New build questions

I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.


If you're going to run VMs, I would get a processor with
VT-X (easy) and one with EPT (Extended Page Tables). That would
then make the machine a candidate for the desktop version of
Hyper-V, if the need ever arises. It's basically a matter
of making your hardware as "VM friendly" as possible. Sure,
you can dream up a single software solution, that doesn't
need anything, but you could be restricted by your hardware
choice later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extende...ed_Page_Tables

You can start shopping here.

http://ark.intel.com/

OK, here is a 65W i5, four core, with EPT and VT-X.

http://ark.intel.com/products/75037/...up-to-3_20-GHz

The Passmark rating is 6004 at 2.7GHz, for 4430S.
Compared to a little over 10000 for a 4770K. My E8400
dual core 3GHz, is 2100, so these processors are three
to five times faster than mine. Passmark is a multithreaded
benchmark (giving some idea how much faster video transcoding
or rendering might be).

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

*******

You can do a "Search by CPU" here. To get some idea
how many motherboards take a 4430S. The product names
all seem to have Z87 in them. Like "Z87 Deluxe".

http://support.asus.com/cpu.aspx?SLanguage=en

And here's an example of a Z87 based board. There is also
a version of this, that includes a Wifi adapter built-in.
But costs you $25 more, so it's not exactly a bargain.
This is the one without Wifi.

http://www.etstore.co.uk/itemdesc.asp?ic=109039&eq=&Tp=

And there is an example of a 4430S. It's a Haswell processor,
which means one stage of voltage regulation is inside the
processor. The portion on the motherboard, that looks
like a VCore regulator, really isn't a VCore regulator, and
is all for show. The regulator around the CPU socket, converts
+12V from the power supply, into +2.4V. That enters the CPU, where
a switching converter (thin film type technology), makes the 1.0V
or lower for the core. I'm not really sure what all the flap-doodle
around the socket is for any more. It doesn't need to be quite
as fancy (like, the VCore circuit no longer needs to support
multiple voltages, and can just output a steady 2.4V - and since
the CPU regulator takes care of things, there is not even a need
for tight regulation).

http://www.netstoredirect.com/intel-...901217804.html

Now, when I look up CM8064601465803 on ark.intel.com, it says "Tray",
so that particular store won't be providing a heatsink/fan with
the CPU purchase. It won't be coming in a big blue box. There is no
boxed part number for the processor, implying it was intended
for OEM computer builds. Not home builders.

It turns out, finding a decent cooler could be the hard
part. This one is cheap, but doesn't have good hold-downs.
There is one for three times the price, that has better
mechanical design. But then you're paying roughly
half the price of the motherboard, for a cooler.

RR-VTPS-28PK-R1 Cooler Master Vortex Plus

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Maste.../dp/B003OEMMBO

Cooler Master used to have a couple nice properties. Mine
has a backing plate and screw based installation. That one
doesn't. Mine also had a "standard" cooling fan, so when the
fan broke while I was cleaning it, an ordinary case fan
could be substituted. That one also appears to use
a standard fan.

If you were to buy the 4430 CPU, instead of the 4430S,
the 4430 comes in a boxed configuration, and includes
the Intel push-pin style cooler. But the 4430 is rated
84W TDP, versus the 65W TDP of the 4430S. I picked the
65W one, to save power and require less fan to cool it.

You might also be able to get an Intel cooler off Ebay.
But for the push-pin ones, if the previous owner abused
them, one of the pins could be bent and relatively hard
to use. The plastic pins aren't really meant for a lot
of mount and unmount cycles.

This is an example of an Intel push pin cooler, the kind
that would be in a 4430 84W boxed processor. Anyone using
a third-party cooler, might have one of these to sell.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Heatsi...77#ht_18wt_884

Have fun,
Paul

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:13:04 -0500, Paul wrote:

Mark wrote:
I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.

-- snip long and useful post :-) --

Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time
I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the
same or cheaper so it looks good.

If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested
too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size
ATX mobos.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:13:04 -0500, Paul wrote:

Mark wrote:
I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.

-- snip long and useful post :-) --

Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time
I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the
same or cheaper so it looks good.

If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested
too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size
ATX mobos.

I haven't bought a case in a while. To keep me from building
more computers, I force myself to recycle the cases. So I have
to throw away a motherboard, before I can install a new one :-)

My last case was an Antec, a case that looks like the successor
to the Sonata. It was OK, but the metal wasn't as heavy as the older
ones I've got.

For power supplies, I just sort them by reputation on Newegg,
to get some idea. (I.e. Use the customer reviews, to spot
the lemons.) Once you see a model you like, you can buy it
somewhere else.

I always buy "case without supply" and buy a supply separately.
That allows shopping for something half decent.

Paul

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:25:04 +0000, Mark
wrote:

I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.
For components including cases and power supplies, I usually look at
Maximum PC for up to date info...............

On 2014-02-11, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:25:04 +0000, Mark
wrote:

I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a
bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need
plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy
to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost
adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory.

Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable
and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean
no fans but all fans must be controllable.

I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the
motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided
on that.

Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC.
I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available
here.
For components including cases and power supplies, I usually look at
Maximum PC for up to date info...............

I have an Antec 280 with my z77 mb which replaced a 3 gen old mb
& Antec sonata. Hd planned to get a Corsair but it had a "hump"
at the top for the controls/buttons; I needed a flat top so that my
Mac Mini can sit on top & not use up any desk space.

Love these new cases that don't need tools for install of components,
with the exception of the motherboard. Whatever case you get, look
carefully at the usb 3 connector for the front plugs & any cable that
came with the "usb3" front plugs preinstalled. My usb3 front is
useless for usb3 as I had bent some pins on the motherboard part since
it was facing horizontally in plane with the mb; only way for me to
fix was to remove the mb from the case, rebend the pins then plug in
the front usb3 cable prior to installing the mb onto the case! Still
worked for usb2 tho & "some day....".

Got a Corsair 650 single rail ps as I had thought that I needed to
figure out what to connect for the multi-rail type ps to "even" things
out, which wasn't true......

On 10/02/2014 11:14 AM, Mark wrote:
Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time
I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the
same or cheaper so it looks good.

If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested
too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size
ATX mobos.

You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the
component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the
parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components:

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and
you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines
properly.

Yousuf Khan

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:10:07 -0500, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 10/02/2014 11:14 AM, Mark wrote:
Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time
I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the
same or cheaper so it looks good.

If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested
too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size
ATX mobos.

You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the
component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the
parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components:

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a
budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how
much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait
until prices drop.

Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and
you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines
properly.

I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How
are they on power consumption vs performance, for example?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 09:38:00 +0000, Mark
wrote:

You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the
component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the
parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components:

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a
budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how
much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait
until prices drop.

Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and
you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines
properly.

I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How
are they on power consumption vs performance, for example?

Start by looking over the options within a budget. They're very
obvious on Newegg, a starter, to cross check on Amazon, if you want,
even though the hardware site are more comprehensive for somewhat an
impartial skew if not commercial endorsement accorded all. There's,
besides, really so many personal user-reviews available to cursorily
skim among popular choices for a valid impression if not clearer
pertinence. Start then building up your parts list in columnar
format, perhaps with options such as a few processors to narrow into;-
however, at that point, also do a quick cross-reference to MBs for a
ballpark idea of costs and widest reflected availability on a consumer
consumption bases. Better to work with what's there, in point of
fact, than to project costs that may not be a realistic expectation.
Aim for quality of construct, the more telling for potential among
select components as they tend to fade out of production and into
obsolescence.

MB and CPU. The rest are from the perspective of computing,
ancillary. A first focus, although don't nonetheless skimp on an
ancillary aspect of quality;- less in-depth and easier assessed, over
the hill, once the MB/CPU are established.

Think of it as dollar-cost-averaging across and into an integral of
reputability/quality, factoring out, objectively, any current
production processor from an expository assessment from specialised
instances, off from a skew as most generally applicable.

On 13/02/2014 4:38 AM, Mark wrote:
Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a
budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how
much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait
until prices drop.

Yeah, that's how I normally used to do it too, but this is a much better
way of doing it. With the Pcpartpicker site, you can choose a particular
processor, and this site will present you with only a list of
motherboards that are compatible with this chip. For example if you
choose a Core i7 that operates on the Socket 1156 interface, it won't
present any motherboards for Socket 2011 for example. Similarly if you
choose an AMD processor for Socket AM3+ interface, it won't present any
FM3+ sockets to you.

You can build your system around any components you feel that you must
have, and then just choose from a list of supporting components. If you
choose a specific case for example, you can build all of the rest around
stuff that's compatible with that case. For example, you choose an ITX
case, then it'll only present you with ITX mobos, and their compatible
CPUs.

Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and
you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines
properly.

I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How
are they on power consumption vs performance, for example?

Well there are two major lines of AMD processors, their traditional
CPU's, which are represented by their FX-line of processors, which don't
have built-in GPU's, and their A-series APU's which do have GPU's
built-in. The FX-line will go from 4 to 8 cores. The A-series will go
from 2 to 4 cores, but have the advantage of not needing any sort of
separate video card to be installed. The A-series have GPU's that are
mid- to upper-level gaming quality, especially the A8 and A10 series. If
you go with an A-series you will save on the cost and power consumption
of an entire video card. With Intel processors, even though they may
have GPU's built-in, few of them are gaming-quality, so you're going to
have to buy separate video cards for them anyways.

Yousuf Khan