What gets damaged?

With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r anything
similar?
Cheers,
J

"Johnny" wrote in message
...
With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r anything
similar?

Depending on various factors there are a few things that could happen:
- if the ink delivery system is designed poorly it could result in ink
dripping into the printer, gumming up the service station or other areas.
- incompatible inks could clog the printhead due to either incorrect
viscosity, contaminants or a chemical reaction.
- incompatible inks could foul the service station, damaging both the current
printhead and any subsequent printheads installed.

"Universal" cartridges are likely to have more of the above problems, but do
not assume an ink is compatible just because an advertiser says it is.
Personally I never believe someone who says their ink is identical to the
OEM's, I have seen direct evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

"Johnny" wrote in message
...
With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer
that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged
when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r anything
similar?
Cheers,
J


If it is a high quality ink, probably nothing.
You are more likely to see print quality issues (especially color shift)
than physical damage using a third party ink.
If you take the time to research the models available and buy what you
consider the best printer out there for the money, why turn around and stick
crappy ink in it?

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:15:59 -0500, "PC Medic" wrote:


"Johnny" wrote in message
...
With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer
that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged
when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r anything
similar?
Cheers,
J


If it is a high quality ink, probably nothing.
You are more likely to see print quality issues (especially color shift)
than physical damage using a third party ink.
If you take the time to research the models available and buy what you
consider the best printer out there for the money, why turn around and stick
crappy ink in it?



Because the printer was cheap but the "proper" ink cartridges are
expensive?


Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher

Asking what cases head damage is a fair question, but let's clarify
something first, Canon and Epson use very different head designs.

Epson heads use a piezo activation method. Basically there are a bunch
of plates that are distorted by electrical current. This plate
distortion changes the volume of a very small ink chamber, pushing ink
out a nozzle. As the plate flattens out, it causes ink to be drawn back
in the chamber from the ink source (refilling the chamber). This is
done extremely rapidly, and appears like a vibration. The process
involves no heat other than the small amount converted from mechanical
energy of the vibration.

The other inkjet manufacturers mainly use a thermal process. This
involves the use of a resistor that heats up upon electricity being
applied. The heat causes the water or other volatile within the ink to
boil, and the bubble of steam forces the ink to eject under pressure.

Epson's design is actually relatively rugged. It has to be because the
heads are permanent, and are designed to be so. The piezo actuation
response, is repeatable literally hundreds of millions or even billions
of times before breakdown. I suspect Epson came up with this design
from their parent company, Seiko's quartz watch design, where they
vibrated a small quartz crystal to keep the watch in time.

So, what can go wrong with an Epson head due to 3rd party inks?

Well, obviously, if you put ink into the head that has a solvent that
dissolves or otherwise harms the materials the head is made from, that
could kill a head. The head design uses plastics, ceramics and metals
which are laminated together. But most inks probably don't contain
those solvents.

The heads on Epson printers have changed over the years, but the basic
issues have always been that the ink has to be fairly pure without large
particles that might get through or clog the assorted filters within the
head, and the ink needs to have the correct viscosity, not too think,
not too thin, to work with the head design. If the ink is too thin, it
may leak out the head nozzles, but that would likely not damage the
head, but may make a mess and damage other components. If it was too
thick, and could not be diluted or dissolved, it could gum up the piezo
actuators and the chamber and nozzles permanently.

If the ink developed clots once it entered the head chamber they could
be stuck there and not allow for the ink to flow through the nozzles.

Usually, however, most inks use similar solvents (water, glycol, in a
high pH) so as long as the formulation isn't completely off the mark,
most of the times, Epson print heads can be unclogged with a bit of
patience and willingness to work at it.

Thermal ink heads can be more difficult, and more easily damaged by
incorrect formulations. First off, I do not know of any thermal head
that is considered permanent. They are eventually burn out. The
continually heating cooling process fatigues the components and the fail
either structurally or electronically. In the case of HP's cartridge
mounted heads, they are not designed to last much beyond one use,
although some people refill several times successfully. The materials
used are designed to give good service throughout the cartridge life,
but will degrade this repeated refilling from use.

Canon's newer heads are more robust forms of the same concept. Things
that can shorten the life of thermal heads include, again, wrong
solvents that damage the materials the heads are made from, inadequate
liquid or incorrect boiling point for the liquid, wrong pH leading to
eating away at the metal structure of the head, potential clogs due to
ink that has too large particles or foreign matter or clots developing
in it (this can be organic also, like molds or sludge), or inks that
exhibit the wrong electrolytic qualities, which might transfer metallic
molecules within the head structure.

As soon as heat and resistance is involved, all sorts of chemical
reactions are conceivable.

Keep in mind that, in theory, at least, an electrical current does not
have to pass through the ink within the head of an Epson printer, since
it is a mechanical action that moves the ink.

That is not to say that Epson heads don't fail. They can and do. There
are some electronic failures that are known to occur, and some models
appear to be more vulnerable than others. BUT, the vast majority of
clogs that people believe or are informed are "dead heads" are nothing
more than clogs that can be resolved as long as the person did not go
and try to manually force air or liquids through the heads to clear
them. That, I'm afraid, can literally blow up the piezo actuators or
delaminate the head, making it truly "dead".

I am sure using misformulated inks can damage Epson heads as well, but
it takes a bit more to do it. Clogs, yes, but likely repairable.

Canon's head can also be cleaned, since they are removable, but damage
caused by badly formulated inks can probably do more real damage to
them, and shorten their lives.

Art

Johnny wrote:

With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r anything
similar?
Cheers,
J

Can one buy new printheads, cheaply, for a Canon?

Cheers,

J

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:lYQGd.99340$nN6.75582@edtnps84...
Asking what cases head damage is a fair question, but let's clarify
something first, Canon and Epson use very different head designs.

Epson heads use a piezo activation method. Basically there are a bunch
of plates that are distorted by electrical current. This plate
distortion changes the volume of a very small ink chamber, pushing ink
out a nozzle. As the plate flattens out, it causes ink to be drawn back
in the chamber from the ink source (refilling the chamber). This is
done extremely rapidly, and appears like a vibration. The process
involves no heat other than the small amount converted from mechanical
energy of the vibration.

The other inkjet manufacturers mainly use a thermal process. This
involves the use of a resistor that heats up upon electricity being
applied. The heat causes the water or other volatile within the ink to
boil, and the bubble of steam forces the ink to eject under pressure.

Epson's design is actually relatively rugged. It has to be because the
heads are permanent, and are designed to be so. The piezo actuation
response, is repeatable literally hundreds of millions or even billions
of times before breakdown. I suspect Epson came up with this design
from their parent company, Seiko's quartz watch design, where they
vibrated a small quartz crystal to keep the watch in time.

So, what can go wrong with an Epson head due to 3rd party inks?

Well, obviously, if you put ink into the head that has a solvent that
dissolves or otherwise harms the materials the head is made from, that
could kill a head. The head design uses plastics, ceramics and metals
which are laminated together. But most inks probably don't contain
those solvents.

The heads on Epson printers have changed over the years, but the basic
issues have always been that the ink has to be fairly pure without large
particles that might get through or clog the assorted filters within the
head, and the ink needs to have the correct viscosity, not too think,
not too thin, to work with the head design. If the ink is too thin, it
may leak out the head nozzles, but that would likely not damage the
head, but may make a mess and damage other components. If it was too
thick, and could not be diluted or dissolved, it could gum up the piezo
actuators and the chamber and nozzles permanently.

If the ink developed clots once it entered the head chamber they could
be stuck there and not allow for the ink to flow through the nozzles.

Usually, however, most inks use similar solvents (water, glycol, in a
high pH) so as long as the formulation isn't completely off the mark,
most of the times, Epson print heads can be unclogged with a bit of
patience and willingness to work at it.

Thermal ink heads can be more difficult, and more easily damaged by
incorrect formulations. First off, I do not know of any thermal head
that is considered permanent. They are eventually burn out. The
continually heating cooling process fatigues the components and the fail
either structurally or electronically. In the case of HP's cartridge
mounted heads, they are not designed to last much beyond one use,
although some people refill several times successfully. The materials
used are designed to give good service throughout the cartridge life,
but will degrade this repeated refilling from use.

Canon's newer heads are more robust forms of the same concept. Things
that can shorten the life of thermal heads include, again, wrong
solvents that damage the materials the heads are made from, inadequate
liquid or incorrect boiling point for the liquid, wrong pH leading to
eating away at the metal structure of the head, potential clogs due to
ink that has too large particles or foreign matter or clots developing
in it (this can be organic also, like molds or sludge), or inks that
exhibit the wrong electrolytic qualities, which might transfer metallic
molecules within the head structure.

As soon as heat and resistance is involved, all sorts of chemical
reactions are conceivable.

Keep in mind that, in theory, at least, an electrical current does not
have to pass through the ink within the head of an Epson printer, since
it is a mechanical action that moves the ink.

That is not to say that Epson heads don't fail. They can and do. There
are some electronic failures that are known to occur, and some models
appear to be more vulnerable than others. BUT, the vast majority of
clogs that people believe or are informed are "dead heads" are nothing
more than clogs that can be resolved as long as the person did not go
and try to manually force air or liquids through the heads to clear
them. That, I'm afraid, can literally blow up the piezo actuators or
delaminate the head, making it truly "dead".

I am sure using misformulated inks can damage Epson heads as well, but
it takes a bit more to do it. Clogs, yes, but likely repairable.

Canon's head can also be cleaned, since they are removable, but damage
caused by badly formulated inks can probably do more real damage to
them, and shorten their lives.

Art

Johnny wrote:

With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer
that
uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged
when
you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r
anything
similar?
Cheers,
J

I have never owned one so I have never tried, but the word on "the
street" is no. The prices are relatively high, if and when the heads
are made available.

Art

Johnny wrote:

Can one buy new printheads, cheaply, for a Canon?

Cheers,

J

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:lYQGd.99340$nN6.75582@edtnps84...

Asking what cases head damage is a fair question, but let's clarify
something first, Canon and Epson use very different head designs.

Epson heads use a piezo activation method. Basically there are a bunch
of plates that are distorted by electrical current. This plate
distortion changes the volume of a very small ink chamber, pushing ink
out a nozzle. As the plate flattens out, it causes ink to be drawn back
in the chamber from the ink source (refilling the chamber). This is
done extremely rapidly, and appears like a vibration. The process
involves no heat other than the small amount converted from mechanical
energy of the vibration.

The other inkjet manufacturers mainly use a thermal process. This
involves the use of a resistor that heats up upon electricity being
applied. The heat causes the water or other volatile within the ink to
boil, and the bubble of steam forces the ink to eject under pressure.

Epson's design is actually relatively rugged. It has to be because the
heads are permanent, and are designed to be so. The piezo actuation
response, is repeatable literally hundreds of millions or even billions
of times before breakdown. I suspect Epson came up with this design
from their parent company, Seiko's quartz watch design, where they
vibrated a small quartz crystal to keep the watch in time.

So, what can go wrong with an Epson head due to 3rd party inks?

Well, obviously, if you put ink into the head that has a solvent that
dissolves or otherwise harms the materials the head is made from, that
could kill a head. The head design uses plastics, ceramics and metals
which are laminated together. But most inks probably don't contain
those solvents.

The heads on Epson printers have changed over the years, but the basic
issues have always been that the ink has to be fairly pure without large
particles that might get through or clog the assorted filters within the
head, and the ink needs to have the correct viscosity, not too think,
not too thin, to work with the head design. If the ink is too thin, it
may leak out the head nozzles, but that would likely not damage the
head, but may make a mess and damage other components. If it was too
thick, and could not be diluted or dissolved, it could gum up the piezo
actuators and the chamber and nozzles permanently.

If the ink developed clots once it entered the head chamber they could
be stuck there and not allow for the ink to flow through the nozzles.

Usually, however, most inks use similar solvents (water, glycol, in a
high pH) so as long as the formulation isn't completely off the mark,
most of the times, Epson print heads can be unclogged with a bit of
patience and willingness to work at it.

Thermal ink heads can be more difficult, and more easily damaged by
incorrect formulations. First off, I do not know of any thermal head
that is considered permanent. They are eventually burn out. The
continually heating cooling process fatigues the components and the fail
either structurally or electronically. In the case of HP's cartridge
mounted heads, they are not designed to last much beyond one use,
although some people refill several times successfully. The materials
used are designed to give good service throughout the cartridge life,
but will degrade this repeated refilling from use.

Canon's newer heads are more robust forms of the same concept. Things
that can shorten the life of thermal heads include, again, wrong
solvents that damage the materials the heads are made from, inadequate
liquid or incorrect boiling point for the liquid, wrong pH leading to
eating away at the metal structure of the head, potential clogs due to
ink that has too large particles or foreign matter or clots developing
in it (this can be organic also, like molds or sludge), or inks that
exhibit the wrong electrolytic qualities, which might transfer metallic
molecules within the head structure.

As soon as heat and resistance is involved, all sorts of chemical
reactions are conceivable.

Keep in mind that, in theory, at least, an electrical current does not
have to pass through the ink within the head of an Epson printer, since
it is a mechanical action that moves the ink.

That is not to say that Epson heads don't fail. They can and do. There
are some electronic failures that are known to occur, and some models
appear to be more vulnerable than others. BUT, the vast majority of
clogs that people believe or are informed are "dead heads" are nothing
more than clogs that can be resolved as long as the person did not go
and try to manually force air or liquids through the heads to clear
them. That, I'm afraid, can literally blow up the piezo actuators or
delaminate the head, making it truly "dead".

I am sure using misformulated inks can damage Epson heads as well, but
it takes a bit more to do it. Clogs, yes, but likely repairable.

Canon's head can also be cleaned, since they are removable, but damage
caused by badly formulated inks can probably do more real damage to
them, and shorten their lives.

Art

Johnny wrote:


With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer

that

uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged

when

you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r

anything

similar?
Cheers,
J

I suppose the key word here is "cheap". I replaced the print head on my Canon s9000
with a head from http://www.weink.com (USD124.99).
Rescho
"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
newsKdHd.6720$u_1.1289@edtnps91...
I have never owned one so I have never tried, but the word on "the
street" is no. The prices are relatively high, if and when the heads
are made available.

Art

Johnny wrote:

Can one buy new printheads, cheaply, for a Canon?

Cheers,

J

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:lYQGd.99340$nN6.75582@edtnps84...

Asking what cases head damage is a fair question, but let's clarify
something first, Canon and Epson use very different head designs.

Epson heads use a piezo activation method. Basically there are a bunch
of plates that are distorted by electrical current. This plate
distortion changes the volume of a very small ink chamber, pushing ink
out a nozzle. As the plate flattens out, it causes ink to be drawn back
in the chamber from the ink source (refilling the chamber). This is
done extremely rapidly, and appears like a vibration. The process
involves no heat other than the small amount converted from mechanical
energy of the vibration.

The other inkjet manufacturers mainly use a thermal process. This
involves the use of a resistor that heats up upon electricity being
applied. The heat causes the water or other volatile within the ink to
boil, and the bubble of steam forces the ink to eject under pressure.

Epson's design is actually relatively rugged. It has to be because the
heads are permanent, and are designed to be so. The piezo actuation
response, is repeatable literally hundreds of millions or even billions
of times before breakdown. I suspect Epson came up with this design
from their parent company, Seiko's quartz watch design, where they
vibrated a small quartz crystal to keep the watch in time.

So, what can go wrong with an Epson head due to 3rd party inks?

Well, obviously, if you put ink into the head that has a solvent that
dissolves or otherwise harms the materials the head is made from, that
could kill a head. The head design uses plastics, ceramics and metals
which are laminated together. But most inks probably don't contain
those solvents.

The heads on Epson printers have changed over the years, but the basic
issues have always been that the ink has to be fairly pure without large
particles that might get through or clog the assorted filters within the
head, and the ink needs to have the correct viscosity, not too think,
not too thin, to work with the head design. If the ink is too thin, it
may leak out the head nozzles, but that would likely not damage the
head, but may make a mess and damage other components. If it was too
thick, and could not be diluted or dissolved, it could gum up the piezo
actuators and the chamber and nozzles permanently.

If the ink developed clots once it entered the head chamber they could
be stuck there and not allow for the ink to flow through the nozzles.

Usually, however, most inks use similar solvents (water, glycol, in a
high pH) so as long as the formulation isn't completely off the mark,
most of the times, Epson print heads can be unclogged with a bit of
patience and willingness to work at it.

Thermal ink heads can be more difficult, and more easily damaged by
incorrect formulations. First off, I do not know of any thermal head
that is considered permanent. They are eventually burn out. The
continually heating cooling process fatigues the components and the fail
either structurally or electronically. In the case of HP's cartridge
mounted heads, they are not designed to last much beyond one use,
although some people refill several times successfully. The materials
used are designed to give good service throughout the cartridge life,
but will degrade this repeated refilling from use.

Canon's newer heads are more robust forms of the same concept. Things
that can shorten the life of thermal heads include, again, wrong
solvents that damage the materials the heads are made from, inadequate
liquid or incorrect boiling point for the liquid, wrong pH leading to
eating away at the metal structure of the head, potential clogs due to
ink that has too large particles or foreign matter or clots developing
in it (this can be organic also, like molds or sludge), or inks that
exhibit the wrong electrolytic qualities, which might transfer metallic
molecules within the head structure.

As soon as heat and resistance is involved, all sorts of chemical
reactions are conceivable.

Keep in mind that, in theory, at least, an electrical current does not
have to pass through the ink within the head of an Epson printer, since
it is a mechanical action that moves the ink.

That is not to say that Epson heads don't fail. They can and do. There
are some electronic failures that are known to occur, and some models
appear to be more vulnerable than others. BUT, the vast majority of
clogs that people believe or are informed are "dead heads" are nothing
more than clogs that can be resolved as long as the person did not go
and try to manually force air or liquids through the heads to clear
them. That, I'm afraid, can literally blow up the piezo actuators or
delaminate the head, making it truly "dead".

I am sure using misformulated inks can damage Epson heads as well, but
it takes a bit more to do it. Clogs, yes, but likely repairable.

Canon's head can also be cleaned, since they are removable, but damage
caused by badly formulated inks can probably do more real damage to
them, and shorten their lives.

Art

Johnny wrote:


With a Canon IP, or with an Epson stylus 830, or with any other printer

that

uses the same printhead mechanism, exactly what is it that gets damaged

when

you use non-oem ink, and can it be rectified by simple cleaning r

anything

similar?
Cheers,
J