Watts a good power supply?

On 7/7/2015 6:17 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/7/2015 5:03 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 4:51 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 6:18 AM, Bill wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/5/2015 11:39 PM, Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 10:15:22 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:


I'm not looking to go cheap here. I look on Amazon at some
1000W
units
that are very inexpensive and seem to get good reviews. I always
try to
go top shelf out of the gate but this time I'm wondering as
there are
some units that also go Big BUCKS. I have had good luck with
SilverStone, I have a new 500W sitting right here unused. I've
also got
one in a low power system. I have a Corsair CX705M and a
Thermaltake
Black Widow 850 Watt in systems and never had any trouble with
any. Now
I'm looking for something with more power but I need some
opinions.

There's no point to a power supply too much bigger than the max
your
machine can use.

If there is a Windows issue regarding this I would have to agree.
Otherwise to start out in a comfort zone is usually where I'm
coming
from. At the moment I have a rather small video card as my new
build
is strictly for CAD/CAM. As my job demands my needs will lean more
towards 3-D design so I'll be adding a high end card that will meet
these demands and tax my power supply in the end.

If you have the money for a high end card, then you have the money
for a
good power supply.
Maybe buy a modest one now and a bigger one when you need it.







I'd go right to the top now on a good power supply but it seems
easier to decide on the card than the PSU. Especially if I got one
with too much output and there isn't enough draw from the system I
have now it's making it easy to do what you suggest. I'm just trying
to figure out what's good and not so good by the reviews I see on
Amazon. They seem to be happy with spending the least and praising
the
manufacturer.

I have to study what Paul posts as he is my number one go to guy
whom
I respect the most. Most of the time I only have moments at a time to
spare with little time to do the reading and research needed.

My job here, is to "tame exuberance" :-)

If the electrical load actually justifies a $250 power
supply, I don't have a problem with someone spending $250.
It's thinking of some poor guy with a 65W processor and
build-in graphics, who just spent $250 for nothing,
that ****es me off. As there is even a danger, that such
a low power rig, might trigger untoward behavior in
a lame 1000W supply.

The latest high-end video card on Anandtech, draws
275W (manufacturer spec). And we'll never get to find
out what the real measurement is. (Unless Xbitlabs
gets the lead out...) Most of the review sites,
just check the Kill-a-Watt meter connected to their
rig, which isn't exactly a good way to measure
the video card. So part of the fun in 2015, is
getting an actual, detailed, GPU power measurement.

If I was putting the 275W card in my newest rig,
I'd want somewhere between 600W and 750W (because of
my 156W CPU, measured). And I'd be checking the
Jonnyguru site, as they have a proper load tester, and
scope 12V ripple as a quality metric. It will take a while
to go through the reviews, but if you see a "bargain",
you can find out here whether it's really a good deal or not.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory6&reid=427

Paul

Paul you're a good man. But I think your kindness is wasted somewhat
worrying about people throwing away money. I learned a long time ago
and have been re-enforced regularly to this day that trying to hard to
help people is the number one lesson in futility. Most of the time
efforts go unrecognized and unappreciated.

I also believe there are no real bargains to be had. There are no
"sales" without a reason and no competition among retailers. It's like
shopping for a car. This ain't your daddy's bargain basement. The plan
is to get as much as you can and provide as little as possible
starting at the top and working it's way all the way down to the
bottom. That's why I decided to give up spending most of what's left
of my life trying to squeeze pennies.

I have noticed that many reviews are stacked with those that are
trying to sell you what their praising such as on Amazon. Very
discouraging.

I've experienced staff at the local computer store
looking out for customer interests. When I placed an
order for a large amount of RAM, one of the sales people
started asking me questions, to make sure I knew what
I was doing. So not all shops are crooked and take your
money no matter what the consequences. (Apparently there
have been gamers in the shop, who think an infinite amount
of RAM makes the computer infinitely good.)

It's true, that maybe some day, buying an oversized supply
pays off, when you get that quad SLI computer setup going.
Or, maybe you decide to become a BitCoin Miner, which
gulps down the power, and that big supply comes in handy.
But for a lot of regular computer users, the ones with the
65W processors and relatively low electrical load, it's
one large hood ornament :-) And especially so, if it isn't
modular, and the loom completely fills the top
of the computer. And you're running out of places
to hide the cables.

Paul

The case I have has plenty of room for cable management. (Phantom-red)

The card I most likely will end up with:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...o-6000-us.html

Maximum Power Consumption GPU 204 W
Auxiliary Power Cable(s) Required Single 8-pin OR dual 6-pin

CPU TDP 88W * 1/0.90 = 98 W
Mobo+RAM ~50 W
USB2 5V @ 2A 10 W
SSD Sandforce 7W peak 7 W
Hard drive 12V @ 0.6A, 5V @ 1A 12 W
Optical drive 12V @ 1.5A, 5V @ 1.5A 25 W
Fans 12V @ 1A (salt to taste) 12 W
-----
418 W

204/12 + 98/12 + 0.6 + 1.5 + 1.0 = 12v @ 28.3A

This ought to take care of it.

CORSAIR HXi HX750i CP-9020072-NA 750W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS $145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139084

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-139-084-Z06?$S640$

(+3.3V@25A, +5V@25A, 150W, lots of margin)

Has three PCI-e connectors. Seems a weird number to provide.

If they'd made a HX650i, I would have spec'd that instead.
That's as low as the HX series goes.

It's not totally fault free, as there are a few reviewers
giving a low rating.

And Newegg made it hard to shop, with so few reviews for
the stuff in the 600W-700W range. I couldn't even begin
to guess what stuff in there was OK. Would have taken
hours more research.

Paul

Thanks,

"80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified"

Is that like "clinically tested"?


I'll order it today even though it might be some time before I get
that card. I'll try to get my company to spring but that may not happen.

I wonder at what point do I get one of the radiators and if I can get
one cheap at the auto salvage? I could have two, one for the CPU and
GPU. Man that'll be so dope.

On 7/7/2015 7:35 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:17:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

And Newegg made it hard to shop, with so few reviews for
the stuff in the 600W-700W range. I couldn't even begin
to guess what stuff in there was OK. Would have taken
hours more research.

Easier, depending on the gear, to look for the reviews elsewhere, if
not try and augment them with NewEgg. Newegg's just not the same for
me, now that they're less to non-tolerant about hassle-free returns --
an helpful former policy, no doubt, to building themselves up to a
premier parts provider.

Tried a HDD for a surveillance system not long ago, and, ouch,
UPS/FEDEX rates are out of this world. Turned around a got a great
little WD, $29, after that. Amazon for the convenience and link to
credit card "purchase points" (applied for the low $29). Might have
saved a couple bucks off Newegg, ignorance aside and discounting the
taste of paying return shipping for a surveillance unit I should have
known better than to try. To NewEgg's credit they did offer to send
me a form to print and purchase for their return shipping rates, HALF
what FEDEX/UPS reams out of people walking through their doors. Paid
it on full and chalked one up for stupidity at Newegg's expense.

Just ordered a used (as new) pro full-octave equalizer. Off Amazon,
but from a larger, nation musical supply distributor, when I found out
they wouldn't tax me at my location.

Be real interesting, theoretically, how as-new [re-?]returns are
handled indirectly through Amazon were channel bank dead or grounding
hummed like a hive of bees when fed at some unacceptable threshold for
ambient unit volume.

Power supplies, though, as you say, can be something worthy of the
research. (Last one I researched, alas got fried and smoked it
through no fault of its own on an ASUS MB that had eaten a couple
others. A server unit impressively built and literally as heavy as a
brick. Yep, never smelt so foul a whiff of smoke off a FSP Sparkle.)

Easier to consider rebates, I think, as power supply units are often
rebated items common for half or third their normal markups. As much
as I abhor doing the rebate (or return-shipping) shuffle/hassle. The
$125 one you recommended, for instance, I'd go at first from a
reference point by filtering Newegg for rebates, but rather than the
Newegg reviews, I might hit it for better hardware site reviews from
Google, say, should it pop up rebated. Of course, since a Power
Supply unit well can be money item, the earlier researched or just
watching for a purchase sale window for a potential build, the better.

Used to, anyway. These Gigabyte MBs I switched to have been
remarkably stable for many years. (Knock on wood.)

It's sometimes interesting to read opinions on the CAD/CAM forums
about computers and G-cards. Although most of the engineers where I work
don't even have home computers and know squat about how to fix one.
Their to busy raising their kids. Imagine that? To busy to post to
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt?

Al Drake wrote:
It's sometimes interesting to read opinions on the CAD/CAM forums
about computers and G-cards. Although most of the engineers where I
work don't even have home computers and know squat about how to fix
one. Their to busy raising their kids. Imagine that? To busy to post
to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt?

tomshardware.com may fill up whatever time you have left, at least for a
while.

Bill wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
It's sometimes interesting to read opinions on the CAD/CAM forums
about computers and G-cards. Although most of the engineers where I
work don't even have home computers and know squat about how to fix
one. Their to busy raising their kids. Imagine that? To busy to post
to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt?

tomshardware.com may fill up whatever time you have left, at least for
a while.

My web browser thinks there is something suspicious about that website
today, so I didn't push the matter.

Al Drake wrote:
On 7/7/2015 6:17 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/7/2015 5:03 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 4:51 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 6:18 AM, Bill wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/5/2015 11:39 PM, Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 10:15:22 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:


I'm not looking to go cheap here. I look on Amazon at some
1000W
units
that are very inexpensive and seem to get good reviews. I always
try to
go top shelf out of the gate but this time I'm wondering as
there are
some units that also go Big BUCKS. I have had good luck with
SilverStone, I have a new 500W sitting right here unused. I've
also got
one in a low power system. I have a Corsair CX705M and a
Thermaltake
Black Widow 850 Watt in systems and never had any trouble with
any. Now
I'm looking for something with more power but I need some
opinions.

There's no point to a power supply too much bigger than the max
your
machine can use.

If there is a Windows issue regarding this I would have to agree.
Otherwise to start out in a comfort zone is usually where I'm
coming
from. At the moment I have a rather small video card as my new
build
is strictly for CAD/CAM. As my job demands my needs will lean more
towards 3-D design so I'll be adding a high end card that will
meet
these demands and tax my power supply in the end.

If you have the money for a high end card, then you have the money
for a
good power supply.
Maybe buy a modest one now and a bigger one when you need it.







I'd go right to the top now on a good power supply but it seems
easier to decide on the card than the PSU. Especially if I got one
with too much output and there isn't enough draw from the system I
have now it's making it easy to do what you suggest. I'm just trying
to figure out what's good and not so good by the reviews I see on
Amazon. They seem to be happy with spending the least and praising
the
manufacturer.

I have to study what Paul posts as he is my number one go to guy
whom
I respect the most. Most of the time I only have moments at a
time to
spare with little time to do the reading and research needed.

My job here, is to "tame exuberance" :-)

If the electrical load actually justifies a $250 power
supply, I don't have a problem with someone spending $250.
It's thinking of some poor guy with a 65W processor and
build-in graphics, who just spent $250 for nothing,
that ****es me off. As there is even a danger, that such
a low power rig, might trigger untoward behavior in
a lame 1000W supply.

The latest high-end video card on Anandtech, draws
275W (manufacturer spec). And we'll never get to find
out what the real measurement is. (Unless Xbitlabs
gets the lead out...) Most of the review sites,
just check the Kill-a-Watt meter connected to their
rig, which isn't exactly a good way to measure
the video card. So part of the fun in 2015, is
getting an actual, detailed, GPU power measurement.

If I was putting the 275W card in my newest rig,
I'd want somewhere between 600W and 750W (because of
my 156W CPU, measured). And I'd be checking the
Jonnyguru site, as they have a proper load tester, and
scope 12V ripple as a quality metric. It will take a while
to go through the reviews, but if you see a "bargain",
you can find out here whether it's really a good deal or not.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory6&reid=427


Paul

Paul you're a good man. But I think your kindness is wasted somewhat
worrying about people throwing away money. I learned a long time ago
and have been re-enforced regularly to this day that trying to hard to
help people is the number one lesson in futility. Most of the time
efforts go unrecognized and unappreciated.

I also believe there are no real bargains to be had. There are no
"sales" without a reason and no competition among retailers. It's like
shopping for a car. This ain't your daddy's bargain basement. The plan
is to get as much as you can and provide as little as possible
starting at the top and working it's way all the way down to the
bottom. That's why I decided to give up spending most of what's left
of my life trying to squeeze pennies.

I have noticed that many reviews are stacked with those that are
trying to sell you what their praising such as on Amazon. Very
discouraging.

I've experienced staff at the local computer store
looking out for customer interests. When I placed an
order for a large amount of RAM, one of the sales people
started asking me questions, to make sure I knew what
I was doing. So not all shops are crooked and take your
money no matter what the consequences. (Apparently there
have been gamers in the shop, who think an infinite amount
of RAM makes the computer infinitely good.)

It's true, that maybe some day, buying an oversized supply
pays off, when you get that quad SLI computer setup going.
Or, maybe you decide to become a BitCoin Miner, which
gulps down the power, and that big supply comes in handy.
But for a lot of regular computer users, the ones with the
65W processors and relatively low electrical load, it's
one large hood ornament :-) And especially so, if it isn't
modular, and the loom completely fills the top
of the computer. And you're running out of places
to hide the cables.

Paul

The case I have has plenty of room for cable management. (Phantom-red)

The card I most likely will end up with:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...o-6000-us.html

Maximum Power Consumption GPU 204 W
Auxiliary Power Cable(s) Required Single 8-pin OR dual 6-pin

CPU TDP 88W * 1/0.90 = 98 W
Mobo+RAM ~50 W
USB2 5V @ 2A 10 W
SSD Sandforce 7W peak 7 W
Hard drive 12V @ 0.6A, 5V @ 1A 12 W
Optical drive 12V @ 1.5A, 5V @ 1.5A 25 W
Fans 12V @ 1A (salt to taste) 12 W
-----
418 W

204/12 + 98/12 + 0.6 + 1.5 + 1.0 = 12v @ 28.3A

This ought to take care of it.

CORSAIR HXi HX750i CP-9020072-NA 750W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS $145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139084

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-139-084-Z06?$S640$

(+3.3V@25A, +5V@25A, 150W, lots of margin)

Has three PCI-e connectors. Seems a weird number to provide.

If they'd made a HX650i, I would have spec'd that instead.
That's as low as the HX series goes.

It's not totally fault free, as there are a few reviewers
giving a low rating.

And Newegg made it hard to shop, with so few reviews for
the stuff in the 600W-700W range. I couldn't even begin
to guess what stuff in there was OK. Would have taken
hours more research.

Paul

Thanks,

"80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified"

Is that like "clinically tested"?


I'll order it today even though it might be some time before I get that
card. I'll try to get my company to spring but that may not happen.

I wonder at what point do I get one of the radiators and if I can get
one cheap at the auto salvage? I could have two, one for the CPU and
GPU. Man that'll be so dope.

It's very important to have stereo water cooling,
So you can have warm air for your left ear and your right ear.
Two radiators will do that for you.

*******

The Gold, Platinum, Bronze color scheme is for efficiency.
The more efficient, the less waste heat the ATX supply itself makes.

Certified just means that they put it on the load box,
tried various loading situations and it stayed above 80%
or whatever. Older supplies might be 70% efficient,
and the waste heat, you can feel it as an annoying
warm flow coming just from the supply. In extreme cases,
it used to make the sides of the computer case hot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS

80 Plus
80 Plus Bronze
80 Plus Silver
80 Plus Gold
80 Plus Platinum
80 Plus Titanium

The efficiency varies with which rail is being used.
If you draw 5V @ 20A (100W) versus 12V @ 8.33A (100W),
there is more waste heat in the first case than in the
second. The supply operates more efficiently making the
12V rail. The 12V rail has your CPU load and video card
load, so most of the significant loading is on 12V.

Old supply 115V -- common ---------- 12V
design converter ---- 5V
---- 3.3V

New supply 115V -- 12V converter ---+---- 12V
design |
+-------------------+
|
+-- 3.3/5V -------------- 5V
converter ---- 3.3V

The old supply design, doesn't have that dependency.
And is inefficient no matter what rail you draw
the power from.

HTH,
Paul

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:51:01 -0400, Bill
wrote:

My web browser thinks there is something suspicious about that website
today, so I didn't push the matter.

AnandTech is another. Overclockers, as well. They're good. As, I
suppose, are the boolean logic behind Google's stacked results.

Stock disclaimers, however, for such suspiciousness, (yes, my browser
does the same thing at tom's), is - 'Do you think we're in this for
our benevolent health, that we wouldn't advertise anything or
everything, or stick you malicious cookies or scripts to track who and
what you're doing on the WEB? Neveryoumind what utilitarianism has to
do in this capitalistic hellhole we've created by dint of our sweaty
balls.'

I run portable browsers, if not for their namesake, then in concept by
my own scripts, and restrictions -- hotkeyed into batch files for
erasing everything prior after a browser session. Of course I never,
ever install program codependencies within the Microsoft OS, but elect
out for alternative, often freeware sources. That foremost keeps
binary streamed OS restorations at a minimum, from installing programs
to other logical partitions (30 seconds to restore rewrite my OS from
SSD SSD, 45 seconds to write it only SSD SSD).

It's a lot to ask in a progressive world switching to a pocketed
telephone augmented with an Android OS, a Dick Tracy wris****ch and
Windows 10. Yes, I know, that it's entirely too demanding and
exceedingly expectant to be literally obfuscating and with a clue.

On 7/8/2015 9:52 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/7/2015 6:17 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/7/2015 5:03 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 4:51 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/6/2015 6:18 AM, Bill wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/5/2015 11:39 PM, Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 10:15:22 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:


I'm not looking to go cheap here. I look on Amazon at some
1000W
units
that are very inexpensive and seem to get good reviews. I
always
try to
go top shelf out of the gate but this time I'm wondering as
there are
some units that also go Big BUCKS. I have had good luck with
SilverStone, I have a new 500W sitting right here unused. I've
also got
one in a low power system. I have a Corsair CX705M and a
Thermaltake
Black Widow 850 Watt in systems and never had any trouble with
any. Now
I'm looking for something with more power but I need some
opinions.

There's no point to a power supply too much bigger than the max
your
machine can use.

If there is a Windows issue regarding this I would have to
agree.
Otherwise to start out in a comfort zone is usually where I'm
coming
from. At the moment I have a rather small video card as my new
build
is strictly for CAD/CAM. As my job demands my needs will lean
more
towards 3-D design so I'll be adding a high end card that will
meet
these demands and tax my power supply in the end.

If you have the money for a high end card, then you have the money
for a
good power supply.
Maybe buy a modest one now and a bigger one when you need it.







I'd go right to the top now on a good power supply but it seems
easier to decide on the card than the PSU. Especially if I got one
with too much output and there isn't enough draw from the system I
have now it's making it easy to do what you suggest. I'm just
trying
to figure out what's good and not so good by the reviews I see on
Amazon. They seem to be happy with spending the least and praising
the
manufacturer.

I have to study what Paul posts as he is my number one go to guy
whom
I respect the most. Most of the time I only have moments at a
time to
spare with little time to do the reading and research needed.

My job here, is to "tame exuberance" :-)

If the electrical load actually justifies a $250 power
supply, I don't have a problem with someone spending $250.
It's thinking of some poor guy with a 65W processor and
build-in graphics, who just spent $250 for nothing,
that ****es me off. As there is even a danger, that such
a low power rig, might trigger untoward behavior in
a lame 1000W supply.

The latest high-end video card on Anandtech, draws
275W (manufacturer spec). And we'll never get to find
out what the real measurement is. (Unless Xbitlabs
gets the lead out...) Most of the review sites,
just check the Kill-a-Watt meter connected to their
rig, which isn't exactly a good way to measure
the video card. So part of the fun in 2015, is
getting an actual, detailed, GPU power measurement.

If I was putting the 275W card in my newest rig,
I'd want somewhere between 600W and 750W (because of
my 156W CPU, measured). And I'd be checking the
Jonnyguru site, as they have a proper load tester, and
scope 12V ripple as a quality metric. It will take a while
to go through the reviews, but if you see a "bargain",
you can find out here whether it's really a good deal or not.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory6&reid=427


Paul

Paul you're a good man. But I think your kindness is wasted somewhat
worrying about people throwing away money. I learned a long time ago
and have been re-enforced regularly to this day that trying to
hard to
help people is the number one lesson in futility. Most of the time
efforts go unrecognized and unappreciated.

I also believe there are no real bargains to be had. There are no
"sales" without a reason and no competition among retailers. It's
like
shopping for a car. This ain't your daddy's bargain basement. The
plan
is to get as much as you can and provide as little as possible
starting at the top and working it's way all the way down to the
bottom. That's why I decided to give up spending most of what's left
of my life trying to squeeze pennies.

I have noticed that many reviews are stacked with those that are
trying to sell you what their praising such as on Amazon. Very
discouraging.

I've experienced staff at the local computer store
looking out for customer interests. When I placed an
order for a large amount of RAM, one of the sales people
started asking me questions, to make sure I knew what
I was doing. So not all shops are crooked and take your
money no matter what the consequences. (Apparently there
have been gamers in the shop, who think an infinite amount
of RAM makes the computer infinitely good.)

It's true, that maybe some day, buying an oversized supply
pays off, when you get that quad SLI computer setup going.
Or, maybe you decide to become a BitCoin Miner, which
gulps down the power, and that big supply comes in handy.
But for a lot of regular computer users, the ones with the
65W processors and relatively low electrical load, it's
one large hood ornament :-) And especially so, if it isn't
modular, and the loom completely fills the top
of the computer. And you're running out of places
to hide the cables.

Paul

The case I have has plenty of room for cable management. (Phantom-red)

The card I most likely will end up with:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...o-6000-us.html

Maximum Power Consumption GPU 204 W
Auxiliary Power Cable(s) Required Single 8-pin OR dual 6-pin

CPU TDP 88W * 1/0.90 = 98 W
Mobo+RAM ~50 W
USB2 5V @ 2A 10 W
SSD Sandforce 7W peak 7 W
Hard drive 12V @ 0.6A, 5V @ 1A 12 W
Optical drive 12V @ 1.5A, 5V @ 1.5A 25 W
Fans 12V @ 1A (salt to taste) 12 W
-----
418 W

204/12 + 98/12 + 0.6 + 1.5 + 1.0 = 12v @ 28.3A

This ought to take care of it.

CORSAIR HXi HX750i CP-9020072-NA 750W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS $145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139084

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-139-084-Z06?$S640$

(+3.3V@25A, +5V@25A, 150W, lots of margin)

Has three PCI-e connectors. Seems a weird number to provide.

If they'd made a HX650i, I would have spec'd that instead.
That's as low as the HX series goes.

It's not totally fault free, as there are a few reviewers
giving a low rating.

And Newegg made it hard to shop, with so few reviews for
the stuff in the 600W-700W range. I couldn't even begin
to guess what stuff in there was OK. Would have taken
hours more research.

Paul

Thanks,

"80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified"

Is that like "clinically tested"?


I'll order it today even though it might be some time before I get
that card. I'll try to get my company to spring but that may not happen.

I wonder at what point do I get one of the radiators and if I can get
one cheap at the auto salvage? I could have two, one for the CPU and
GPU. Man that'll be so dope.

It's very important to have stereo water cooling,
So you can have warm air for your left ear and your right ear.
Two radiators will do that for you.

*******

The Gold, Platinum, Bronze color scheme is for efficiency.
The more efficient, the less waste heat the ATX supply itself makes.

Certified just means that they put it on the load box,
tried various loading situations and it stayed above 80%
or whatever. Older supplies might be 70% efficient,
and the waste heat, you can feel it as an annoying
warm flow coming just from the supply. In extreme cases,
it used to make the sides of the computer case hot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS

80 Plus
80 Plus Bronze
80 Plus Silver
80 Plus Gold
80 Plus Platinum
80 Plus Titanium

The efficiency varies with which rail is being used.
If you draw 5V @ 20A (100W) versus 12V @ 8.33A (100W),
there is more waste heat in the first case than in the
second. The supply operates more efficiently making the
12V rail. The 12V rail has your CPU load and video card
load, so most of the significant loading is on 12V.

Old supply 115V -- common ---------- 12V
design converter ---- 5V
---- 3.3V

New supply 115V -- 12V converter ---+---- 12V
design |
+-------------------+
|
+-- 3.3/5V -------------- 5V
converter ---- 3.3V

The old supply design, doesn't have that dependency.
And is inefficient no matter what rail you draw
the power from.

HTH,
Paul
Thanks Paul. I ended up ordering the Corsair HX850i High Performance
Power Supply ATX12V/EPS12V 850 CP-9020073-NA.

It's an 80 Plus Platinum.
It'll arrive Thursday 7/9/15.

Also I'm wondering about this Quadro I have now, low end, I don't see
any SLI connector. Does this mean I can't add another or 2 instead of
going to a larger single card? I don't plan on getting the Quadro 6000
for some time. $4000 is has a bit if a sting.

Al Drake wrote:

Thanks Paul. I ended up ordering the Corsair HX850i High Performance
Power Supply ATX12V/EPS12V 850 CP-9020073-NA.

It's an 80 Plus Platinum.
It'll arrive Thursday 7/9/15.

Also I'm wondering about this Quadro I have now, low end, I don't see
any SLI connector. Does this mean I can't add another or 2 instead of
going to a larger single card? I don't plan on getting the Quadro 6000
for some time. $4000 is has a bit if a sting.

Better than the intro price of $5000.

I did see an article claiming they're better
because they don't use a later brain-dead
architecture. And even though the silicon itself
might not be as impressive, the CAD tools
like it better. (The later architecture uses
a video card and a compute card, and the CAD
tool uses the two of them as appropriate.)

*******

I think I see a bridge connector on top of the 6000.
But I wasn't able to get a verifiable photo of
two of them in SLI.

There are two ways to do SLI. You can use the
bridge cable between cards. Or, there is also
a mechanism to exchange frames over the PCI Express
bus. It requires a particular "card to card" capability
of the chipset hosting the bus. In some cases, there
are "PCI Express switch chips" on the motherboard,
that allow two SLI cards to talk to one another.
You could see if the user manual for your motherboard
makes any reference to SLI as proof.

The Caveats section here can answer your questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

"Not all motherboards with multiple PCI-Express x16 slots
support SLI. Recent motherboards as of August 2014 that
support it are Intel's Z and X series chipsets (Z68, Z77,
Z87, Z97, X79 and X99) and AMD's 990FX chipset. Aside from
a few exceptions, older motherboards needed certain models
of nForce chipsets to support SLI.

I think it was the Nforce 100, or perhaps Nforce 200,
that bifurcates a PCI Express slot, and allows the pair of slots
to SLI over the bus. Whereas later chipsets are more likely to
have that built-in (it's just a PCI Express logic block
capability, it's not magic or patented).

http://techreport.com/r.x/nvidia-nforce-780i/block.jpg

Someone restates the capability/requirement here.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/gui...nology-guide#5

"Bridge Installation

With the cards installed on the motherboard and connected
to the power supply, it is strongly encouraged that users
also install the SLI bridge (provided with all SLI-ready
motherboards.) A two-pronged bridge is used for 2-way SLI
while the six-pronged bridge is meant for 3-way SLI systems.

Very high-end motherboards may additionally provide an
8-pronged bridge, meant for 4-way SLI between four discrete
graphics cards (as opposed to 4-way SLI with dual-GPU graphics
cards like the GTX 690.)

There is technically no "proper" orientation for the 2-way bridge,
and if two cards running in SLI have two goldfinger ports (
indicating support for 3-way SLI) the bridge does not need
to be installed on a particular set; two separate 2-way bridges
may be used as well, but this would be purely aesthetic as no
performance gains would be earned.

Although the bridge is not explicitly required to enable 2-way SLI
with most GPUs, it provides a dedicated communication pathway for
the GPUs to exchange data across. When this link is not present
the PCIe bus will become the means of communication, which can
degrade performance. 3-way and 4-way SLI configurations must use
the bridge as a result of the amount of data being shared."

I think as long as your motherboard has a chipset from the
list above, that's going to be a starting point. I would have
thought the PCI Express card-to-card capability would be
inside the processor (as that is what is hosting the PCI
Express now, not the Northbridge any more). With one of the
named chipsets above, maybe you get the bridge in the
motherboard box, and that's the necessary clue.

Since the card to card communication, is exchanging half of the
video frames worth of data, you can do the math and figure out
that the exchange rate is below a gigabyte a second. So I don't
know if this "degradation" is just an "it ruined my benchmark"
issue (important to fanbois), or whether it affects real user work.

Paul

On 7/8/2015 6:36 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

Thanks Paul. I ended up ordering the Corsair HX850i High Performance
Power Supply ATX12V/EPS12V 850 CP-9020073-NA.

It's an 80 Plus Platinum.
It'll arrive Thursday 7/9/15.

Also I'm wondering about this Quadro I have now, low end, I don't see
any SLI connector. Does this mean I can't add another or 2 instead of
going to a larger single card? I don't plan on getting the Quadro 6000
for some time. $4000 is has a bit if a sting.

Better than the intro price of $5000.

I did see an article claiming they're better
because they don't use a later brain-dead
architecture. And even though the silicon itself
might not be as impressive, the CAD tools
like it better. (The later architecture uses
a video card and a compute card, and the CAD
tool uses the two of them as appropriate.)

*******

I think I see a bridge connector on top of the 6000.
But I wasn't able to get a verifiable photo of
two of them in SLI.

There are two ways to do SLI. You can use the
bridge cable between cards. Or, there is also
a mechanism to exchange frames over the PCI Express
bus. It requires a particular "card to card" capability
of the chipset hosting the bus. In some cases, there
are "PCI Express switch chips" on the motherboard,
that allow two SLI cards to talk to one another.
You could see if the user manual for your motherboard
makes any reference to SLI as proof.

The Caveats section here can answer your questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

"Not all motherboards with multiple PCI-Express x16 slots
support SLI. Recent motherboards as of August 2014 that
support it are Intel's Z and X series chipsets (Z68, Z77,
Z87, Z97, X79 and X99) and AMD's 990FX chipset. Aside from
a few exceptions, older motherboards needed certain models
of nForce chipsets to support SLI.

I think it was the Nforce 100, or perhaps Nforce 200,
that bifurcates a PCI Express slot, and allows the pair of slots
to SLI over the bus. Whereas later chipsets are more likely to
have that built-in (it's just a PCI Express logic block
capability, it's not magic or patented).

http://techreport.com/r.x/nvidia-nforce-780i/block.jpg

Someone restates the capability/requirement here.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/gui...nology-guide#5


"Bridge Installation

With the cards installed on the motherboard and connected
to the power supply, it is strongly encouraged that users
also install the SLI bridge (provided with all SLI-ready
motherboards.) A two-pronged bridge is used for 2-way SLI
while the six-pronged bridge is meant for 3-way SLI systems.

Very high-end motherboards may additionally provide an
8-pronged bridge, meant for 4-way SLI between four discrete
graphics cards (as opposed to 4-way SLI with dual-GPU graphics
cards like the GTX 690.)

There is technically no "proper" orientation for the 2-way bridge,
and if two cards running in SLI have two goldfinger ports (
indicating support for 3-way SLI) the bridge does not need
to be installed on a particular set; two separate 2-way bridges
may be used as well, but this would be purely aesthetic as no
performance gains would be earned.

Although the bridge is not explicitly required to enable 2-way SLI
with most GPUs, it provides a dedicated communication pathway for
the GPUs to exchange data across. When this link is not present
the PCIe bus will become the means of communication, which can
degrade performance. 3-way and 4-way SLI configurations must use
the bridge as a result of the amount of data being shared."

I think as long as your motherboard has a chipset from the
list above, that's going to be a starting point. I would have
thought the PCI Express card-to-card capability would be
inside the processor (as that is what is hosting the PCI
Express now, not the Northbridge any more). With one of the
named chipsets above, maybe you get the bridge in the
motherboard box, and that's the necessary clue.

Since the card to card communication, is exchanging half of the
video frames worth of data, you can do the math and figure out
that the exchange rate is below a gigabyte a second. So I don't
know if this "degradation" is just an "it ruined my benchmark"
issue (important to fanbois), or whether it affects real user work.

Paul

Nice post. Thanks once again. I any case, as the mobo in question is a
Gigabyte Z97X so that's on the list, I might just get another identical
Quadro and see if they play together. If not I have other places I can
stick it. When I die it's going to cost more to bury my toys than to
plant me.

Al Drake wrote:


Nice post. Thanks once again. I any case, as the mobo in question is a
Gigabyte Z97X so that's on the list, I might just get another identical
Quadro and see if they play together. If not I have other places I can
stick it. When I die it's going to cost more to bury my toys than to
plant me.

I think a single card, gives the best bang per buck.

Once you test with the one card, that'll tell you whether
what you're attempting as a designer, completely
outclasses the hardware or not. For example, if you rotated
a finished design (all piece-parts loaded), and were getting
1 FPS with a single Quadro 6000, adding a second card
is not going to get you to 30FPS. It'll get you to 1.3 FPS.

And when you get your single card installed, try to benchmark
the thing and compare to what other Quadro 6000 users report.
Perhaps a tool like SpecViewPerf for example. When I tried
that tool (more as a joke), I wasn't sure the software
was even running. That's how slow the update rate of
the rendering was on my setup. If you have a benchmark
available, and can compare to other users, that can tell
you whether there is "some patch missing, something needs
to be flashed" or whatever.

For the mechanical engineer at work, I think he was getting
about 5 FPS on his setup. It would take seven hours for
the design (our complete product) to load into his workstation,
during which time he spent most of his time checking incoming
prototype parts were correct. At the time, we couldn't buy
him any better hardware - he already had the recommended "best"
setup. Part of the slow load time, was due to the usage of
a central piece part database, and 100BT networking :-)

And any time I've been informally involved in performance
issues with CAD stuff, I look over what the machine is
doing, and it always seems to be "completely CPU bound".
It kinda takes the fun out of suggesting hardware upgrades
when that happens. My recommendation when that happens,
is I tell the poor user to "buy better software" :-)
That's the only answer I've got.

To give an example of how "buy better software" is important,
we had a software developer at work, write us a retargetable
assembler (for some custom hardware). She writes excellent
software (everything she writes, is suitable for
publication in a textbook for other software
developers). Well, her first prototype software,
we could load source code and go for a coffee break.
The software was that slow.

I don't know how she got encouraged, but she took a
second pass at the parser for the thing. And she got
the V.2 version running 100X faster. We could no longer
take a coffee break, as the output was coming back
that fast. Now, imagine if someone said "lets go buy
more expensive hardware to fix this", we would never
have been able to get 100X speedup with a better
processor. Only a re-write of a critical section
of the software, could give that sort of improvement.

Paul