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RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 26th 21, 09:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.

That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )

Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?

I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?


------

Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.

Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.

Does any of that matter?


------

FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."

Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)

But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.
  #2  
Old January 26th 21, 11:39 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
David W. Hodgins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:56:05 -0500, micky wrote:

I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.


According to HP, https://www.support.hp.com/us-en/doc...c03832938#AbT5
it should work with any ram that fits the description
1600-MHz DDR3 SDRAM; (4) DIMM slots enabling up to 32 GB, dual channel memory support

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...c03831415#AbT5
shows the following part numbers for ram ...
Component

Option Part Number
HP 4GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) DIMM B4U36AA
HP 8GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) DIMM BU37AA

If you buy it from hp ...
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...sodimm/5392599
it's 1.35v.

I'd stick with what hp is recommending. I haven't checked it's manuals, but
with ram it usually requires two memory cards at a time.
https://www.memory4less.com/hp-8gb-ddr3-pc12800-bu37aa shows it's available
at $68.40 each.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change to for
email replies.
  #3  
Old January 27th 21, 12:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

On 1/26/21 1:56 PM, micky wrote:
I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.

That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )

Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?

I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?


------

Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.

Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.

Does any of that matter?


------

FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."

Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)

But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.


Hi Micky,

Call Kingston tech support and describe the issue to them:

877-546-4786
714-435-2600

Kingston's customer service is something to behold.
Because of it. I only sell their memory, unless they
don't carry what I need. They really, really back
their stuff up.

-T

  #4  
Old January 27th 21, 12:22 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

micky wrote:
I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.

That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )

Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?

I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?


------

Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.

Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.

Does any of that matter?


------

FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."

Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)

But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.


1.35V DIMMs run in a 1.5V motherboard.

There should be a FAQ with the details around somewhere.

https://superuser.com/questions/5641...y-or-overclock

The opposite would not work. There would be some AMD motherboards,
where the board spec will say "DDR3L only". If you ran a 1.5V
DIMM in a 1.35V motherboard, the memory would have errors but
nothing would burn.

Yours is more likely to be a 1.5V and runs either,

*******

The HP page says it supports 8GB modules. For least risk then,
we'd want those to be "2R" double sided ones. That's because it
is possible to make single sided 8GB modules, but that would not
necessarily be a good choice for this upgrade. (High density
modules, sometimes half the memory is not detected.)

1600-MHz DDR3 SDRAM; (4) DIMM slots enabling up to 32GB

When you buy Crucial, they're pretty good at working that out.

Kingston are on my less-trustworthy list now, because
they screwed over a poster by shipping single sided
DIMMs when the datasheet said the product would be
double sided. Once a company does that, their rep
becomes ****.

*******

There's more I could write, but so much speculation is
involved, I'll quit while I'm ahead :-)

You really want that Crucial, because it's "ordinary"
and does not involve guesswork. The problem is, business
machines like that HP, the BIOS is "dumb as a post"
and is part of the problem rather than the solution.

You should run CPU-Z (portable edition will do), and
double check the "current running conditions" table,
as well as the SPD table (possible conditions). Just
to see whether the HP is even able to make the best
out of what you're running for RAM right now. If your
machine is a "sloppy jalopy", it'll be running the
1600 RAM at 1333, just because it's stoopid.

Most of my speculation problems involve not being
able to verify a candidate RAM is double sided. I don't
want you having to ship the RAM back because it is
only "half-detected".

This is an example of the level of detail available for RAM.
If CPUZ had done this (rather than the BIOS level test the
reviewer did), the table would have five lines. Three regular
and two XMP ones. Three other lines in the table are done
by the BIOS "via interpolation". There's no sign the table
in this one stops at 666 MHz on regular entries, so just maybe
there would be a happy ending in the HP machine.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...eil-3.1028883/

G.SKILL ARES F3-2133C9D-8GAB​

Profile CL RCD RP RAS RC RFC CR RRD WR WTR RTP FAW WCL Vdimm
457 MHz 6 6 6 16 22 74 - 3 7 4 4 14 - 1.50V
533 MHz 7 7 7 19 26 86 - 4 8 4 4 16 - 1.50V
609 MHz 8 8 8 22 30 98 - 4 10 5 5 19 - 1.50V
685 MHz 9 9 9 24 33 110 - 5 11 6 6 21 - 1.50V
761 MHz 10 10 10 27 37 122 - 5 12 6 6 23 - 1.50V
800 MHz 11 11 11 28 39 128 - 5 12 6 6 24 - 1.50V
XMP #1 (DDR3-2133) 9 11 10 28 38 171 2 6 16 9 9 27 7 1.65V
XMP #2 (DDR3-2133) 9 11 10 28 38 171 2 6 16 8 8 27 7 1.65V

XMP has the ability to set the voltage as well as the timing,
and XMP is "automatic overclocking", taking a lot of the
guesswork out of the picture. But one of the problems
with it, is if you have a four slot machine, with four DIMMs,
the XMP setting does not apply. Only a few DIMMs have a four DIMM XMP
config, because by definition, "fully loaded buses don't come
with guarantees", and the manufacturer would need a lot of
test margin to be offering such. And at least some DIMMs,
don't have a lot of margin to begin with.

Good luck in the hunt, Obiwan.

Paul
  #5  
Old January 27th 21, 01:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

micky wrote:

I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B
DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,

Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


You're surprised that company suggests companyProduct?

The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.

I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?


Then you'll have to check what you have for the old sticks to get their
specs on voltage. Or you could use CPU-Z to look under the SPD tab to
see what the memory sticks say are their specs. SPD is what the
firmware on the stick says are its ratings, not at what someone happened
to set the BIOS clocks and voltages. If the BIOS is configured for Auto
config on memory, the SPD settings get used, but using the lowest common
denominators. If one stick has CAS 9 but another has CAS 11, then CAS
11 gets used. If one is at 1.35V but another is 1.5V then 1.5V gets
used. If you tweaked the memory settings for overclocking, or because
you found upping the voltage turns an iffy quality/brand of stick into a
reliable one, then only some SPD settings apply. You could check the
BIOS settings for memory to see if set to Auto or SPD, or if tweaked.

If you don't want to use CPU-Z, you can use WMIC in an admin-level
command shell to get some memory specs. See:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-g...tor-windows-10

However, I don't recall you can get the voltages for the existing memory
modules using WMIC. I suspect you need to look in the BIOS for that, or
use a tool that reports the memory voltage(s). CPU-Z's SPD tab shows
what the stick is rated, not what might be currently used. However,
both WMIC and CPU-Z will tell you the brand and model of the existing
memory modules, so you could look up the specs. At one time, I used to
use Speedfan, and it shows the current voltage for the memory sticks.

Some other hints at:
https://www.techwalla.com/articles/h...ck-ram-voltage.

FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."


Where do you think all those memory modules are manufactured? If the
item says it ships from China, that means the seller does not have
regional warehouses in your country to stock their products. If the
shipping time is a month, or longer (often 45 days), then the long delay
is because the item has yet to go through customs, and is not in stock
in a US-based warehouse.

https://www.newegg.com/tools/memory-...9%20500 08476

Using their Memory Finder, selecting the best brands, and ship from USA,
there were 38 matches. The SFF box takes up to 32 GB of memory. I'm
assuming the pics I saw of the mobo means you have 4 slots. Personally
I would buy all the same brand and model for all 4 sticks. I didn't see
Newegg selling a 4-stick 32GB set, so you'd get two 2-stick 16GB sets (2
sets of 8GB/module, 2 modules), but that's me to eliminate future
headaches and troubleshooting.

With Newegg, I make sure to select Newegg as the seller. Then I deal
with Newegg (usually quick and hassle-free) instead of a 3rd party
seller. With Walmart, I select Walmart as the retailer. To return
means either printing a prepaid return shipping label, or taking to a
local retail store. Lots of e-tail sites offer storefronts to 3rd party
sellers, but usually there's an option to search on items sold only by
the e-tail site, and not from some 3rd party storefront. I've bought
from Walmart but the item came from Mayfair which can be bitch for
returns/refunds and you pay the return shipping, but Walmart as seller
means I deal with Walmart which is much easier and faster (they dole out
a prepaid return shipping label, and issue a refund as soon as the
shipper's status shows they got the package). Amazon does NOT have a
"Seller = Amazon" option during search, and why I don't often go there.

By the way, Crucial, Kingston, and other name-brand memory sellers are
NOT memory manufacturers. They contract to get items that meet their
criteria for the product on which they slap on their sticker. When
buying those brands, it's because the manufacturer is obviously not
going to deal with a single-purchase of miniscule quantity, so you need
to buy from someone that buys in bulk from them, and you're paying for
their assurance regarding quality an accuracy. For example, I've bought
Corsair PSUs, but Corsair doesn't make 'em. If the ink doesn't get
lifted off the memory modules on the PCB, or they haven't washed the
card with acetone, you could peel off their sticker to see who actually
made the chips, or sometimes the entire assembly (PCB + chips).

But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.


With all else equal, 1.5V DIMMs consume a bit more power than 1.35V
DIMMs. Less power means less heat. See:

https://br.crucial.com/support/artic...voltage-memory

Just as with CAS, the SPD of all memory sticks is interrogated and the
slowest CAS is used across all sticks. Same for voltage: if you have a
1.5V DIMM and add a dual-voltage 1.35V/1.5V DIMM, all sticks run at
1.5V.

Alas, HP does not specify if they support just DDR3 or also DDR3L in
their product page. However, did you even read the manual? I found it
at:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...roubleshooting

and clicked on the "Manuals" link. They have a hardware manual. Read
it, especially page 21.

It's now up to YOU to figure out what you have for the old two 8GB
memory modules sitting in the mobo slots. The specs probably won't tell
you, especially since the mobo can handle dual voltage, and it was up to
whomever fabbed the mobo to decide what to install.
  #6  
Old January 28th 21, 12:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

In alt.comp.hardware, on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:22:59 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:
I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC
Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor
Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B
DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,
Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8
Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98
The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.
That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )
Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?
I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?
------
Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.
Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.
Does any of that matter?
------
FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."
Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)
But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.


1.35V DIMMs run in a 1.5V motherboard.

There should be a FAQ with the details around somewhere.

https://superuser.com/questions/5641...y-or-overclock


First answer is: As far as I know, the voltage of the board in the bios
shows the max voltage that can be drawn by the hardware, so if the RAM
only draws 1.35, that's all it should use. I'm not 100% though so this
is purely a comment, not an answer.

That's for sure, it's not an answer, because his first sentence shows he
doesn't know how electricity works. bg

The opposite would not work. There would be some AMD motherboards,
where the board spec will say "DDR3L only". If you ran a 1.5V
DIMM in a 1.35V motherboard, the memory would have errors but
nothing would burn.

Yours is more likely to be a 1.5V and runs either,


Great and that's confirmed below iiuc

*******

The HP page says it supports 8GB modules. For least risk then,
we'd want those to be "2R" double sided ones. That's because it
is possible to make single sided 8GB modules, but that would not
necessarily be a good choice for this upgrade. (High density
modules, sometimes half the memory is not detected.)


Oh, 2R. Okay! The ones in there now are double sided, and I think I
should buy the same ones again. ??

1600-MHz DDR3 SDRAM; (4) DIMM slots enabling up to 32GB

When you buy Crucial, they're pretty good at working that out.

Kingston are on my less-trustworthy list now, because
they screwed over a poster by shipping single sided
DIMMs when the datasheet said the product would be
double sided. Once a company does that, their rep
becomes ****.

*******

There's more I could write, but so much speculation is
involved, I'll quit while I'm ahead :-)

You really want that Crucial, because it's "ordinary"
and does not involve guesswork. The problem is, business
machines like that HP, the BIOS is "dumb as a post"
and is part of the problem rather than the solution.

You should run CPU-Z (portable edition will do), and


I used to have that, but didn't really get any particular use out of it.

But this time it's of very clear use.

double check the "current running conditions" table,


I can't find that table.

as well as the SPD table (possible conditions). Just


One thing the SPD tab shows is that Jedec 3-6 are all 1.5 volts. I'm
looking for instructions. Is that the voltage it expects or what it is
getting?

https://tipsmake.com/instructions-fo...eters-provided

But it stops explaining before that line.


******* At any rate, CPU-Z gives the maker and model of the RAM and I
think maybe I should just buy two more sticks of the same thing. I
think someone here said having all 4 the same is good.

I ran Memtest8? last night for 8 hours and it found no errors. But
that just means the memory is good, iiuc, not that it is the right
memory. ??

to see whether the HP is even able to make the best
out of what you're running for RAM right now. If your
machine is a "sloppy jalopy", it'll be running the
1600 RAM at 1333, just because it's stoopid.

Most of my speculation problems involve not being
able to verify a candidate RAM is double sided. I don't
want you having to ship the RAM back because it is
only "half-detected".


So with CPU. I found that I have now two SAMSUNG M378B1G73DB0-CK0
which is out of stock several places but sdescribed on amazon as
8GB 2RX8 PC3-12800U

So buying the very same thing seems like a good idea, right?

Still I'd like to know all its variables to make sure the refurbisher
didn't put the wrong thing in. But Samsung is not doing very well here.
This looks like the page for DDR3
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/ddr3/ but it has no sticks
bigger than 4Gig.

Aha, I used the part numbers David posted and found that the remaining
parameters are correct:

Voltage 1.5V
Rank 2Rx8
Cas Latency CL11


This is an example of the level of detail available for RAM.
If CPUZ had done this (rather than the BIOS level test the
reviewer did), the table would have five lines. Three regular
and two XMP ones. Three other lines in the table are done
by the BIOS "via interpolation". There's no sign the table
in this one stops at 666 MHz on regular entries, so just maybe
there would be a happy ending in the HP machine.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...eil-3.1028883/

G.SKILL ARES F3-2133C9D-8GAB?

Profile CL RCD RP RAS RC RFC CR RRD WR WTR RTP FAW WCL Vdimm
457 MHz 6 6 6 16 22 74 - 3 7 4 4 14 - 1.50V
533 MHz 7 7 7 19 26 86 - 4 8 4 4 16 - 1.50V
609 MHz 8 8 8 22 30 98 - 4 10 5 5 19 - 1.50V
685 MHz 9 9 9 24 33 110 - 5 11 6 6 21 - 1.50V
761 MHz 10 10 10 27 37 122 - 5 12 6 6 23 - 1.50V
800 MHz 11 11 11 28 39 128 - 5 12 6 6 24 - 1.50V
XMP #1 (DDR3-2133) 9 11 10 28 38 171 2 6 16 9 9 27 7 1.65V
XMP #2 (DDR3-2133) 9 11 10 28 38 171 2 6 16 8 8 27 7 1.65V

XMP has the ability to set the voltage as well as the timing,
and XMP is "automatic overclocking", taking a lot of the
guesswork out of the picture. But one of the problems
with it, is if you have a four slot machine, with four DIMMs,
the XMP setting does not apply. Only a few DIMMs have a four DIMM XMP
config, because by definition, "fully loaded buses don't come
with guarantees", and the manufacturer would need a lot of
test margin to be offering such. And at least some DIMMs,
don't have a lot of margin to begin with.

Good luck in the hunt, Obiwan.


Tnank you, Captain.

Paul


  #7  
Old January 28th 21, 12:06 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

In alt.comp.hardware, on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:03:52 -0800, T
wrote:

On 1/26/21 1:56 PM, micky wrote:
I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.

That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )

Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?

I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?


------

Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.

Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.

Does any of that matter?


------

FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."

Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)

But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.


Hi Micky,

Call Kingston tech support and describe the issue to them:

877-546-4786
714-435-2600

Kingston's customer service is something to behold.
Because of it. I only sell their memory, unless they
don't carry what I need. They really, really back
their stuff up.

-T


Thanks. I almost did this but then saw that I had Samsung in there now.
So unless someone tells me I shouldn't, matching the dimms that are
there now is the right thing to do?

SAMSUNG M378B1G73DB0-CK0
  #8  
Old January 28th 21, 01:34 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

In alt.comp.hardware, on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:39:53 -0500, "David W.
Hodgins" wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:56:05 -0500, micky wrote:

I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC

Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor

Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B

DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,


Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8

Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98


The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.


According to HP, https://www.support.hp.com/us-en/doc...c03832938#AbT5
it should work with any ram that fits the description
1600-MHz DDR3 SDRAM; (4) DIMM slots enabling up to 32 GB, dual channel memory support

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...c03831415#AbT5
shows the following part numbers for ram ...
Component

Option Part Number
HP 4GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) DIMM B4U36AA
HP 8GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) DIMM BU37AA


Thanks Samsung didn't have any 8gig dimms listed where I looked, and
didn't have the 4 gig either, but I used the 8g part number above to
find the remaining specs of the Samsung dimms I already have in it, and
they match.

If you buy it from hp ...
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...sodimm/5392599
it's 1.35v.


This is a SODIMM. They make the EliteDesk800 in 4 configurations. The
2 bigger ones use DIMMs and the 2 smaller ones use SODIMMs. I'm a
little suprised they went to so much trouble to use the same name for
both.

I'd stick with what hp is recommending. I haven't checked it's manuals, but
with ram it usually requires two memory cards at a time.


Right.

https://www.memory4less.com/hp-8gb-ddr3-pc12800-bu37aa shows it's available
at $68.40 each.


This is it, but it's not exactly the same as the Samsung that's in there
now. Which is more important? :-(

The computer is probably older than I thought but the Samsung RAM was
made this past September!

Regards, Dave Hodgins


  #9  
Old January 28th 21, 03:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
David W. Hodgins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 20:34:59 -0500, micky wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware, on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:39:53 -0500, "David W.
Hodgins" wrote:
https://www.memory4less.com/hp-8gb-ddr3-pc12800-bu37aa shows it's available
at $68.40 each.


This is it, but it's not exactly the same as the Samsung that's in there
now. Which is more important? :-(


Well, you know that what's in there works. The above should work based on the
specs, and I'd be surprised if it didn't. Your choice though. :-)

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change to for
email replies.
  #10  
Old January 28th 21, 06:33 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default RAN 1.35v vs 1.5v

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware, on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:22:59 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:
I wanted to get more RAM for my newly-acquired PC
Entering the make and model, HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor
Crucial suggests only CT2K102464BD160B
DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V •
1024Meg x 64 • $76 even cheaper at NewEgg,
Kingston suggests only KCP316ND8/8
Specs: DDR3, 1600MHz, Non-ECC, CL11, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM,
240-pin, 2R, 4Gbit $98
The items are in different order but the main difference seems to me to
be 1.35v vs 1.5v.
That seems important, right? How can they be different for the same
computer? (I'm not really concerned about price unless they could sell
it cheaper by making it at the wrong, lower voltage. )
Do I need to look up what the computer puts out? Would one of these be
overclocked if the computer puts out 1.5v and the other underclocked if
the computer puts out 1.35?
I already have 2 sticks, Do I want to get the same voltage that they
use, whatever that is?
------
Other differences are
Crucial says PC3-12800 but Kingston doesn't include that.
Kingston says X8, 2R, 4Gbit but Crucial doesn't include any of that.
Does any of that matter?
------
FTR, I only looked at Newegg because Crucial was out of stock. NewEgg
says "Ships from China. Newegg Most customers receive within 10-32
days."
Hmm. At
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156047
it says sold and shipped by Ram-Store and when you click on 12 New from
$88.46 , it goes to the bottom of the page where they have 12 vendors
selling the same thing. Just like Amazon does it. I only looked at the
first 5 but one is in Hong Kong and "Most customers receive within 4-17
days.". One is in the US and "Most customers receive within 7-9 days",
all except Hong Kong for the same price!! (For Hong Kong and the next 7
the price gets higher.)
But this doesn't matter until I understand the voltage question.

1.35V DIMMs run in a 1.5V motherboard.

There should be a FAQ with the details around somewhere.

https://superuser.com/questions/5641...y-or-overclock


First answer is: As far as I know, the voltage of the board in the bios
shows the max voltage that can be drawn by the hardware, so if the RAM
only draws 1.35, that's all it should use. I'm not 100% though so this
is purely a comment, not an answer.


If your machine uses SODIMMs, I must have selected the wrong
item from the Crucial list.

If you have part numbers on the existing modules and you're
happy with them, then that's likely just as good of a
choice as anything else. If you got "fancy" products with
low CAS, they wouldn't help, because the slowest memory
in the machine determine the speed choice made by the BIOS.

But if supplies were limited (like the Crucial being out of
stock), I was looking around to see what could be fitted
from the existing pool of product.

I'm really surprised you can find branded Samsung DIMMs/SODIMMs.
Samsung sells product more to businesses than to end users.

The SPD table shows what the DIMM expects in terms of voltage.
The SPD chip receives power right away, and the BIOS reads the SPD.
The BIOS "turns on" the VDIMM regulator, only when it has
determined what the strategy is. So RAM is "commissioned"
by the BIOS POST process - and some of the BIOS code
runs without RAM for storage, and variables are stored
in CPU internal registers.

If the BIOS is unhappy with what it reads in the SPD table,
it will "beep". And occasionally a poster will post a question
about a BIOS that is beeping, when it should not. And in some
cases, it tries to match fields in the SPD that are
"don't cares". That means poorly prepared SPD table
contents, can result in surprises for users. One DIMM even
had the wrong SPD chip soldered to it :-) Clever.

Paul
 




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