cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:29:27 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
Marek Novotny wrote:

On 2015-10-16, Adam wrote:
Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
Fry's? Radio Shack? Other?

ebay.

China.

Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor). I got replacement batteries
for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
locally IF they had even been available, which they were not.

Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
mention the life of your equipment.

You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
days that were not made there. So you must not be as all nerded up as
you would like folks to think.

As I read the thread, the recommendation was for the OP to buy a power
supply directly from China via an Ebay listing. Fake OEM power
supplies as well as honest knock-offs from China litter Ebay listings
for replacement power supplies and many have the issues I mentioned.

Even legitimate, direct from the maker supplies are made IN CHINA.

Jeez, can you really be that much in the dark?

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
and manufacture.

No. The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
(read stop producing) the model.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
been adiquately designed for the application,

Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".

There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance. That
is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for. And YES, they ARE valid cert
declarations.

Sheesh.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:56:21 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

In comp.sys.laptops Adam wrote:

Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
in a similar manner.

Probably because there's little commercial incentive, and as the
laptop power connector is going to be exposed to your average
"idiot user" even a voltage to plug standard wouldn't prevent
someone having trouble because they try to use their 12V 4.5A
laptop with the 12V 4A power supply from their old one.

So what? Supplies are rarely chosen to be fully taxed at their rated
output, and it is in fact dangerous to put one into a design that is.

So picking one that puts out slightly less than the original is nearly
always ok as long as it does not present too much ripple at its rated
output.

There'd
have to be a long list of probably tens of power connectors
designed for the different current ratings and voltages,

You obviously did not examine the link I posted about the current,
most commonly used standard DC connector series. Much less know
anything about it.

or
an electronic system for identifying the right power supply

Huh? A PC with a 250 W supply can operate just as good as if you
place a 1000W supply on it. They BOTH provide the same standard ATX
voltages. The PC does not suddenly puke because a more capable supply
was placed on the system. The system is the load, and the load does not
magically change just because you changed the supply.

(I think some laptops might do this, but there's no industry
standard).

Laptops test voltage because battery charging circuits require a
minimum spec to operate without puking before their basic MTBF time.
If the voltage is too low and they did not test, they would run too hot
trying to provide the right charging voltage to the battery, which is
higher than the battery's topped off full voltage level.

Non-battery driven devices typically do not have a watchdog circuit in
them.

Although a good ATX power supply has circuits to shut down the supply
when it senses a current surge on some of the rails after it has been
brought up.

In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:56:21 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

In comp.sys.laptops Adam wrote:

Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
in a similar manner.

Probably because there's little commercial incentive, and as the
laptop power connector is going to be exposed to your average
"idiot user" even a voltage to plug standard wouldn't prevent
someone having trouble because they try to use their 12V 4.5A
laptop with the 12V 4A power supply from their old one.

So what? Supplies are rarely chosen to be fully taxed at their rated
output, and it is in fact dangerous to put one into a design that is.

Sigh, OK make my example 12V 4A and 12V 7A then. You don't want to have
users eating into the safety margin anyway.

So picking one that puts out slightly less than the original is nearly
always ok as long as it does not present too much ripple at its rated
output.

There'd
have to be a long list of probably tens of power connectors
designed for the different current ratings and voltages,

You obviously did not examine the link I posted about the current,
most commonly used standard DC connector series. Much less know
anything about it.

True, I thought it was a reference for what you said about 19V power
because of where you placed it in your post. But it does not prevent
miss-matching current ratings (which is what the "tens" of different
connectors would be for) and is not standard across all laptops.

or
an electronic system for identifying the right power supply

Huh? A PC with a 250 W supply can operate just as good as if you
place a 1000W supply on it. They BOTH provide the same standard ATX
voltages. The PC does not suddenly puke because a more capable supply
was placed on the system. The system is the load, and the load does not
magically change just because you changed the supply.

The right power supply is one with a high enough current rating. It is to
prevent the laptop equivalent of someone putting in a 250W desktop PSU to
replace a 1000W one.

(I think some laptops might do this, but there's no industry
standard).

Laptops test voltage because battery charging circuits require a
minimum spec to operate without puking before their basic MTBF time.
If the voltage is too low and they did not test, they would run too hot
trying to provide the right charging voltage to the battery, which is
higher than the battery's topped off full voltage level.

Non-battery driven devices typically do not have a watchdog circuit in
them.

Although a good ATX power supply has circuits to shut down the supply
when it senses a current surge on some of the rails after it has been
brought up.

Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too, but if a laptop
is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
be clear to the user.

--
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In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:29:27 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
Marek Novotny wrote:

On 2015-10-16, Adam wrote:
Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
Fry's? Radio Shack? Other?

ebay.

China.

Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor). I got replacement batteries
for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
locally IF they had even been available, which they were not.

Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
mention the life of your equipment.

You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
days that were not made there. So you must not be as all nerded up as
you would like folks to think.

As I read the thread, the recommendation was for the OP to buy a power
supply directly from China via an Ebay listing. Fake OEM power
supplies as well as honest knock-offs from China litter Ebay listings
for replacement power supplies and many have the issues I mentioned.

Even legitimate, direct from the maker supplies are made IN CHINA.

Jeez, can you really be that much in the dark?

Of course not, I'm making it clear that I'm talking about the cheap
power supplies advertised on EBAY in China, most of which are not
genuine OEM products, regardless of whether the genuine OEM product
is also made in China.

--
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#_ |\| | _#

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,

I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.

It is surge sensing. If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts. It can also happen
merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well. It is the change it senses,
even if well below its max capacity.

Hot swap supplies do not do this function. ATX supplies do. That is
why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.

but if a laptop
is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
be clear to the user.

Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
amp differential. Now try to move the goal posts again.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:42:46 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Of course not, I'm making it clear that I'm talking about the cheap
power supplies advertised on EBAY in China, most of which are not
genuine OEM products, regardless of whether the genuine OEM product
is also made in China.

I never said a damned thing about using a supply that has been falsely
labeled as an OEM replacement.

In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
and manufacture.

No. The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
(read stop producing) the model.

Then that's the control ASUS have over the design and manufacture of
their power supplies. Cheap ones from Ebay do not have the assurance
of that approval by the laptop manufacturer.

Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
been adiquately designed for the application,

Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".

There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance. That
is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for. And YES, they ARE valid cert
declarations.

Sheesh.

Some of the laptop power supplies on Ebay are fake OEM products, I
should have said "third party" instead of knock-off, but I meant ones
that are not OEM branded. Either way, there is little assurance that
the design is sound and truely approved. There are plenty of poor
charger designs, some with fake certifications, shown in teardowns
on the web.

--
__ __
#_ |\| | _#

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:53:15 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), lid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
and manufacture.

No. The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
(read stop producing) the model.

Then that's the control ASUS have over the design and manufacture of
their power supplies. Cheap ones from Ebay do not have the assurance
of that approval by the laptop manufacturer.

Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
been adiquately designed for the application,

Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".

There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance. That
is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for. And YES, they ARE valid cert
declarations.

Sheesh.

Some of the laptop power supplies on Ebay are fake OEM products, I
should have said "third party" instead of knock-off, but I meant ones
that are not OEM branded. Either way, there is little assurance that
the design is sound and truely approved. There are plenty of poor
charger designs, some with fake certifications, shown in teardowns
on the web.

No need for any tear down. Place the output on a scope and put the
supply under its full rated load and look at the ripple. It really is
that simple.

Come back an hour later and check the case temperature and ripple
again.

Easy greasy chin-o-****in-nesey.