Battery backup surge protectors

I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of an APC
but am confused by the voltage & watts. I have a dimension 8300 with a 17"
screen. The printer & scanner don't have to be on backup only surge. Could
someone advise me what I should get?

Thanks
k~

On May 31, 6:07 pm, "kathe" wrote:
I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of
an APC but am confused by the voltage & watts.

You are seeking a solution to blackouts and brownouts. That is a
battery backup power supply to protect from data loss is power goes
out. The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges
that typically damage computers. That protection is provided
elsewhere.

In most cases, a 250 watt UPS would be more than sufficient. But
a UPS typically sold in computer stores tends to degrade quickly.
Batteries need replacement in as little as three years. Therefore
many may recommend a 600 or 1000 watt UPS.

If lights dim to less than 40% intensity, then a computer may have
to shutdown without saving data. That is what a UPS is for - time to
save that data.

Effective surge protectors don't stop or block surges. Effective
protectors connect surges to earth ground. Therefore an effective
protector is distant from transistors and connects 'less than 10 feet'
to earth ground. Superior and effective protectors for everything in
a residence are sold even for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot.
These effective 'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names
such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic,
etc. Not on that list are products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, etc
who do not have a superior reputation in that first list.

Two different problems solved by two completely different products
located in two different locations. One product for blackouts and
brownouts. Another for surges. Former to protect data. Latter to
protect hardware.

Thank you for your input. The APC I looked at Office Depot SAID it was for
both surge & data. But it may not be true and may not be very good. I
think I will look into the HomeDepot surge protectors. I really don't need
the blackout/brownout as that is not a problem.

K~
"w_tom" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 31, 6:07 pm, "kathe" wrote:
I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of
an APC but am confused by the voltage & watts.

You are seeking a solution to blackouts and brownouts. That is a
battery backup power supply to protect from data loss is power goes
out. The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges
that typically damage computers. That protection is provided
elsewhere.

In most cases, a 250 watt UPS would be more than sufficient. But
a UPS typically sold in computer stores tends to degrade quickly.
Batteries need replacement in as little as three years. Therefore
many may recommend a 600 or 1000 watt UPS.

If lights dim to less than 40% intensity, then a computer may have
to shutdown without saving data. That is what a UPS is for - time to
save that data.

Effective surge protectors don't stop or block surges. Effective
protectors connect surges to earth ground. Therefore an effective
protector is distant from transistors and connects 'less than 10 feet'
to earth ground. Superior and effective protectors for everything in
a residence are sold even for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot.
These effective 'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names
such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic,
etc. Not on that list are products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, etc
who do not have a superior reputation in that first list.

Two different problems solved by two completely different products
located in two different locations. One product for blackouts and
brownouts. Another for surges. Former to protect data. Latter to
protect hardware.

Any old battery backup is better than none. It gets you through
power-loss screwups by reducing their number enormously.

Watts is more or less the same as Volt-Amperes as far as sizing.
Use either one and just buy the next size bigger.

A larger-still capacity will give you a longer runtime on your
smaller system, which is what a lot of people go for.

(Very nice would be a small-wattage battery backup with a huge
battery, but nobody seems to sell that.)

I've used Cyberpower, Tripplite and APC, and all work.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

On May 31, 9:00 pm, "kathe" wrote:
Thank you for your input. The APC I looked at Office Depot SAID it was for
both surge & data. But it may not be true and may not be very good. I
think I will look into the HomeDepot surge protectors. I really don't need
the blackout/brownout as that is not a problem.

Yes, APC does claim to protect from a surge. Which one? A surge
that typically does not do damage. A surge that is typically made
irrelevant by protection already inside computers. But since APC does
not claim to protect from all kinds of surges, then it forgets to list
each type of surge, then use numbers to list which ones it does and
does not protect from.

It is called a 'whole house' protector. Lowes sells GE and Cutler-
Hammer brands. Home Depot sells Intermatic. More expensive versions
have longer life expectancy due to more joules. Minimally sufficient
is 1000 joules and 50,000 amps.

A protector is only as effective is its earth ground. A protector is
not protection. A protector simply connects a surge to protection.
Protection is earth ground. Your building earthing may need to be
upgraded to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code
requirements - to have sufficient protection.

Each incoming utility must make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to
that earthing electrode. Telco already installs a 'whole house'
protector a phone line. That protector also only as effective as the
earth ground you provided. Cable and satellite dish need no
protector. These wired directly to that earthing electrode.

A Lowes 'whole house' protector alone does not provide protection.
You must inspect and maybe have an electrician upgrade building's
earthing. That earthing wire must route separated from other wires so
as to not induce surges on those other wires. It must have no sharp
bends. If necessary pass through a wire (rather than over it) to make
the earthing connection as short as possible. These are conditions
that exceed code requirements but are necessary for surge protection.

Above is secondary protection so that protection already inside a
computer is not overwhelmed. Also inspect your primary protection
'system'. Have the utility correct your primary protection if this
wire is broken:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

"The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges that
typically damage computers."

Bull****, they most certainly do; they even have a "protected equipment
warranty" that provides "insurance" if a pieces of protected equipment
is damaged while connected to an APC UPS.


w_tom wrote:
On May 31, 6:07 pm, "kathe" wrote:
I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of
an APC but am confused by the voltage & watts.

You are seeking a solution to blackouts and brownouts. That is a
battery backup power supply to protect from data loss is power goes
out. The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges
that typically damage computers. That protection is provided
elsewhere.

In most cases, a 250 watt UPS would be more than sufficient. But
a UPS typically sold in computer stores tends to degrade quickly.
Batteries need replacement in as little as three years. Therefore
many may recommend a 600 or 1000 watt UPS.

If lights dim to less than 40% intensity, then a computer may have
to shutdown without saving data. That is what a UPS is for - time to
save that data.

Effective surge protectors don't stop or block surges. Effective
protectors connect surges to earth ground. Therefore an effective
protector is distant from transistors and connects 'less than 10 feet'
to earth ground. Superior and effective protectors for everything in
a residence are sold even for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot.
These effective 'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names
such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic,
etc. Not on that list are products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, etc
who do not have a superior reputation in that first list.

Two different problems solved by two completely different products
located in two different locations. One product for blackouts and
brownouts. Another for surges. Former to protect data. Latter to
protect hardware.

w_tom is full of it, and his advice/information on this subject is best
ignored.

You really should get a UPS (probably the APC devices you were looking
at) instead of "just" a surge protector. It's both a better and more
all encompassing solution (it's also nice, in an emergency, to be able
to run a light, radio, etc. for a while .... forget the computer).

These are rated in VA (volt-amps), not watts; as a rough average, figure
watts at 60% of VA (e.g. a 500VA unit is good for about 300 watts), but
that number is SO highly variable that it is only the roughest of
guidelines. However, with careful shopping, you can get a 600 to to
900VA UPS in the $50-$60 range; a larger unit is likely to be $100 to
$150, and I really don't recommend a smaller unit, except as a backup
for a laptop. FWIW, my experience has been that you can power quite a
bit more than the ratings on both the equipment and the UPS would lead
you to believe.


kathe wrote:
Thank you for your input. The APC I looked at Office Depot SAID it was for
both surge & data. But it may not be true and may not be very good. I
think I will look into the HomeDepot surge protectors. I really don't need
the blackout/brownout as that is not a problem.

K~
"w_tom" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 31, 6:07 pm, "kathe" wrote:
I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of
an APC but am confused by the voltage & watts.
You are seeking a solution to blackouts and brownouts. That is a
battery backup power supply to protect from data loss is power goes
out. The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges
that typically damage computers. That protection is provided
elsewhere.

In most cases, a 250 watt UPS would be more than sufficient. But
a UPS typically sold in computer stores tends to degrade quickly.
Batteries need replacement in as little as three years. Therefore
many may recommend a 600 or 1000 watt UPS.

If lights dim to less than 40% intensity, then a computer may have
to shutdown without saving data. That is what a UPS is for - time to
save that data.

Effective surge protectors don't stop or block surges. Effective
protectors connect surges to earth ground. Therefore an effective
protector is distant from transistors and connects 'less than 10 feet'
to earth ground. Superior and effective protectors for everything in
a residence are sold even for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot.
These effective 'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names
such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic,
etc. Not on that list are products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, etc
who do not have a superior reputation in that first list.

Two different problems solved by two completely different products
located in two different locations. One product for blackouts and
brownouts. Another for surges. Former to protect data. Latter to
protect hardware.

"Watts is more or less the same as Volt-Amperes as far as sizing."

That is not correct; a 500VA unit can only power about a 300 watt pure
resistive load (such as an incandescent light bulb).


Ron Hardin wrote:
Any old battery backup is better than none. It gets you through
power-loss screwups by reducing their number enormously.

Watts is more or less the same as Volt-Amperes as far as sizing.
Use either one and just buy the next size bigger.

A larger-still capacity will give you a longer runtime on your
smaller system, which is what a lot of people go for.

(Very nice would be a small-wattage battery backup with a huge
battery, but nobody seems to sell that.)

I've used Cyberpower, Tripplite and APC, and all work.

Thanks, I will now reconsider the APC unit I was looking at.

K~
"Barry Watzman" wrote in message
...
w_tom is full of it, and his advice/information on this subject is best
ignored.

You really should get a UPS (probably the APC devices you were looking at)
instead of "just" a surge protector. It's both a better and more all
encompassing solution (it's also nice, in an emergency, to be able to run
a light, radio, etc. for a while .... forget the computer).

These are rated in VA (volt-amps), not watts; as a rough average, figure
watts at 60% of VA (e.g. a 500VA unit is good for about 300 watts), but
that number is SO highly variable that it is only the roughest of
guidelines. However, with careful shopping, you can get a 600 to to 900VA
UPS in the $50-$60 range; a larger unit is likely to be $100 to $150, and
I really don't recommend a smaller unit, except as a backup for a laptop.
FWIW, my experience has been that you can power quite a bit more than the
ratings on both the equipment and the UPS would lead you to believe.


kathe wrote:
Thank you for your input. The APC I looked at Office Depot SAID it was
for both surge & data. But it may not be true and may not be very good.
I think I will look into the HomeDepot surge protectors. I really don't
need the blackout/brownout as that is not a problem.

K~
"w_tom" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 31, 6:07 pm, "kathe" wrote:
I am looking for a battery backup surge protector I am thinking of
an APC but am confused by the voltage & watts.
You are seeking a solution to blackouts and brownouts. That is a
battery backup power supply to protect from data loss is power goes
out. The APC, et al units don't even claim to protect from surges
that typically damage computers. That protection is provided
elsewhere.

In most cases, a 250 watt UPS would be more than sufficient. But
a UPS typically sold in computer stores tends to degrade quickly.
Batteries need replacement in as little as three years. Therefore
many may recommend a 600 or 1000 watt UPS.

If lights dim to less than 40% intensity, then a computer may have
to shutdown without saving data. That is what a UPS is for - time to
save that data.

Effective surge protectors don't stop or block surges. Effective
protectors connect surges to earth ground. Therefore an effective
protector is distant from transistors and connects 'less than 10 feet'
to earth ground. Superior and effective protectors for everything in
a residence are sold even for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot.
These effective 'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names
such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic,
etc. Not on that list are products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, etc
who do not have a superior reputation in that first list.

Two different problems solved by two completely different products
located in two different locations. One product for blackouts and
brownouts. Another for surges. Former to protect data. Latter to
protect hardware.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:39:30 -0400, Barry Watzman
wrote:

w_tom is full of it, and his advice/information on this subject is best
ignored.

Hi Barry -- thanks for this. I had images of some large conspiracy
theory on the part of surge protector / UPS makers, but it would be
absurd to think that those devices are useless without it being common
knowledge.

I also am considering the APC UPS. The only thing I am confused about
is why it's not good to plug a surge protector into another surge
protector (just because the redundant ones would then function simply
as outlet strips).

Your point about it also being good for uses other than just the
computer is a good one.

Whatever I get I want to have auto-shutdown software in case power
goes off overnight or when I am not home (my desktop computer is
almost always on). I wouldn't need to do any work on the computer
just make sure it shuts down safely.

Oh, another question for anyone -- if the computer locks up and I
can't even go into task manager, is a power-of by holding the power
button for 12 seconds any safer than if the power should suddenly go
off?