TV Cards - Did you know?

BWGames wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, in uk.comp.vendors, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

Well, I use my TV card for its composite in input from camcorder, not
aerial input and the TV viewing software with it is rubbish.

So, no, its not the only use for it.

Yes, that may be OK without licence. The situation is basically the same
as for people using an un-tuned TV set for the same purpose.

However, the more it looks like a TV receiver, the more you will have
to argue your case.

Whatever you do, the seller of the TV card still has to record your
details or get fined.

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:
....
Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

Umm, to connect a security camera to?

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:



Craven Birds wrote:

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message
...


Craven Birds wrote:

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message
...


Craven Birds wrote:

"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card
and
not
record the buyers name and address and then pass this information
on
to
the
TV Licencing authority within 28 days?

Similiar applies if as a dealer, you sell a PC with a TV card
installed -
new or secondhand.

Information extracted from:
http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html
Section :- TV Dealer Information

So, if say you bought a TV card from PC World, paid cash and they
did
not
request your details, an offence has been commited.

Before you say it -
Another useless fact to fill up the grey matter with!

Absolute rubbish! There is no obligation, because whilst not in a
computer
it cannot receive a TV signal!

Quote: "If you use or install television receiving equipment to
receive
or
record television programme services you are required by law to have
a
valid
TV Licence."

Then look at the site again under TV DEALER INFORMATION

http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html

"Don't forget this also includes"
"o Computers fitted with electronic broadcast cards (TV Cards)."
"o TV Cards themselves"
"o Set-top boxes"

Don't need to! A solicitor would make mince meat of them in court;-) The
bit
of metal alone cannot recieve a TV signal and software is also required
for
it to function. So therefore, I'd dispute the fact that TV Cards
require a
licence.
--

You don't understand that there are two rules: One for people installing
and using TV receiving equipment and another separate rule for TV dealers
who sell said equipment to people installing and... etc.

Yes I do!

The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) requires any dealer who sells
or rents TV receiving equipment (whether the equipment is new or
second-hand) to notify TV Licensing within 28 days of each transaction,
giving full details of the buyer or renter.

Read the above. That does not state anything about a computer ONLY dealer
having to inform the licencing authorities at all! I noticed the original
poster omitted a few words!

We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such
card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence
a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that
sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said
equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem.

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all
computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register
too. Of course to get around it you sell it as a network adapter :-)
The idea was that they could use broadband adapters to pick up digital
TV. Sometimes the licencing company really can come across as odd.

Of course if a computer only dealer sells equipemnt that is capable of
receiving TC signals will still have to notigy the TV licencing
authority. Its a bit like Argos saying we don't have to notify the
authroity becuase they only sell Teenage Mutant Nija Turtle action
figures even though they sell TVs.

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:54:06 -0000, "tHatDudeUK"
wrote:


"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card and not
record the buyers name and address and then pass this information on to
the
TV Licencing authority within 28 days?

Give fake details or if mail order get it sent to a mates house who has a tv
license ;-)

Our local Tescos didn't bother when I bought my TV. Then again I wish
I hadn't of bothered with a Wharfdale TV, its horrid.

Bagpuss wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:



Craven Birds wrote:

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message
...


Craven Birds wrote:

"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message
...


Craven Birds wrote:

"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card
and
not
record the buyers name and address and then pass this information
on
to
the
TV Licencing authority within 28 days?

Similiar applies if as a dealer, you sell a PC with a TV card
installed -
new or secondhand.

Information extracted from:
http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html
Section :- TV Dealer Information

So, if say you bought a TV card from PC World, paid cash and they
did
not
request your details, an offence has been commited.

Before you say it -
Another useless fact to fill up the grey matter with!

Absolute rubbish! There is no obligation, because whilst not in a
computer
it cannot receive a TV signal!

Quote: "If you use or install television receiving equipment to
receive
or
record television programme services you are required by law to have
a
valid
TV Licence."

Then look at the site again under TV DEALER INFORMATION

http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html

"Don't forget this also includes"
"o Computers fitted with electronic broadcast cards (TV Cards)."
"o TV Cards themselves"
"o Set-top boxes"

Don't need to! A solicitor would make mince meat of them in court;-) The
bit
of metal alone cannot recieve a TV signal and software is also required
for
it to function. So therefore, I'd dispute the fact that TV Cards
require a
licence.
--

You don't understand that there are two rules: One for people installing
and using TV receiving equipment and another separate rule for TV dealers
who sell said equipment to people installing and... etc.

Yes I do!

The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) requires any dealer who sells
or rents TV receiving equipment (whether the equipment is new or
second-hand) to notify TV Licensing within 28 days of each transaction,
giving full details of the buyer or renter.

Read the above. That does not state anything about a computer ONLY dealer
having to inform the licencing authorities at all! I noticed the original
poster omitted a few words!

We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such
card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence
a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that
sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said
equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem.

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all
computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register
too.

Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road
do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors
and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these
components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is
that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive
TV channels. The broadband adapter does not.

In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that
a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation.

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:08:16 +0000, Mike Scott
k wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:
...
Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

Umm, to connect a security camera to?

But do you need a TV decoder to do this? The problem is the decoder
bit to pick up and decode the TV signals. Its OK to have a monitor
feed ro the like which is used for closed circuit cameras. In that
case you should be using a video capture card not a TV decoder if you
don't want them at the door. Even then they will still insist on
harrasing you.

They seem at times to go on the "you don't have a licenence then you
must be watching TV illegally". A friend of mine got taken to court
for not having a TV licence for a broken TV. He didn't have a licence
becuase he couldn't afford to repair/replace the TV so thought there
was no point in buying a licence for a non functioning device.
Thankfully IIRC it got thrown out of court [1].

[1] No the TV that is :-)

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:


We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such
card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence
a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that
sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said
equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem.

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all
computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register
too.

Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road
do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors
and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these
components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is
that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive
TV channels. The broadband adapter does not.

In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that
a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation.

I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have
been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-)

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:22:24 +0000, Bagpuss wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:08:16 +0000, Mike Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:
...
Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

Umm, to connect a security camera to?

But do you need a TV decoder to do this? The problem is the decoder

It's easy and cards are cheap. Just a theoretical observation - I do
use the card for teletext reception anyway so need a licence.

bit to pick up and decode the TV signals. Its OK to have a monitor
feed ro the like which is used for closed circuit cameras. In that
case you should be using a video capture card not a TV decoder if you
don't want them at the door. Even then they will still insist on
harrasing you.

They seem at times to go on the "you don't have a licenence then you
must be watching TV illegally". A friend of mine got taken to court
for not having a TV licence for a broken TV. He didn't have a licence
becuase he couldn't afford to repair/replace the TV so thought there
was no point in buying a licence for a non functioning device.
Thankfully IIRC it got thrown out of court [1].

I do btw now have a TV and licence. But I was rather embarrassed some
years ago, when we didn't have a TV (or computer) (yes, some people do
live that way :-) ). I had one of the "you're unlicensed" threatening
letters, which arrived a week before we actually went out to buy a TV.
I still wonder whether the ptb (powers that be - a new tla? :-) )
thought we'd been bludgeoned into becoming legal!

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
regards. Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)

Bagpuss wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:


We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such
card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence
a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that
sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said
equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem.

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all
computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register
too.

Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road
do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors
and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these
components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is
that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive
TV channels. The broadband adapter does not.

In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that
a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation.

I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have
been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-)

I have just terminated my TV license by end of January. I thought that it
was poor value and needed to save up some money, so I'm taking a TV pause.
In any case, I'm allowed to choose what I spend my money on.

You have to explicitly terminate the licence, otherwise they will
automatically backdate it next time you apply for a new licence. This is
one of their little known tricks they're allowed to do. (See small print
on the licence application).

I expect the invisible van to come round any time soon, so I have no
intentions of any sneak viewing, but I expect to be harassed a bit.

Bagpuss wrote:
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:


We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such
card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence
a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that
sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said
equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem.

Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he
installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a
gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would
to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in
the first place.

From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all
computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register
too.

Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road
do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors
and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these
components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is
that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive
TV channels. The broadband adapter does not.

In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that
a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation.

I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have
been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-)

I hope no-one in the Govt. is reading this thread or it may well happen ;-)

Sadly, this is just another example of this, and previous, Govts. coming
up with ever more ways to screw money out of us (aka Stealth Tax).

The DVLA is even worse than TV Licensing. We all know that, with a few
exceptions, if you use a motor vehicle on the public roads then you need
a valid tax disk, but now since SORN was introduced 10(?) years ago you
are committing an offence if you don't tell the DVLA that you are not
using your vehicle on the road. Obviously this is to aid the DVLA and
Police target those who are using unlicensed vehicles but it,
potentially, turns law-abiding citizens into criminals.

What next, you have to fill in a form, under pain of prosecution and a
£1000 fine, stating that you don't/no longer have TV receiving eqipment?