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USB hubs
Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive
bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. |
#2
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USB hubs
Loren Pechtel wrote:
Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. The Hub design, can only be as good as the chip inside it. This article, mentions TI makes a USB3 hub chip, as well as VIA. But the article is from 2010, so hopefully there are more sources by now. http://semiaccurate.com/2010/09/29/t...ur-usb3-chips/ You'd need to examine the bad designs, and see if they all used the same chip or not. (There aren't a lot of 5.25" bay designs on Newegg, and, no good pictures either.) USB3 uses super-high-speed electrical signals, and if the designer makes a cheap non-compliant PCB, that could cause problems as well. A slight non-compliance, could cause more data retransmissions (that is, if the protocol supports it). When you install USB3 in the computer itself (built-in USB3 on motherboard chipset, separate NEC chip, separate plug-in card), if you have an older OS, there is a driver package to install. On a much later OS, the driver package may be built-in. If your hub has problems, the problems might actually trace back to the driver package used for the computer end of the problem. If the drivers for the motherboard or add-in card aren't good, maybe you'll get a "dong loop" when connecting the hub. If so, it might not be the actual hub design, which is bad. It could be the original third-party drivers you added. Paul |
#3
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USB hubs
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 20:39:10 -0500, Paul wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. The Hub design, can only be as good as the chip inside it. This article, mentions TI makes a USB3 hub chip, as well as VIA. But the article is from 2010, so hopefully there are more sources by now. http://semiaccurate.com/2010/09/29/t...ur-usb3-chips/ You'd need to examine the bad designs, and see if they all used the same chip or not. (There aren't a lot of 5.25" bay designs on Newegg, and, no good pictures either.) USB3 uses super-high-speed electrical signals, and if the designer makes a cheap non-compliant PCB, that could cause problems as well. A slight non-compliance, could cause more data retransmissions (that is, if the protocol supports it). When you install USB3 in the computer itself (built-in USB3 on motherboard chipset, separate NEC chip, separate plug-in card), if you have an older OS, there is a driver package to install. On a much later OS, the driver package may be built-in. If your hub has problems, the problems might actually trace back to the driver package used for the computer end of the problem. If the drivers for the motherboard or add-in card aren't good, maybe you'll get a "dong loop" when connecting the hub. If so, it might not be the actual hub design, which is bad. It could be the original third-party drivers you added. I haven't actually bought a 3.0 hub. It's just I found myself wanting 3.0 ports on the front panel and I've got a space a hub could go in--I would have thought that was a perfect combination. It's just that when I read the reviews I find the hardware is junk--things like early deaths. That's not a bad driver. I even found one external hub that committed the old sin of feeding voltage back along the link to the computer. Some machines won't POST with such a misbehaving hub plugged in and in my experience the port they are plugged into tends to fail in time. |
#4
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USB hubs
Loren Pechtel wrote:
I haven't actually bought a 3.0 hub. It's just I found myself wanting 3.0 ports on the front panel and I've got a space a hub could go in--I would have thought that was a perfect combination. It's just that when I read the reviews I find the hardware is junk--things like early deaths. That's not a bad driver. I even found one external hub that committed the old sin of feeding voltage back along the link to the computer. Some machines won't POST with such a misbehaving hub plugged in and in my experience the port they are plugged into tends to fail in time. An external hub, with a separate power supply, should use something like a relay to prevent backfeed. The relay opens, whenever the AC adapter is inserted, such that backfeed can't happen. When the AC adapter isn't powered, then the relay switches back to using VBUS. I found that in an application note, that tells you how to design USB2 external hubs (ones that come with their own power adapter). ******* The only "early death" scenario I can envision on USB3, would be if inappropriate voltages appear on the high speed diff pair data signals. And the mechanical details of the connector design, should be preventing most of that. Only a motivated individual with a piece of wire in hand, might manage to attach a wrong voltage to one of those pins. Normal handling should not do it. And, to some extent, there should be clamp diodes on the bus signals, to protect against a bit of static discharge. On the USB2 designs, for example Intel, they could take 5 to 6 kV on the data pins, from ESD (human body model). Which is pretty high by normal standards. I haven't seen a figure expressed for USB3, but it's likely a lot lower value of protection. The more protection, the higher the capacitance associated with the protection device, and it ruins the signal quality if you use "too good" a form of static protection. It involves trade-offs. That being said, if I was fitting USB3 to the front of the chassis, I would try to use a *metal* tray that makes contact with the chassis. The idea is, to drain the shield of the USB connector on the tray, into the chassis. On lots of computer cases, the front panel is made from plastic, and that's a horrible choice of materials for preventing ESD problems. The rear I/O connector area (that metal plate), is there to encourage a short ESD discharge path, into the chassis. It isn't absolute protection, but it helps. The front of the computer, is poorly designed by comparison. As most use plastic on the front. An ESD discharge, then is forced to flow down the internal cabling, and into the motherboard. The induced voltage (by transformer action, in the cable), causes ESD to also appear on the data signal wires. That's my suspicion how it gets blown. Even USB2 chips have had problems like that. Check with an owner of a NEC USB2 chip equipped PCI card, and chances are that one or two ports are blown on it. Some chips seem to hold up better than others. The NEC chip, is otherwise a good buy (driver compatibility). And if you blow all the ports on it, it's $10-$15 for another one. Paul |
#5
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USB hubs
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:53:14 -0800, Loren Pechtel
wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and works perfectly. http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Inte...4810688&sr=8-1 (Amazon UK) -- Robin Bignall Herts, England |
#6
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USB hubs
Robin Bignall wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:53:14 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and works perfectly. http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Inte...4810688&sr=8-1 (Amazon UK) On the same theme, I notice they make chips now, that go from PCI Express x1 slot to 4 USB3 ports. This is the NEC one, but there is one other brand as well. http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/...0201/index.jsp As a result, they can do cards like this. This fits in a PCI Express x1 slot, and gives two external ports (on the back of the computer), and via a tray mount extension, gives two more ports on the front of the computer. I was not able to find a card that consisted of only internal ports (so you could do four on the front of the computer). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1JM0FD7215 The only place I could find an extension cable for the motherboard USB3 (pin) header, was something like this. Which might be another ugly way to place a connector somewhere. The faceplate unscrews, but you may have to do some machining to mount it somewhere. I saw another one with a slightly longer cable. The cable on this might be too short to be useful. http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?..._detail&p=4699 Paul |
#7
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USB hubs
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 16:20:40 +0000, Robin Bignall
wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:53:14 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and works perfectly. http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Inte...4810688&sr=8-1 (Amazon UK) That's simply a USB 3.0 card, not a drive bay hub. |
#8
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USB hubs
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 12:08:01 -0500, Paul wrote:
Robin Bignall wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:53:14 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and works perfectly. http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Inte...4810688&sr=8-1 (Amazon UK) On the same theme, I notice they make chips now, that go from PCI Express x1 slot to 4 USB3 ports. This is the NEC one, but there is one other brand as well. http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/...0201/index.jsp As a result, they can do cards like this. This fits in a PCI Express x1 slot, and gives two external ports (on the back of the computer), and via a tray mount extension, gives two more ports on the front of the computer. I was not able to find a card that consisted of only internal ports (so you could do four on the front of the computer). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1JM0FD7215 The only place I could find an extension cable for the motherboard USB3 (pin) header, was something like this. Which might be another ugly way to place a connector somewhere. The faceplate unscrews, but you may have to do some machining to mount it somewhere. I saw another one with a slightly longer cable. The cable on this might be too short to be useful. http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?..._detail&p=4699 Paul http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815150170 PCI slot, one port on the back, 4 in a drive bay. Read the reviews, though. |
#9
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USB hubs
Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 12:08:01 -0500, Paul wrote: Robin Bignall wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:53:14 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote: Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink. I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and works perfectly. http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Inte...4810688&sr=8-1 (Amazon UK) On the same theme, I notice they make chips now, that go from PCI Express x1 slot to 4 USB3 ports. This is the NEC one, but there is one other brand as well. http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/...0201/index.jsp As a result, they can do cards like this. This fits in a PCI Express x1 slot, and gives two external ports (on the back of the computer), and via a tray mount extension, gives two more ports on the front of the computer. I was not able to find a card that consisted of only internal ports (so you could do four on the front of the computer). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1JM0FD7215 The only place I could find an extension cable for the motherboard USB3 (pin) header, was something like this. Which might be another ugly way to place a connector somewhere. The faceplate unscrews, but you may have to do some machining to mount it somewhere. I saw another one with a slightly longer cable. The cable on this might be too short to be useful. http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?..._detail&p=4699 Paul http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815150170 PCI slot, one port on the back, 4 in a drive bay. Read the reviews, though. Yes, but that one, is a controller chip plus a hub chip, like this. If you have a phobia about "hub-chip", this isn't for you. PCI-E x1 ------- two-port USB3 --------- External connector, back host controller ---+ | cable | +--- hub-chip ---- bay port #1 ---- bay port #2 ---- bay port #3 ---- bay port #4 The one I was showing, was a four port controller based design, which works like this. There's no chip at all in the tray mounted portion. Just connectors. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1JM0FD7215 PCI-E x1 ------- four-port USB3 ------ External, back, Port #1 host controller ------ External, back, Port #2 ----+ --+ | | +--- Bay connector #3 +----- Bay connector #4 The difference in the latter one, is no hub-chip. Paul |
#10
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USB hubs
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:20:42 -0500, Paul wrote:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815150170 PCI slot, one port on the back, 4 in a drive bay. Read the reviews, though. Yes, but that one, is a controller chip plus a hub chip, like this. If you have a phobia about "hub-chip", this isn't for you. I don't have a phobia about a hub chip, I just want one that's built well. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1JM0FD7215 At least that doesn't have stinky reviews. On the other hand it seems to have none at all anywhere. |
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