large margin." is unduly generalizing from the specifics. The whole point in increasing processor performance is to venture into new application arenas such as photo processing and video. Office computing such as word processing etc. is a problem that is already satisfactory solved with yesterdays processors. |
#74
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Dave C. wrote:
Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. So you're going to choose a el-cheapo Athlon 64 board to go against a very high-end P4 board and conclude that it's cheaper to build AMD? Ummmmm, no, but we can conclude you are biased against Intel, and that is the ONLY conclusion that can be reached. -Dave Even if you pick a fairly good nForce3 250-board you STILL get it cheaper than a P4 system and if you are a gamer nothing beats an Athlon64. |
#75
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:14:13 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
wrote: OK, pick your special application, but then your statement: "Now AMD is beating Intel in desktop performance by such a large margin." is unduly generalizing from the specifics. The whole point in increasing processor performance is to venture into new application arenas such as photo processing and video. Office computing such as word processing etc. is a problem that is already satisfactory solved with yesterdays processors. Be that as it may, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've done photo editing (and have few plans on ever doing so again), while I use "office"-ish applications on pretty much a daily basis. I'll take a small improvement on something I do every day over a large improvement on something I do, at most, once a year. So, is Office computing "satisfactory solved" with yesterday's processors? That is a tougher question to answer, but I remember about 10 years ago that people said a 486 was plenty for any office computing user. Back that it Office computing was solved plenty well on a 486, and yet now a 1GHz PC seems rather slow while doing typical Office tasks (yes I do use 1GHz PCs at work, and yes they do seem slow on such tasks when compared to my home PC). Sure, part of it is just software bloat, but a lot of it is increased features. An application that is "solved" today using yesterdays processors will require today's processors in order to be solved tomorrow. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#76
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:23:14 -0400, "Dave C." wrote:
Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. So you're going to choose a el-cheapo Athlon 64 board to go against a very high-end P4 board and conclude that it's cheaper to build AMD? Ummmmm, no, but we can conclude you are biased against Intel, and that is the ONLY conclusion that can be reached. -Dave *I* did not chose the boards, please clean off your eyeballs before making such comments. To quote what I JUST wrote above "The motherboard cost for THE BOARDS USED IN THIS TEST should slightly favor AMD" (emphasis added). Sure, you could get a MUCH cheaper board for the P4, but the performance would also drop, invalidating all the comparative results. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#77
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:23:14 -0400, Dave C. wrote:
Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. So you're going to choose a el-cheapo Athlon 64 board to go against a very high-end P4 board and conclude that it's cheaper to build AMD? Ummmmm, no, but we can conclude you are biased against Intel, and that is the ONLY conclusion that can be reached. -Dave Ah, so an "el-cheapo" Athlon board kicks the crap outta a "high-end" P4 board. Hmm, I think there is a message in here somewhere. -- Keith |
#78
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:36:41 +0300, assaarpa wrote:
cares about cost? If I wanted to pay more for a processor than I did for the last car I purchased, then YES, the benchmarks might support your point You must have a pretty ****ty car. I would guess so! I had a '70 AMC Gremlin, and *it* cost $2500 (in 1970 dollars). ;-) -- Keith |
#79
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Dave forget it....these are AMD toadies...they no nothing of reality,
they live in a make believe world, held together with bits of bytes that never stays up very long. The only reason why AMD exists is that there can be no monopoly, so the token competition must be maintained. Much like the AMD NG's , they need to be around for the sake of laughter. "Dave C." wrote in message ... Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. So you're going to choose a el-cheapo Athlon 64 board to go against a very high-end P4 board and conclude that it's cheaper to build AMD? Ummmmm, no, but we can conclude you are biased against Intel, and that is the ONLY conclusion that can be reached. -Dave |
#80
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JK wrote:
Tony Hill wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:41:26 GMT, Johannes H Andersen wrote: JK wrote: "fussiness" ? Just choose the proper memory. "problems with new motherboards." Choose a decent brand of motherboard. If you choose a brand that makes low quality motherboards, it is your fault, not the fault of AMD. I don't choose any motherboard at the moment since I already have a well performing P4 machine. But I've noticed some teething problems reported for boards for the AMD64, see e.g. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...t%26start%3D50 Huh?! Your link points to a message discussing two very specific problem. The first is strictly a software issue and doesn't even mention a hardware platform, the second is a very specific issue with Intel's C0 stepping of Prescott P4's and Celeron-D chips! "AMD is beating Intel in desktop performance by such a large margin." As for benchmarks, even the site you quoted is not a clear win at all for AMD64. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=6 Forget about P4EE, nobody buys them for their own money. Compare e.g. Intel Northwood 3.2 and a AMD64 3200+ . AMD64 win some, but the Intel win other important benchmarks hands down. Just click on the subsequent pages on the site... Fine, let's do a direct comparison of which chip is faster and by what percentage (anything less than 1% I'll consider a tie as that's well within the margin of error) AMD Athlon64 3200+ wins: Business Winstone 2004 (11.5%) Content Creation Winstone 2004 (7.7%) Unreal Tournament Flyby (8.0%) Unreal Tournament Botmatch (18.0%) Warcraft 3 (2.4%) Quake 3 (4.2%) Wolfenstein (1.8%) Jedi Knight (2.8%) Quake 3 Source Compile (14.5%) Intel "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz wins: DivX encoding (21.2%) Aquamark CPU (9.1%) 3DStudio (23.2%) Lightwave (17.6%) Tied: Aquamark FPS Gunmetal So the Athlon64 wins more tests, while when the P4 wins it tends to do so by a larger margin. If we average all the tests out That is not reasonable to do, as a business for example that only runs business software doesn't care how fast Divx encoding, 3D Studio, or Lightwave runs. I don't care how fast those applications would run on my pc, since I don't use them, and don't plan to use then. we get that the P4 is faster by 0.013% (ie they're tied). Now if we throw price into the equation, we get that the Athlon64 3200+ costing $204 while the "Northwood" P4 3.2GHz will set you back $244 (prices care of www.newegg.com) The motherboard cost for boards used in this test should slightly favor AMD (VIA K8T800 based socket 754 board vs. Intel i875P based Socket 478 board) while all other components in this test were identical. Soooo... long story short, if you want to do lots of media encoding or 3D rendering, according to this test at least, you should stick with the P4. Only if you must use 32 bit software. When using 64 bit software, I expect the Athlon 64 to be a great performer for those applications. Out of curiosity, what do you base that 'expectation' on? |
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