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CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 10th 05, 07:39 AM
S. Whitmore
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Default CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load?

I recently upgraded my system and now have a new AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on
a new ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo, with a new Enermax 470W "Noisetaker" PSU.

Ambient temps have been consistenly in the 65-75F range, and for the
couple of weeks I've had the new hardware running, the mobo and CPU
temps have been pretty consistently in the 75-85F range (depending on
load, of course, and lately I haven't been doing much as I also
reorganized my hard drives and I'm still getting things reinstalled and
reconfigured). Those temps are as reported by ASUS PC Probe, which I
have running all the time in the background (i.e., tooltray).

Tonight I got the unpleasant surprise of my system shutting down
suddenly. No warning, no error, no alarm or alert from PC Probe, no
gentle close -- just suddenly a dark screen, silence, and the monitor
shifting into sleep mode. I powered it up again and it ran for a short
time and then it shut down again, just as abruptly. Both times, the
Ethernet indicators were still lit on the mobo and the PSU was doing
it's post-shutdown cool-down (this PSU continues exhausting the case for
a couple minutes after shutdown).

My first "suspect" was a power problem, specifically with the UPS,
because another of the same type that I got in the same order from
newegg.com just went back w/ an RMA today. But it didn't really seem
right, so I did some looking online in various discussion groups. Most
pointed to either a PSU failure (possible) or a temp problem. I didn't
think it would be temp related because the system wasn't under any real
load and hadn't been on very long. The first time it happened, I was in
the middle of rebooting after changing my network configuration. The
second time it happened I was just reading a message in Mozilla mail.

Despite thinking it wasn't a temp problem, I decided it was easy to
check for that, so I booted the system and went right into the BIOS
Setup. Watched, and didn't like what I saw. The mobo temp stayed in
the same range it's been in, but the CPU was steadily climbing as I
watched. When it got to 110F (after about 3 or 4 minutes) I shut it
down, since I was already seeing what looked to me like bad behavior.
(I'm assuming sitting and watching the hardware monitor in the BIOS
Setup does not impose much of a CPU load -- am I wrong?)

After awhile, I decided to ask online, so I booted up to Windows 2000.
As I write this message, PC Probe is again saying that my CPU temp is in
the 75-85F range (at the moment, 28C/82F). So maybe the problem has
gone away for now, or maybe PC Probe isn't reporting temps correctly.

I would appreciate ideas and input on this abrupt shutdown problem
and/or the CPU temp behavior that I'm seeing.

TIA,

--
Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce)
Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo
http://www.just-stuart.com/
  #2  
Old February 10th 05, 08:10 AM
John Doe
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Default

"S. Whitmore" wrote:

....
The first time it happened, I was in the middle of rebooting after
changing my network configuration. The second time it happened I
was just reading a message in Mozilla mail.


I think that's your suspect (network, and input or video stuff). As
a nuke style workaround, you could try switching from Windows NT to
Windows XP, if possible.

After awhile, I decided to ask online, so I booted up to Windows
2000. As I write this message, PC Probe is again saying that my CPU
temp is in the 75-85F range (at the moment, 28C/82F).


It's like Hawaii inside your case.

So maybe the problem has gone away for now, or maybe PC Probe isn't
reporting temps correctly.


Because it's not over 85F? Where did you get your information about
CPU temperature, so I can avoid it.

I would appreciate ideas and input on this abrupt shutdown problem
and/or the CPU temp behavior that I'm seeing.


My CPU temperature varies significantly with room temperature.

You are overconcerned about CPU temperature. Next time, when it gets
to 43C, do not shut off your computer. Too hot for my CPU, in my
opinion, is over about 52C. The maximum operating temperature of an
Athlon XP CPU is about 85C which is 185F.

Good luck.





--
United States and British intelligence agencies admittedly break the
law while spying on each other. United States and British
governments claim to energetically share that information.
  #3  
Old February 10th 05, 08:40 AM
S. Whitmore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Doe wrote:

I think that's your suspect (network, and input or video stuff).


To cause an abrupt shutdown? I'd consider that doubtful at best, based
on my experience.

As
a nuke style workaround, you could try switching from Windows NT to
Windows XP, if possible.


Nope, not going to XP. Linux maybe, but not XP. Windows 2000 has been
the most stable Microsoft OS I've used (well, other than MS-DOS 3.3
maybe), so I have no incentive at the moment to switch to something that
adds the annoyance of "activation" just to play around with my system.

It's like Hawaii inside your case.


Ah, so the hula girls caused the shutdown. Figures!

You are overconcerned about CPU temperature.


No, I'm concerned about having my system shut off abruptly, without
warning from either software tool I expected to warn me (i.e., the UPS
monitoring software for power failures and ASUS PC Probe for temp or fan
issues).

Next time, when it gets
to 43C, do not shut off your computer. Too hot for my CPU, in my
opinion, is over about 52C. The maximum operating temperature of an
Athlon XP CPU is about 85C which is 185F.


Well, I didn't shut it down for being too hot. I shut it down because I
was already seeing behavior that I didn't expect based on what I've
observed in the week or two that I've had this upgraded system
operational, and didn't want to sit and watch until it did climb too
high (which, of course, was based on the assumption that it would
continue rising). I wouldn't get concerned about the temperature itself
until it was over 55C, based on what I've read about this chip (where
60C seems to be a key level). Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

--
Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce)
Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo
http://www.just-stuart.com/
  #4  
Old February 10th 05, 09:35 AM
John Doe
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Posts: n/a
Default

"S. Whitmore" wrote:
John Doe wrote:
"S. Whitmore" wrote:


....
The first time it happened, I was in the middle of rebooting
after changing my network configuration. The second time it
happened I was just reading a message in Mozilla mail.


I think that's your suspect (network, and input or video stuff).


To cause an abrupt shutdown?


Yes. As I recall, shutting down happens.
These days, saying "shut down Windows" can do it.

I'd consider that doubtful at best, based on my experience.


I'm having trouble reading between the lines.

Your entire original post dwelled on the idea that it was CPU
overheating. Given the facts, I can't imagine a worse lead.

As a nuke style workaround, you could try switching from Windows
NT to Windows XP, if possible.


Nope, not going to XP. Linux maybe, but not XP. Windows 2000 has
been the most stable Microsoft OS I've used (well, other than
MS-DOS 3.3 maybe), so I have no incentive at the moment to switch
to something that adds the annoyance of "activation" just to play
around with my system.


There is an easy workaround.

You are overconcerned about CPU temperature.


No, I'm concerned about having my system shut off abruptly, without
warning from either software tool I expected to warn me (i.e., the
UPS monitoring software for power failures and ASUS PC Probe for
temp or fan issues).


I think it's a low-level software problem, but maybe you could test
for that one if your BIOS allows an after power failure state of ON.




....
60C seems to be a key level). Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

--
Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce)
Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo
http://www.just-stuart.com/


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From: "S. Whitmore" usenet-bounce @just-stuart.com
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  #5  
Old February 10th 05, 09:43 AM
Mxsmanic
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Default

S. Whitmore writes:

I recently upgraded my system and now have a new AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on
a new ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo, with a new Enermax 470W "Noisetaker" PSU.


But you left out the most important part: What OPERATING SYSTEM are you
running?

Some older versions of Windows (those not derived from Windows NT) don't
actually halt the processor when they are idle; instead, they run a
continuous "idle loop" that keeps the processor pegged at 100%. Some
other older operating systems work the same way.

More modern and better-written operating systems actually halt the
processor when there is nothing to do. This is true for anything based
on UNIX (including Mac OS X) and anything based on Windows NT (Windows
NT itself, Windows 200x, and Windows XP). I don't know if the old Mac
OS did this.

If your machine is running an operating system with an "idle loop,"
temperatures will climb to just about the maximum even when the system
seems quiet.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #6  
Old February 10th 05, 09:45 AM
Mxsmanic
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Default

S. Whitmore writes:

Nope, not going to XP.


XP, 2000, and NT all have the same kernel and code base, so switching
from one to another would make no difference in this case.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #7  
Old February 10th 05, 10:15 AM
John Doe
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Mxsmanic wrote:
S. Whitmore writes:


Nope, not going to XP.


XP, 2000, and NT all have the same kernel and code base,


That is false.

so switching to from one to another would make no difference in
this case.


That is wild speculation based on faulty information or at best
based on a half truth.

I'm not trying to sell Microsoft products. I'm simply trying to help
the user solve his problem. Please keep in mind I called the
suggestion about switching to Windows XP a "nuke style workaround".

In fact, Windows XP is a more modern operating system which handles
things better, whether or not you can cope with that idea. It was an
uneasy upgrade for me as well.






--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.


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Subject: CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load?
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  #8  
Old February 10th 05, 10:32 AM
David Maynard
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Default

S. Whitmore wrote:

I recently upgraded my system and now have a new AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on
a new ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo, with a new Enermax 470W "Noisetaker" PSU.

Ambient temps have been consistenly in the 65-75F range, and for the
couple of weeks I've had the new hardware running, the mobo and CPU
temps have been pretty consistently in the 75-85F range (depending on
load, of course, and lately I haven't been doing much as I also
reorganized my hard drives and I'm still getting things reinstalled and
reconfigured). Those temps are as reported by ASUS PC Probe, which I
have running all the time in the background (i.e., tooltray).

Tonight I got the unpleasant surprise of my system shutting down
suddenly. No warning, no error, no alarm or alert from PC Probe, no
gentle close -- just suddenly a dark screen, silence, and the monitor
shifting into sleep mode. I powered it up again and it ran for a short
time and then it shut down again, just as abruptly. Both times, the
Ethernet indicators were still lit on the mobo and the PSU was doing
it's post-shutdown cool-down (this PSU continues exhausting the case for
a couple minutes after shutdown).

My first "suspect" was a power problem, specifically with the UPS,
because another of the same type that I got in the same order from
newegg.com just went back w/ an RMA today. But it didn't really seem
right, so I did some looking online in various discussion groups. Most
pointed to either a PSU failure (possible) or a temp problem. I didn't
think it would be temp related because the system wasn't under any real
load and hadn't been on very long. The first time it happened, I was in
the middle of rebooting after changing my network configuration. The
second time it happened I was just reading a message in Mozilla mail.

Despite thinking it wasn't a temp problem, I decided it was easy to
check for that, so I booted the system and went right into the BIOS
Setup. Watched, and didn't like what I saw. The mobo temp stayed in
the same range it's been in, but the CPU was steadily climbing as I
watched. When it got to 110F (after about 3 or 4 minutes) I shut it
down, since I was already seeing what looked to me like bad behavior.
(I'm assuming sitting and watching the hardware monitor in the BIOS
Setup does not impose much of a CPU load -- am I wrong?)


Yes, because the CPU does not go into any power saving or sleep modes when
in the BIOS like it does when the operating system is at idle; which is
most of the time if you're not doing anything intensive.


After awhile, I decided to ask online, so I booted up to Windows 2000.
As I write this message, PC Probe is again saying that my CPU temp is in
the 75-85F range (at the moment, 28C/82F). So maybe the problem has
gone away for now, or maybe PC Probe isn't reporting temps correctly.


It's because the O.S. puts it in sleep mode when idle.


I would appreciate ideas and input on this abrupt shutdown problem
and/or the CPU temp behavior that I'm seeing.


The shutdown could be caused by a myriad of things. Check your event logs,
although your symptoms suggest it dies before an event could be recorded.


TIA,


  #9  
Old February 10th 05, 01:15 PM
Mxsmanic
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Posts: n/a
Default

John Doe writes:

That is false.


I've read the source code.

That is wild speculation based on faulty information or at best
based on a half truth.


See above.

Current Microsoft Windows operating systems are derived from the Windows
NT code base, because NT is very well written. The base has evolved and
differs somewhat from product to product, and there are cosmetic and
configuration differences, but under the hood they are mostly the same,
as careful examination of the operating systems reveals.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #10  
Old February 10th 05, 07:20 PM
Matt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mxsmanic wrote:
S. Whitmore writes:


I recently upgraded my system and now have a new AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on
a new ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo, with a new Enermax 470W "Noisetaker" PSU.



But you left out the most important part: What OPERATING SYSTEM are you
running?

Some older versions of Windows (those not derived from Windows NT) don't
actually halt the processor when they are idle; instead, they run a
continuous "idle loop" that keeps the processor pegged at 100%. Some
other older operating systems work the same way.

More modern and better-written operating systems actually halt the
processor when there is nothing to do. This is true for anything based
on UNIX (including Mac OS X) and anything based on Windows NT (Windows
NT itself, Windows 200x, and Windows XP). I don't know if the old Mac
OS did this.

If your machine is running an operating system with an "idle loop,"
temperatures will climb to just about the maximum even when the system
seems quiet.


What is the typical behavior of BIOSes at idle?

I had a Biostar M7NCD Pro with Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton). I normally run
Linux, but I don't have a way to check CPU temp under Linux. But when
it was idling in Linux and I shut Linux down and went immediately
(without power down) into the health-status page of the BIOS, I would
see the temp rise in about twenty minutes from about 38 C to about 48 C.

So it seemed to run about 10 C hotter when idling in the BIOS than when
idling in Linux.
 




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