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A8N-SLI & 'E'ATX



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 8th 05, 01:37 AM
Dragoncarer
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Posts: n/a
Default A8N-SLI & 'E'ATX

Uhm...so I've connected my A8N-SLI up and everything, but the board has a
24-pin power connecter, my PSU has a 20-Pin connecter. I didn't realise all
this until I installed the Mobo because, well...I'd never hear it discussed
before. Is this going to be a problem? Currently it's running fine and I
haven't had any Mobo problems that could be attributed to the PSU.

Many thanks.


  #2  
Old August 8th 05, 08:15 AM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Dragoncarer"
wrote:

Uhm...so I've connected my A8N-SLI up and everything, but the board has a
24-pin power connecter, my PSU has a 20-Pin connecter. I didn't realise all
this until I installed the Mobo because, well...I'd never hear it discussed
before. Is this going to be a problem? Currently it's running fine and I
haven't had any Mobo problems that could be attributed to the PSU.

Many thanks.


The 24 pin power connector is the same as the 20 pin connector,
except there are a few extra power signals on it. The reason
for this, is the PCI Express card slots can carry more power,
so the power connector was beefed up a bit.

The most crucial difference is the +12V situation. On the
20 pin power connector, there is only one wire carrying +12V. It
powers anything on the motherboard that needs +12V (except the
processor, and it uses the separate 2x2 power connector). If you
were using more than one PCI Express plugin card, and they
drew a lot of current, you could overload the single pin.
A pin on the 20 pin ATX power connector can safely carry 6 amps
without serious overheating, so that is the limit for one pin.

On the 24 pin connector, they added a second +12V pin, which means
the connector can carry up to 12 amps total current.

If the only PCI Express card being used is a single video card,
chances are the loading on the single pin is within the
6 amp limit, so there should be no harm. The A8N-SLI has
the EZ-Plug connector as well, and if you use that connector
in addition to the 20 pin power connector, that virtually guarantees
there won't be a problem. The EZ-Plug (disk drive) connectors
are rated at 8 amps carrying capacity, so using EZ-Plug plus
the 20 pin power connector makes room for 6+8=14 amps, which
is enough for two video cards.

There are two concepts at work here. One concept is the amount
of current the power supply has to offer (that limit is printed
on the label on the side of the power supply). The current has to
flow through some number of connector pins, and both the pins
and wires have current limits (if exceeded, the metal gets hot
and the plastic can melt). The numbers I've mentioned above,
are the safe operating limits for the pins on the 20 pin ATX
power connector, and for the disk drive connector plugged into
EZ-Plug. Using the EZ-Plug is a good form of insurance, and
can be used with one or two video cards (it is not restricted
to running two video cards).

Now, this topic is a bit more obscure, but I'll mention it
for the sake of completeness. This article mentions the
splitting of the +12V rails on some of the high end power
supplies.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=get...&articID=3 32

Older ATX power supplies have exactly one +12V circuit. Some
of the 500W+ power supplies can have [email protected] or more as outputs.
There are no issues with using a supply like this, because all
+12V power comes from the same circuit. There is no wasted
capacity, as the 34A can be used by any load. (Splitting
the output means, if one output doesn't use all its juice,
the other output cannot gain access to it.)

On the newer 24 pin power supplies, there are two outputs -
12V1 (processor 2x2 connector) and 12V2 (everything else).
A supply like this is OK to use with EZ-Plug on your board,
because the 24 pin ATX power connector, and its two 12V wires,
run from 12V2, as do the disk drive connectors. Plugging in
the EZ-Plug won't harm anything in this case.

There are supplies that have three or four +12V regulator circuits
in the power supply. According to the madshrimps.be review above,
the power rails split like:

(Common Plane System) (Split Plane System)
12V1 Processors 12V1 Processor 1
12V2 Processor 2
12V2 Motherboard 12V3 Motherboard
12V3 Disk drive plugs 12V4 Disk drive plugs

I would be careful with supplies like this. If you plug in the
24 pin power plug, the two 12V wires run on a different 12V output
than the disk drive plugs. Plugging in the EZ-Plug in this case,
connects say, 12V2 to 12V3. If the power supply is not designed
for this, current will flow from one 12V circuit to the other,
which is not desirable. Note that the A8N-SLI is not listed
on the web page below, and I'm not sure if the reason is because
of this 12V issue or not. At the very least, if buying a supply
with three or more +12V output circuits, I would want to ask the
power supply maker whether using it on the A8N-SLI is a wise idea.
You cannot connect outputs on a supply together, unless there is
provision in the power supply design for current sharing.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produc...r/?show=T85SSI

The safest course of action, when shopping for a 24 pin power
supply, is to stick with the common 12V1/12V2 type supplies.
At the bottom of this web page, is a short list of "certified"
SLI power supplies, and I would find a supply with one or two
12V output circuits. The Turbocool 510 SLI has one 12V output,
and would be a reasonable solution. The Enermax EG701AX has two
12V outputs, and would also look to be safe as a choice. So
far, it looks like the Turbocool 850 is the only one I would
not want to use with an Asus EZ-Plug type motherboard. (And
at the price they are charging for the 850, I doubt anyone
will be buying it anyway. The design is still impressive, having
all that power, and only using a single cooling fan.) While
the EZ-Plug concept can improve the quality of power delivered
to the video cards, the same objective can be met by locating
the 24 pin power connector close to the video cards, and a
motherboard design without EZ-Plug won't have this issue with
shorting 12V2 to 12V3 etc.

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build.html

HTH,
Paul
  #3  
Old August 8th 05, 09:37 AM
Dragoncarer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dragoncarer"
wrote:

Uhm...so I've connected my A8N-SLI up and everything, but the board has a
24-pin power connecter, my PSU has a 20-Pin connecter. I didn't realise
all
this until I installed the Mobo because, well...I'd never hear it
discussed
before. Is this going to be a problem? Currently it's running fine and I
haven't had any Mobo problems that could be attributed to the PSU.

Many thanks.


The 24 pin power connector is the same as the 20 pin connector,
except there are a few extra power signals on it. The reason
for this, is the PCI Express card slots can carry more power,
so the power connector was beefed up a bit.

The most crucial difference is the +12V situation. On the
20 pin power connector, there is only one wire carrying +12V. It
powers anything on the motherboard that needs +12V (except the
processor, and it uses the separate 2x2 power connector). If you
were using more than one PCI Express plugin card, and they
drew a lot of current, you could overload the single pin.
A pin on the 20 pin ATX power connector can safely carry 6 amps
without serious overheating, so that is the limit for one pin.

On the 24 pin connector, they added a second +12V pin, which means
the connector can carry up to 12 amps total current.

If the only PCI Express card being used is a single video card,
chances are the loading on the single pin is within the
6 amp limit, so there should be no harm. The A8N-SLI has
the EZ-Plug connector as well, and if you use that connector
in addition to the 20 pin power connector, that virtually guarantees
there won't be a problem. The EZ-Plug (disk drive) connectors
are rated at 8 amps carrying capacity, so using EZ-Plug plus
the 20 pin power connector makes room for 6+8=14 amps, which
is enough for two video cards.

There are two concepts at work here. One concept is the amount
of current the power supply has to offer (that limit is printed
on the label on the side of the power supply). The current has to
flow through some number of connector pins, and both the pins
and wires have current limits (if exceeded, the metal gets hot
and the plastic can melt). The numbers I've mentioned above,
are the safe operating limits for the pins on the 20 pin ATX
power connector, and for the disk drive connector plugged into
EZ-Plug. Using the EZ-Plug is a good form of insurance, and
can be used with one or two video cards (it is not restricted
to running two video cards).

Now, this topic is a bit more obscure, but I'll mention it
for the sake of completeness. This article mentions the
splitting of the +12V rails on some of the high end power
supplies.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=get...&articID=3 32

Older ATX power supplies have exactly one +12V circuit. Some
of the 500W+ power supplies can have [email protected] or more as outputs.
There are no issues with using a supply like this, because all
+12V power comes from the same circuit. There is no wasted
capacity, as the 34A can be used by any load. (Splitting
the output means, if one output doesn't use all its juice,
the other output cannot gain access to it.)

On the newer 24 pin power supplies, there are two outputs -
12V1 (processor 2x2 connector) and 12V2 (everything else).
A supply like this is OK to use with EZ-Plug on your board,
because the 24 pin ATX power connector, and its two 12V wires,
run from 12V2, as do the disk drive connectors. Plugging in
the EZ-Plug won't harm anything in this case.

There are supplies that have three or four +12V regulator circuits
in the power supply. According to the madshrimps.be review above,
the power rails split like:

(Common Plane System) (Split Plane System)
12V1 Processors 12V1 Processor 1
12V2 Processor 2
12V2 Motherboard 12V3 Motherboard
12V3 Disk drive plugs 12V4 Disk drive plugs

I would be careful with supplies like this. If you plug in the
24 pin power plug, the two 12V wires run on a different 12V output
than the disk drive plugs. Plugging in the EZ-Plug in this case,
connects say, 12V2 to 12V3. If the power supply is not designed
for this, current will flow from one 12V circuit to the other,
which is not desirable. Note that the A8N-SLI is not listed
on the web page below, and I'm not sure if the reason is because
of this 12V issue or not. At the very least, if buying a supply
with three or more +12V output circuits, I would want to ask the
power supply maker whether using it on the A8N-SLI is a wise idea.
You cannot connect outputs on a supply together, unless there is
provision in the power supply design for current sharing.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produc...r/?show=T85SSI

The safest course of action, when shopping for a 24 pin power
supply, is to stick with the common 12V1/12V2 type supplies.
At the bottom of this web page, is a short list of "certified"
SLI power supplies, and I would find a supply with one or two
12V output circuits. The Turbocool 510 SLI has one 12V output,
and would be a reasonable solution. The Enermax EG701AX has two
12V outputs, and would also look to be safe as a choice. So
far, it looks like the Turbocool 850 is the only one I would
not want to use with an Asus EZ-Plug type motherboard. (And
at the price they are charging for the 850, I doubt anyone
will be buying it anyway. The design is still impressive, having
all that power, and only using a single cooling fan.) While
the EZ-Plug concept can improve the quality of power delivered
to the video cards, the same objective can be met by locating
the 24 pin power connector close to the video cards, and a
motherboard design without EZ-Plug won't have this issue with
shorting 12V2 to 12V3 etc.

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build.html

HTH,
Paul


Phew, lot's of information! But, this was helpful. At the moment, I don't
even have one PCI-E card...but I eventually plan on getting one. I'm even
considering waiting and getting a 7800 or 7800GT...which means I'll only
have one card for avery long time. As you say, the EZ Plug will ensure I
have safe amount of power if I ever were to connect another card.
Thanks heaps Paul.


  #4  
Old August 8th 05, 02:55 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Might look at this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812145002

24pin Motherboard Cable to 20pin Power Supply

Don't confuse with cheaper parts that are "20 pin Motherboard cable to
24pin power supply." They aren't the same thing. My 24pin
powersupply lets me detach the extra 4 pins for 20 pin motherboards.

  #5  
Old August 8th 05, 03:41 PM
Dragoncarer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...
Might look at this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812145002

24pin Motherboard Cable to 20pin Power Supply

Don't confuse with cheaper parts that are "20 pin Motherboard cable to
24pin power supply." They aren't the same thing. My 24pin
powersupply lets me detach the extra 4 pins for 20 pin motherboards.


Hey, thanks! So it looks like there are def. adapters out the I thought
there might be, but hadn't got around to looking for any (I live in
Australia btw).

My only reservation is (noob question coming up): is the adapter able to
draw the requisite power for the 4 individual cables/pins? Surely it would
have to spread the supply coming from the 20 existing pins over the
additional 4...how can the adapter draw the extra 4 pins' power
requirements?

Many, many thanks.


  #6  
Old August 8th 05, 07:03 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's been a while since I was an electronics guy.

I believe this depends on your power supply. For example say you have
your 12v/grd line powering something that is 5A constant then you split
it off to another circuit drawing 5A. You're now drawing 10A off of
that single 12V/grd connector. If your power supply can handle it,
you should be okay. If the wire is a small AWG (24awg for example)
then it can get warm/hot (melt?) compared to a bigger 16 gauge (awg)
wire and PSU.

My ASUS Motherboard states that if I am running a 6800GT then my power
supply needs to be at least 400watt psu. Dual 6800's would require at
least 500watts. Anything less and the system will become flaky. Of
course, it has standard molex connectors for each PCI-x 16 slot. I
believe that means I can power it from this extra 4 pins, or from the
molex connector, or directly from the power connector on the PCI-e vga
card if it has one.

I'm not an expert on this subject. You said you weren't running PCIe
so it probably doesn't matter.

  #7  
Old August 8th 05, 07:04 PM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Dragoncarer"
wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Might look at this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812145002

24pin Motherboard Cable to 20pin Power Supply

Don't confuse with cheaper parts that are "20 pin Motherboard cable to
24pin power supply." They aren't the same thing. My 24pin
powersupply lets me detach the extra 4 pins for 20 pin motherboards.


Hey, thanks! So it looks like there are def. adapters out the I thought
there might be, but hadn't got around to looking for any (I live in
Australia btw).

My only reservation is (noob question coming up): is the adapter able to
draw the requisite power for the 4 individual cables/pins? Surely it would
have to spread the supply coming from the 20 existing pins over the
additional 4...how can the adapter draw the extra 4 pins' power
requirements?

Many, many thanks.


As you have surmised, using an adapter cable, to go from a 20 pin
PSU to a 24 pin connector that fits the motherboard, solves nothing.

The feature edavid3001 describes is a good one - there are supplies
with 24 pin connectors, where four pins on the connector detach, and
the remaining 20 pin section can plug into a 20 pin motherboard.
No rules are violated by doing that. (Just make sure all pins of
the detachable connector are properly seated, when plugging into
the motherboard. A loose connection can also cause the plastic to
melt.)

Similarly, if you uses a 24 pin (PSU end) to 20 pin (mobo end)
adapter, the wire and pin ratios are preserved in the assembly,
so no rules are being broken.

But a simple 20 pin (PSU end) to 24 pin (mobo end) is cheating,
and the same current flow limits could cause the adapter's
pins to get hot, melting the plastic at the PSU end of the
adapter. If the current in the 12V mobo distribution stays
below 6 amps, there would be no problem with the adapter, but
no significant advantage either. This is one adapter I wouldn't
bother with.

If you can afford two PCI Express video cards to run SLI, chances
are you can afford to buy a decent PSU to feed them. An existing
PSU is not likely to have enough max output amps on the label
to meet a load like that, so when you switch to an SLI configuration
is a good time to upgrade the PSU.

Paul
  #8  
Old August 9th 05, 01:10 AM
Dragoncarer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dragoncarer"
wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Might look at this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812145002

24pin Motherboard Cable to 20pin Power Supply

Don't confuse with cheaper parts that are "20 pin Motherboard cable to
24pin power supply." They aren't the same thing. My 24pin
powersupply lets me detach the extra 4 pins for 20 pin motherboards.


Hey, thanks! So it looks like there are def. adapters out the I
thought
there might be, but hadn't got around to looking for any (I live in
Australia btw).

My only reservation is (noob question coming up): is the adapter able to
draw the requisite power for the 4 individual cables/pins? Surely it
would
have to spread the supply coming from the 20 existing pins over the
additional 4...how can the adapter draw the extra 4 pins' power
requirements?

Many, many thanks.


As you have surmised, using an adapter cable, to go from a 20 pin
PSU to a 24 pin connector that fits the motherboard, solves nothing.

The feature edavid3001 describes is a good one - there are supplies
with 24 pin connectors, where four pins on the connector detach, and
the remaining 20 pin section can plug into a 20 pin motherboard.
No rules are violated by doing that. (Just make sure all pins of
the detachable connector are properly seated, when plugging into
the motherboard. A loose connection can also cause the plastic to
melt.)

Similarly, if you uses a 24 pin (PSU end) to 20 pin (mobo end)
adapter, the wire and pin ratios are preserved in the assembly,
so no rules are being broken.

But a simple 20 pin (PSU end) to 24 pin (mobo end) is cheating,
and the same current flow limits could cause the adapter's
pins to get hot, melting the plastic at the PSU end of the
adapter. If the current in the 12V mobo distribution stays
below 6 amps, there would be no problem with the adapter, but
no significant advantage either. This is one adapter I wouldn't
bother with.

If you can afford two PCI Express video cards to run SLI, chances
are you can afford to buy a decent PSU to feed them. An existing
PSU is not likely to have enough max output amps on the label
to meet a load like that, so when you switch to an SLI configuration
is a good time to upgrade the PSU.

Paul


*sigh*....yeah. It's a 500W PSU, but it's a bit old now and came with my
original case. Thes solution you describe is the one I was starting to think
I would have to do anyway.
Once again Paul, you've been of tremendous help. Thanks heaps.


 




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