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Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and'start fixing real problems'



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 17th 20, 01:06 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 6:08 p.m., Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-07-16 1:35 p.m., T wrote:
On 2020-07-15 11:42, VanguardLH wrote:
Is Linus
even a gamer?* Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for Linux.

Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming.* Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You make joke, Yes?* :-)

Rene


Are we playing "Sodoku" yet ?

** Paul


I don't know how to play 'Sodoku'
Too old to start now. :-)

Rene

  #22  
Old July 17th 20, 02:33 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 213
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:06:14 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-07-16 6:08 p.m., Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-07-16 1:35 p.m., T wrote:
On 2020-07-15 11:42, VanguardLH wrote:
Is Linus
even a gamer?* Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for Linux.

Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming.* Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho

You make joke, Yes?* :-)

Rene


Are we playing "Sodoku" yet ?

** Paul


I don't know how to play 'Sodoku'
Too old to start now. :-)


I know how to play but it's tedious, so I wrote a Sudoku solver in Excel
(using VBA). It's more fun to watch the puzzle being solved.

  #23  
Old July 17th 20, 02:35 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 16:33, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

On 2020-07-16 14:01, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Is Linus even a gamer? Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for
Linux.

Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming. Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho

You didn't provide a timemark for the related content, and I wasn't
going to watch all of the 22 minute video, so I moved the slider to skim
through it. The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could
now detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I saw
something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows games on
Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the Windows games
inside of WINE. Wonder how the benchmarks reflect the performance of a
Windows game running inside of WINE versus running the Windows game atop
Steam's shim.

https://itsfoss.com/steam-play/

Oh, so Steam Play simply provides a fork of WINE as its shim between the
native OS platform and the Windows-only game. The Windows games will
likely be impacted the same whether ran inside of WINE or Steam's
variant of WINE. I didn't even bother to address running anything
Windows inside of WINE or via any other emulation layer, like VMWare
Player for Linux running Windows as a guest OS and then running a
Windows game inside of that virtual machine. That something is doable
doesn't mean it should be.

That still means the games were *not* developed for the Linux platform.
They were written for the Windows platform. Guess I should've qualified
my statement by saying:

"Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection of native Linux games."

Do hardcore gamers even bother with WINE? Conversely, everything Linux
can be played on Windows, too, so the user could use a Windows platform
to play native Windows games and emulated Linux games. Is there much
draw for that scenario? You can even play Android apps on Windows by
using a shim aka emulator, like Bluestacks. There's native-on-native,
and then there are less-than-ideal workarounds.


Titus starts in with Lutris at about 7:25


He first shows installing Lutris (Open Gaming Platform) before
installing Steam Play. Is Lutris even needed to use Steam's dispatcher
to decide if a game's manifest says it is Windows-only to then run it
under Steam's Proton variant of WINE? Isn't Lutris a Linux game library
manager and launcher, and perhaps across multiple sources (Steam,
battle.net, GOG)?

The video author says Lutris has no documentation. Really? Learning is
solely by trial-and-error, or pleading for info in a user community?

Before all that, he installed rpmFusion to get all the libs that Redhat
doesn't include on which Lutris and Steam Play might be dependent.
Install this, a must. Maybe install that. Then install Steam Play. I
take it Lutris and Steam Play won't grab, download, and install any libs
they are dependent upon. Seems this could be further streamlined for a
bigger lure to users to leave Windows. Maybe the chained installs are
needed just for Fedora.


I can't comment on any of your questions I am not a gamer.

Folks will leave Windows when enough of they applications
they need are ported over. M$ rules the universe when
it comes to applications and some outer ring of hell
when it comes to quality and security.


  #24  
Old July 17th 20, 05:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

T wrote:

Folks will leave Windows when enough of they applications they need
are ported over. M$ rules the universe when it comes to applications
and some outer ring of hell when it comes to quality and security.


I think "catch 'em early" works better. School have and still do train
students on Windows. Chromebooks have penetrated schools more then
Linux. Users that, by choice, switch to Linux sometime later in their
lives are doing so due to curiosity, training, job requirements, using
the best platform for a critical task, or enlarge their expertise.
That's why Linux penetration has only been about 2% of the consumer PC
market. There already is good penetration into commercial use.

When schools are predominatly training students in an OS then the market
penetration goes up. The students take with them what they learned.
Microsoft learned that long ago. So did Apple. With so many Linux
variants and only a few commercial vendors (e.g., Redhat), free is not a
sufficient reason for mass migration to Linux. Get a gradually larger
student population to take Linux expertise into their homes and
workplace. Capture the minds and hearts of future computer users. Is
Linux deployed in pre-college schools for getting students intimate with
that OS?

http://linuxfederation.com/linux-part-school-education
(Yeah, it's a blog, so no datestamp as typical of blogs.)

https://opensource.com/article/18/3/...orward-schools

For well-rounded computer eduction, students should really be exposed to
multiple operating systems. Learn 'em, and let 'em choose.

However, businesses and even schools need support from the OS vendor.
Free doesn't include technical support. Those institutions don't look
firstly at the cost of a license. They look for support and its cost.
Not having robust support is costly. In-house training still has costs
and adds delay to acquire expertise. Like buying a printer, you figure
the Cost of Ownership is in the rate of use of the consumables (paper,
ink), and lastly consider the cost of the printer. The cost of OS
licenses is never discussed when we plan deployment of hosts, and
supporting them. The loss of use for a critical business app or suite
due to lack of support far exceeds free versus paid OS or software.
Cobol programmers are in high demand ($75K/year average base pay),
because colleges stopped teaching it long ago, so there aren't many
Cobol programmers around after attribtion of old farts that have retired
died off. Same for Fortran nowadays ($80K/year average base salary).
Companies are willing to pay for the expertise that is hard to find.
They couldn't give a gnat's fart about the costs for Cobol compiler
licenses. Losing a critical business program due to no support costs
way more, maybe even cause the company's demise.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Microsoft is planning a migration to a
Linux/Windows hybrid kernel with a Windows GUI. After all, Windows NT,
and up, which had an NT-based kernel still carried along the familiar
desktop GUI from the 9x/DOS frankenjob GUI. First it was Linux in their
Azure cloud service. Then they began releasing apps for Android and
Linux. They rolled in a Linux compatibility layer (Windows Subsystem
for Linux, or WSL, but no Linux kernel code) to run Linux binary
executables. Rolling in subsystems into Windows isn't new. NTFS is a
file subsystem, as are FAT, exFAT, and CDFS. WSL v2 was announced May
2019 which moved to a real Linux kernel (as a subset of Hyper-V
features). In 2016, WSL only provided an Ubuntu image. the Fall
Creators Update in Oct 2017 move to SUSE images. With WSL v2 in May
2019, Linux support moved to a Hyper-V VM-based backend instead of the
system-call adaption (compatibility) layer. We've been familiar with
VMMs (Virtual Machine Managers) using virtual machines running guest
OSes on Windows (or visa versa on Linux) for a long time. Microsoft
decided to use the Hyper-V VMM. They wanted a kernel-mode model instead
of user-mode solutions. Because of the extremely high adoption of
Windows versus Linux, there has been concern that WSL could be a way for
Microsoft to "embrace, extend, and extinguish Linux".

At first, WSL was available only for Pro and Enterprise editions of
Windows 10 x64. On July 2019, they granted its used on Home editions.
I run optionalfeatures.exe (run with admin permissionsto effect
changes), scroll down, and WSL is listed. I haven't yet played with
WSL, so it's currently disabled.

https://betanews.com/2018/03/06/debian-linux-windows/

"I am of the opinion that if you want to run an operating system based
on that open source kernel, then you should just do so natively -- not
on top of Windows."

Well, that is not accurate. Hyper-V (a native hypervisor) is a VMM but
it does *NOT* run in user-mode to manage VMs. It is a kernel-mode
service. Probably because the Linux images are represented as "apps" in
Microsoft's store is why that author thinks it is an app running atop of
Windows.

"Hyper-V implements isolation of virtual machines in terms of a
partition."

That's not a portion of an HDD or SDD where sectors are allocated in a
group for use by an OS or data. That's a hypervisor partition. IBM
mainframes 30+ years ago used similar hypervisors with OS isolation
partitions. I was helping the sysadmin migrate to a new version of VSE,
MVS, or VM by installing and configuring the new version of the OS in a
different partition that was not accessible to the users. When we were
ready, and late at night when the users were gone and after announcing
the switch (because any users connected to the OS version in the old
partition would get disconnected), we swapped which was the primary OS
partition. The users came in and found a new version of the OS was
ready. If there was a problem, we could switch back to the old OS
partition.

OS partition (Hyper-V) hierarchy
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...px-Hyper-V.png

Yes, every hypervisor is itself an OS, but the working Windows image and
Linux image are not "running atop Windows". Users aren't using the
Hyper-V OS for their work. They're using the VM of Windows managed by
Hyper-V. Well, that's how it works for the server version. Only admins
go into the Hyper-V OS to configure it. That's a distant memory since I
haven't looked at Hyper-V for years.
  #25  
Old July 17th 20, 05:49 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

Char Jackson wrote:

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Paul wrote:

Are we playing "Sodoku" yet ?


I don't know how to play 'Sodoku'
Too old to start now. :-)


I know how to play but it's tedious, so I wrote a Sudoku solver in Excel
(using VBA). It's more fun to watch the puzzle being solved.


Does it take coffee and bathroom breaks, too?
  #26  
Old July 17th 20, 06:35 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 21:47, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Folks will leave Windows when enough of they applications they need
are ported over. M$ rules the universe when it comes to applications
and some outer ring of hell when it comes to quality and security.


I think "catch 'em early" works better. School have and still do train
students on Windows. Chromebooks have penetrated schools more then
Linux. Users that, by choice, switch to Linux sometime later in their
lives are doing so due to curiosity, training, job requirements, using
the best platform for a critical task, or enlarge their expertise.
That's why Linux penetration has only been about 2% of the consumer PC
market. There already is good penetration into commercial use.

When schools are predominatly training students in an OS then the market
penetration goes up. The students take with them what they learned.
Microsoft learned that long ago. So did Apple. With so many Linux
variants and only a few commercial vendors (e.g., Redhat), free is not a
sufficient reason for mass migration to Linux. Get a gradually larger
student population to take Linux expertise into their homes and
workplace. Capture the minds and hearts of future computer users. Is
Linux deployed in pre-college schools for getting students intimate with
that OS?

http://linuxfederation.com/linux-part-school-education
(Yeah, it's a blog, so no datestamp as typical of blogs.)

https://opensource.com/article/18/3/...orward-schools

For well-rounded computer eduction, students should really be exposed to
multiple operating systems. Learn 'em, and let 'em choose.

However, businesses and even schools need support from the OS vendor.
Free doesn't include technical support. Those institutions don't look
firstly at the cost of a license. They look for support and its cost.
Not having robust support is costly. In-house training still has costs
and adds delay to acquire expertise. Like buying a printer, you figure
the Cost of Ownership is in the rate of use of the consumables (paper,
ink), and lastly consider the cost of the printer. The cost of OS
licenses is never discussed when we plan deployment of hosts, and
supporting them. The loss of use for a critical business app or suite
due to lack of support far exceeds free versus paid OS or software.
Cobol programmers are in high demand ($75K/year average base pay),
because colleges stopped teaching it long ago, so there aren't many
Cobol programmers around after attribtion of old farts that have retired
died off. Same for Fortran nowadays ($80K/year average base salary).
Companies are willing to pay for the expertise that is hard to find.
They couldn't give a gnat's fart about the costs for Cobol compiler
licenses. Losing a critical business program due to no support costs
way more, maybe even cause the company's demise.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Microsoft is planning a migration to a
Linux/Windows hybrid kernel with a Windows GUI. After all, Windows NT,
and up, which had an NT-based kernel still carried along the familiar
desktop GUI from the 9x/DOS frankenjob GUI. First it was Linux in their
Azure cloud service. Then they began releasing apps for Android and
Linux. They rolled in a Linux compatibility layer (Windows Subsystem
for Linux, or WSL, but no Linux kernel code) to run Linux binary
executables. Rolling in subsystems into Windows isn't new. NTFS is a
file subsystem, as are FAT, exFAT, and CDFS. WSL v2 was announced May
2019 which moved to a real Linux kernel (as a subset of Hyper-V
features). In 2016, WSL only provided an Ubuntu image. the Fall
Creators Update in Oct 2017 move to SUSE images. With WSL v2 in May
2019, Linux support moved to a Hyper-V VM-based backend instead of the
system-call adaption (compatibility) layer. We've been familiar with
VMMs (Virtual Machine Managers) using virtual machines running guest
OSes on Windows (or visa versa on Linux) for a long time. Microsoft
decided to use the Hyper-V VMM. They wanted a kernel-mode model instead
of user-mode solutions. Because of the extremely high adoption of
Windows versus Linux, there has been concern that WSL could be a way for
Microsoft to "embrace, extend, and extinguish Linux".

At first, WSL was available only for Pro and Enterprise editions of
Windows 10 x64. On July 2019, they granted its used on Home editions.
I run optionalfeatures.exe (run with admin permissionsto effect
changes), scroll down, and WSL is listed. I haven't yet played with
WSL, so it's currently disabled.

https://betanews.com/2018/03/06/debian-linux-windows/

"I am of the opinion that if you want to run an operating system based
on that open source kernel, then you should just do so natively -- not
on top of Windows."

Well, that is not accurate. Hyper-V (a native hypervisor) is a VMM but
it does *NOT* run in user-mode to manage VMs. It is a kernel-mode
service. Probably because the Linux images are represented as "apps" in
Microsoft's store is why that author thinks it is an app running atop of
Windows.

"Hyper-V implements isolation of virtual machines in terms of a
partition."

That's not a portion of an HDD or SDD where sectors are allocated in a
group for use by an OS or data. That's a hypervisor partition. IBM
mainframes 30+ years ago used similar hypervisors with OS isolation
partitions. I was helping the sysadmin migrate to a new version of VSE,
MVS, or VM by installing and configuring the new version of the OS in a
different partition that was not accessible to the users. When we were
ready, and late at night when the users were gone and after announcing
the switch (because any users connected to the OS version in the old
partition would get disconnected), we swapped which was the primary OS
partition. The users came in and found a new version of the OS was
ready. If there was a problem, we could switch back to the old OS
partition.

OS partition (Hyper-V) hierarchy
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...px-Hyper-V.png

Yes, every hypervisor is itself an OS, but the working Windows image and
Linux image are not "running atop Windows". Users aren't using the
Hyper-V OS for their work. They're using the VM of Windows managed by
Hyper-V. Well, that's how it works for the server version. Only admins
go into the Hyper-V OS to configure it. That's a distant memory since I
haven't looked at Hyper-V for years.


My experience has been different:

When I was a youngster, the colleges trained on Apple.
The minute grads hit industry, they switched to Windows.

And my current experience with small business I have
constantly tried to figure out how to get folks on
Linux. It is virtually impossible, as the apps they
need only run in Windows.

It is the apps the customer cares about. They could
care less if they were run int Flying Zucchini OS, if
it ran their apps.

I know this to be the case as my customer SELDOM know
what OS they are running.

Also, the recent computer science grads I have come
across make my head spin. They know virtually nothing
about computers or programming. Seriously, they barely
know what a mouse is. And they are in debt up to the
asses with student loans.
  #27  
Old July 17th 20, 06:36 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 14:04, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-07-16 1:35 p.m., T wrote:
On 2020-07-15 11:42, VanguardLH wrote:
Is Linus
even a gamer?* Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for Linux.


Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming.* Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You make joke, Yes?* :-)

Rene


Did you watch the video?


  #28  
Old July 17th 20, 07:15 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

VanguardLH wrote:

{Using Windows Subsystem for Linux}


From what I've seen of the WSL videos, and because the Linux "apps" are
lightweight images of Linux, what I see is running the Linux image dumps
you to a bash shell in terminal mode (aka command line aka console
mode). You don't get a GUI desktop, like Gnome or KDE. Alas, most
Windows users don't know about shells, console-mode, or entering
commands. They'll want a GUI for, say, the WSL/Ubuntu image. The
Windows 10 WSL bash shell doesn't officially support GUI Linux desktops.
Microsoft intended WSL's bash shell for developers running Linux
terminal-mode programs although it seems you can load GUI apps via shell
commands. I suppose Microsoft also didn't want to waste resources on
developing a GUI desktop when there have been lots of others already.

While it's possible to dual-boot into native Windows or into native
Linux as the base OS, dual-booting means you only get to use one OS at a
time. Hyper-V (hypervisor) is the base OS running the working Windows
or Linux images inside a VM, but the apps within those VMs are native to
that guest OS. Windows users can get acquainted with Linux while still
using Windows, and using both concurrently (without using user-mode
VMMs, like VirtualBox or VMware Player). However, not many Windows
users are going to endear themselves to Linux if stuck in terminal mode.

I read one solution is to run an X Server (on Windows) that connects to
the Linux VM. That would grant access to a Linux application or
desktop's GUI. Then you install the desktop in the Linux VM, like
running "sudo apt install lxde" (for the LXDE desktop). Looks like you
follow with "export DISPLAY=:0" and "export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1". I
only remember the DISPLAY var getting set when I used Reflection X or
Hummingbird (Xming is a free alternative) eons ago to connect to
numerous *NIX hosts on my Windows workstation. However, if I install a
desktop GUI into the Linux image running in a VM managed by Hyper-V, why
would I need an X server to see that desktop (on the same host)? To me,
the X server was to see the desktop on a different workstation. X11 is,
after all, a network protocol. After installing a desktop into the
Linux image (LXDE, Gnome, KDE), why wouldn't it show when I switch to
the view window for that VM? I would think I'd have the desktop load on
startup of the Linux image (e.g., startlxde). Or won't the Linux
desktop replace the terminal window?

Maybe the suggestion to install a GUI desktop in the Linux image, have
it load on Linux startup, but use an X server to see the Linux desktop
is to eliminate having to leave open (even if minimized) the terminal
window. Been about 10 years since I had to use any Linux variant. That
was back when I was working and before I [mostly] retired.

Although Windows users were weaned on a GUI desktop, even for OS config
tools, I suspect they'd have to learn to bounce out of the Linux desktop
back into the bash shell for some OS configs. Need to make the
transition to Ubuntu, SUSE, or whatever Linux as painless and intuitive
as possible for them to adopt Linux. How many Windows users enjoy
reverting to a command shell to enter console-mode commands?
Penetration into the user market is not led by techies in their personal
use of the OS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKCe9UE-quA (*)

I started watching that, but my eyes demanded some sleep. My initial
reaction from watching part of the video before dropping a shortcut to
it to watch later was "Geez, no wonder Windows users don't use Linux".
Yeah, the tweaks were to get the Linux VM working well along with a GUI
Linux desktop connected to using X11 from a Windows X client, but I
remember this kind of **** when I used to use native Linux, too.

Once you get past all the WSL/Linux setup **** to get a user workable
setup, seems like that would help get more Windows users familiar with
Linux.

(*) I'm sure glad I installed the Enhancements for Youtube add-on in
Firefox to have it skip past the in-video ads. You see an
interruption for the ad but only one frame shows, and the extension
skips back to the video to continue playing it. There's a version
by the same author to use in Chrome, too. Makes enjoyable again
watching of long videos at Youtube.
  #29  
Old July 17th 20, 07:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

"Jonathan N. Little" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:


snip

Steam Play (Steam for Linux) detects the platform for the game probably
via a manifest for the game specifying its native platform. If it's a
native Linux game, it just loads it in Linux. If a Windows game, it
uses its WINE variant (aka Proton) to run the Windows game in that
emulator running atop Linux.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...ows-only-games


2 years old. The landscape is changing rapidly. Of the top 100 games 1/3
now ported. More will be in the future with new games.

https://www.protondb.com/


Where's the impetus to port if Steam's Proton (variant of WINE) along
with using proprietary video drivers for Linux (if available) lets
Windows-only games run on Linux?

Any benchmarks showing performance differences (FPS, CPU/core
frequencies, video quality, temperatures, etc) between a ported Windows
game (making it a native Linux game) versus using Steam Proton and
proprietary video Linux drivers?

If there's no or little performance impact, can't see game authors
spending the time and resources to port from Windows with 88%
marketshare to Linux with a 2% marketshare.

protondb.com is a database of Windows-only games that have been
user-reported as compatible by using Proton (don't know if proprietary
Linux video drivers were used, though, or if Vulkan is solely relied on
to retain video performance). Is there a toggle or view there showing
how many Proton-compatible Windows-only games have been ported to Linux
hence eliminating the need for Proton? Games played on Linux using
Proton are not ported games.
  #30  
Old July 17th 20, 07:59 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

VanguardLH wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

{Using Windows Subsystem for Linux}


From what I've seen of the WSL videos, and because the Linux "apps" are
lightweight images of Linux, what I see is running the Linux image dumps
you to a bash shell in terminal mode (aka command line aka console
mode). You don't get a GUI desktop, like Gnome or KDE. Alas, most
Windows users don't know about shells, console-mode, or entering
commands. They'll want a GUI for, say, the WSL/Ubuntu image. The
Windows 10 WSL bash shell doesn't officially support GUI Linux desktops.
Microsoft intended WSL's bash shell for developers running Linux
terminal-mode programs although it seems you can load GUI apps via shell
commands. I suppose Microsoft also didn't want to waste resources on
developing a GUI desktop when there have been lots of others already.


That was solved within two days of release of WSL.

Someone put an Xserver on their Windows box, and claimed
to run Firefox in WSL and displayed it on the XServer.
(I didn't see a picture of this at the time.)

But that doesn't cover every possible application you
might want to run. It was just a bar bet that
"we can get something to run under a GUI".

Paul
 




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