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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest.
Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. I don't thnk there is room in a SFF case for a second fan. |
#2
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
On 1/22/2017 5:48 PM, micky wrote:
The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. I don't thnk there is room in a SFF case for a second fan. I wondered about that heating issue myself, found these articles, based on them - if you do any heavy processing you might want to monitor your temperatures closely to see if you need more cooling. But since you're already running 'borderline hot' I would improve the cooling based on that comment alone. 4 sticks of ram will definately create more heat than 2 sticks of ram. However the amount is very miniscule compared to say something like your CPU or GPU. Why are you worried about heat from RAM? They output very very little. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/309410-30-heat One potential drawback of adding RAM to a laptop is that it can lead to increased processor usage and heat generation. The more RAM you have, the more data you will be able to send to the processor, which allows for better computing speeds, but can also make the processor reach 100% of its processing power. When a CPU nears 100% utilization, it will generate more heat. If it gets too hot, the computer may shut down to avoid damage. https://www.techwalla.com/articles/t...ry-on-a-laptop More electronic circuitry, more power consumption, more heat. But it will be relatively insignificant. The major source of heat in all computers is the CPU. The heat generated from RAM is miniscule in comparison. http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/add...enerates-heat/ |
#3
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
micky wrote:
Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Impossible question, e.g. this machine is 64 bit, has 8GB and no fan, not even any ventilation slots. Does that make it better or worse? |
#4
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
micky wrote:
The thread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. I don't thnk there is room in a SFF case for a second fan. For a given square dimension of fan (80mm in your case), there are two ways to increase airflow. Make the fan thicker (go from 25mm to 37.5mm thick), or increase the rotating speed. For example, to get away from the "average" 35CFM 80mm fan, make it spin at 4000RPM. The noise would drive you nuts! A typical fan might be 1200RPM to 1800RPM or so. It's no accident that the average fan is 35CFM - that's the "threshold of annoying". https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16835129238 Make sure that the case has sufficient intake vents. And that any intakes are clear of debris. For example, Antec Sonata cases have a window-screen air filter in the front bezel, which must be cleaned every three months. I just remove the filter and don't install it. On my Antecs, I remove a portion of the plastic front bezel, to leave more intake vent holes. Some exhaust vents are fairly restrictive. You could "dremel" off the honeycomb filter, and put a wire finger guard in its place (the same guard as they use on ATX supplies), for less arrestance. Any time you do metalwork on a PC, pull *all* the hardware out of the case, and thoroughly vacuum out the metal filings before reassembly. Those are examples of simple fixes. ******* The best memory config for dual channel four slot desktops, is to fill only two slots. Like this. none DIMM none DIMM That leaves room for cooling. No augmentation is necessary. If you do it this way... DIMM DIMM DIMM DIMM there is a tendency for the middle two DIMMs to run a bit warmer. If the DIMMs are luke-warm, you probably don't have a problem. For example, on my newest PC, the DIMMs all touch. There are no air gaps at all for the center DIMMs. Older PCs might have a tiny bit more room. And note that, figuring out memory power is *not* additive. The four DIMM config above, does *not* draw twice the power of the two DIMM config. The additional DIMMs, for accounting purposes, run in Refresh mode. Because, only one DIMM per channel, can be doing the expensive Read or Write cycle at a given time. It's because of this, that the second DIMM per channel causes a modest increase in overall power. The power a DIMM burns, is related to the "cycle mix". When a computer is in "Sleep" mode, that's when you get a chance to empirically measure the "Refresh" power. While the computer sleeps, the chips are all in auto refresh. Now, these aren't very direct measures, but on my machine with 8 DIMMs, it draws 7.5W while sleeping. On my 4 DIMM computer, when it sleeps, it draws 5W of power. This is just to give the basic idea, that a sleeping DIMM is around 1 watt. So when you add a second DIMM to a channel, both DIMMs on a channel cannot do Writes at the same time. They could both Refresh. One could Refresh, one could Write. It means the "average" power per DIMM is now lower, because on average, they get to do Refresh cycles more often, in lieu of the more expensive Read or Write cycles. When you get a DIMM datasheet, it has a power number. Like, 2 watts. That figure is attained, using an "Industry standard cycle mix". In other words, all the manufacturers agree to spec the memory with 30% writes, and other percentages for Refresh or whatever. They then quote a single, monolithic power number of "2 watts". But, as a stingy user, if you're saving watts, you should know, that on average, the second DIMM added to a channel, from a statistic perspective, is running in Refresh the whole time, so it counts as "1 watt". So two DIMMs on a channel would be "3 watts". A single DIMM on a channel is "2 watts". These are all just rough rules of thumb. If you download an actual memory chip datasheet, it gives a breakout of the power for *every* cycle type. When Kingston quotes a power number for their DIMM, they just take a spreadsheet, dump in the detailed numbers from the memory chip datasheet, apply the industry standard cycle mix, and put the resulting number in the DIMM data sheet as "2 watts". A user, if they wanted, could reproduce some of that arithmetic on their own. When you don't populate a memory channel with a DIMM at all, the terminator power is effectively turned off. The pad drivers on the channel could be disabled. This saves a watt on the Northbridge. So using one DIMM, is the absolutely lowest power config you can have. Adding a second DIMM to the *same* channel, adds the lowest incremental power increase (because for accounting purposes, the second DIMM sits in Refresh all the time). When you populate both channels with one DIMM, it leaves nice air gaps for cooling. When you fill all four slots, it's pretty hard for the middle DIMMs (even though their average power is now a bit lower), to get cooling. I've only added a fan over DIMMs just one time. And the DIMMs were running at *normal* VDimm and were not boosted. I stuck a finger on the new modules, and they were running pretty hot. That does not normally happen. Even the new computer, where the modules touch, I haven't augmented the DIMM cooling on them. I used the finger test, and they were OK. Paul |
#5
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
"micky" wrote
| It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put | in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see | through the plastic grill on the front of the box. Definitely vacuum out the dust. Carefully. I wonder what you mean by borderline hot. Different CPUs have different ratings. I've never heard of RAM being especially sensitive. In general, why have a small case with tight quarters and limited expandabilitiy if you don't have to? It makes sense for portability. If your computer stays put then small makes little sense. And it usually costs more. I just use a typical fan in a mid-tower, but the AMD CPUs I use have had built-in temp control for years now, and I use a water-cooled heat sink. HWMonitor tells me I'm currently running at 87F and 76F. I assume that's CPU and board, respectively. Temp flow around the two hard disks is in the 60s. (We keep the thermostat in the low 60s in the Winter.) One thing I do with all computers I build: Most cases these days have holes everywhere. I don't know why. It seems to be an idea that hotshots will want about 8 large fans. But that means arbitrary air flow. I use a single rear fan and add filters to holes I want to use. Mostly I like to use the front holes, so that air is drawn across the board and drives. I also use the side hole across from the board. The other holes I cover. For filter material I buy a green pad that's sold as furnace filter at Home Depot. It comes with plastic grid. Using plastic ties it's easy to cut any size filter and grid, then attach it using the ties through case holes. I then occasionaly vacuum the filter by just running the vacuum nozzle along the outside of the case, over the vent holes. That keeps the inside pretty much dust-free. If you don't use filters you get a blanket of dust and may also get greasy residue if smoking or cooking fumes are nearby. |
#6
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
On 1/22/2017 8:48 PM, micky wrote:
The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. I don't thnk there is room in a SFF case for a second fan. How well designed is the computer in question? I have three 'small form factor PCs' in the form of two Shuttle cubes and an even-smaller mini-ITX system. The newest Shuttle has 32gB of memory and a relatively serious graphics card and is served by a single 3" fan for both the case and CPU cooling and the cores in that never get beyond ~70C when running all-out at 100%. The mini-ITX is not so well designed and I worked for a long time reworking the case's poorly-considered cooling solution and it needs a server-grade heatsink and fan on the CPU and a high-volume 12cm extracting air from the front (after I performed surgery on the front panel) to maintain the sort of cooling Shuttle accomplishes with a single 3" fan. Considering that a stick of high-performance DDR3 probably uses 5W at the max and then only occasionally I can't see adding a few of them would push and decent computer over the cliff. |
#7
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
On 01/22/2017 08:48 PM, micky wrote:
The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? The future is 64bit. Many apps no longer offer 32 bit executables. Stay current, use the full capability. Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? In theory the more memory you have the less work your hardware will have to do in the form of swaps/disk access. Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. Don't delay on cleaning out the dust! I don't thnk there is room in a SFF case for a second fan. |
#8
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:26:47 -0500, Innocuous
wrote: On 01/22/2017 08:48 PM, micky wrote: The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? The future is 64bit. The near future. Who knows what the more distant future may use? 128-bit? 256-bit? It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. Don't delay on cleaning out the dust! Yes, and clean out the dust by blowing it out with a can of compressed air. Do not use a vacuum cleaner, which can provide an electrostatic discharge and fry components. |
#9
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
micky wrote:
The t hread about free installation of 10 has piqued my interest. Which is better, a small form factor PC running a 64bit version of 10 using 8Gigs RAM, or a full size case running a 32bit version with 4gigs? Alternatively, I ordered 8gigs for my computer that had the bad memory** Does that mean I need a bigger fan? Do they sell more powerful fans that will fit the same spot. It's only about 3x3"!! It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see through the plastic grill on the front of the box. Start by cleaning out the dust. My laptop died and I was very skeptical when I was told that it was caused by the dust but cleaning it worked. If possible use an air compressor to blow out the dust rather than vacuuming it. |
#10
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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 23 Jan 2017 09:53:12 -0500,
"Mayayana" wrote: "micky" wrote | It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put I should have said that I was referring to CPU here. (Although Speccy does also give a temp for the Seagate hardddrive, and even one for the WD external harddrive!! (though not the Seagate external HDD. They are both in the same USB dock.) More below | in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see | through the plastic grill on the front of the box. Definitely vacuum out the dust. Carefully. I wonder what you mean by borderline hot. Different CPUs have different ratings. I've never heard of RAM being especially sensitive. In general, why have a small case with tight quarters and limited expandabilitiy if you don't have to? It makes sense for portability. If your computer stays put then small makes little sense. And it usually costs more. I just use a typical fan in a mid-tower, but the AMD CPUs I use have had built-in temp control for years now, and I use a water-cooled heat sink. HWMonitor tells me I'm currently running at 87F and 76F. I assume that's CPU and board, respectively. Temp flow around the two hard disks is in the 60s. (We keep the thermostat in the low 60s in the Winter.) One thing I do with all computers I build: Most cases these days have holes everywhere. I don't know why. It seems to be an idea that hotshots will want about 8 large fans. But that means arbitrary air flow. I use a single rear fan and add filters to holes I want to use. Mostly I like to use the front holes, so that air is drawn across the board and drives. I also use the side hole across from the board. The other holes I cover. For filter material I buy a green pad that's sold as furnace filter at Home Depot. It comes with plastic grid. Using plastic ties it's easy to cut any size filter and grid, then attach it using the ties through case holes. I then occasionaly vacuum the filter by just running the vacuum nozzle along the outside of the case, over the vent holes. That keeps the inside pretty much dust-free. If you don't use filters you get a blanket of dust and may also get greasy residue if smoking or cooking fumes are nearby. I havent' done much work yet but these programs disagree about the temperatu Core Temp 1.5 says my cores are each from 35 to 37C. Anvir says my CPU is 40C, though that's the same temp it says my C: drive is. And Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems. Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me. I looked other times too and Core-temp is always 5^C (9^F!) lower than Speccy. Don't they use the same sensor? |
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