INCD puzzle

I never used this crap until lately, and for the first time. I get as far as
formatting a disk and thats it. How does one get INCD to work. I click on the
application and nothing appears. I did see it on the drive in windows explorer,
but that only gets me into formatting. I can't believe that from what I read
here that people prefer INCD over Easy Creator cd's direct cd. I had no problem
with it, unfortunately ECCD does not recognize my Samsung burner, so i can't go
back to that.

(Wishy13764) wrote in
:

I never used this crap until lately, and for the first time. I get as
far as formatting a disk and thats it. How does one get INCD to work.
I click on the application and nothing appears. I did see it on the
drive in windows explorer, but that only gets me into formatting. I
can't believe that from what I read here that people prefer INCD over
Easy Creator cd's direct cd. I had no problem with it, unfortunately
ECCD does not recognize my Samsung burner, so i can't go back to that.

What do you want the program to do? Once its formatted just use it as you
would a floppy. Open the drive and drag&drop.

Wishy13764 04 Jan 2004 00:50:54 GMT wrote ...

I never used this crap until lately, and for the first time. I get as far as
formatting a disk and thats it. How does one get INCD to work. I click on the
application and nothing appears. I did see it on the drive in windows explorer,
but that only gets me into formatting. I can't believe that from what I read
here that people prefer INCD over Easy Creator cd's direct cd. I had no problem
with it, unfortunately ECCD does not recognize my Samsung burner, so i can't go
back to that.

I have never had any problem with InCD.
I use MRW ( Mount Rainier )

(win98SE / InCD3.39.0 / LG GCC 4480B CDRW/DVD combo, 5 months )

--
"Libor the Wanderer"
Sorry for my english in case of such troubles.
As dialup user I am sorry for late response.
ForPrivateResponseRemoveDelAndThisFromAboveAddress .

I have never had any problem with InCD.
I use MRW ( Mount Rainier )

Good, another format that some of us never heard of. It would be nice to
explain what MRW is.

Wishy13764 07 Jan 2004 14:24:26 GMT wrote ...

I have never had any problem with InCD.
I use MRW ( Mount Rainier )

Good, another format that some of us never heard of. It would be nice to
explain what MRW is.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Arti...sp?ArticleHead
line=Mt.+Rainier+Format


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This article was printed from CDRInfo,
located at http://www.cdrinfo.com/.
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Mt. Rainier Format
Appeared on 2/18/2002, 12:13:36 AM


CD-MRW Format

Source: Philips


- Introduction:
The Mount Rainier Technical Group is an industry organization that has
defined a defect managed format for standard CD-RW media. The format is
named CD-MRW (Mount Rainier RW).

Mount Rainier enables native OS support of data storage on CD-RW. This
makes the technology far easier to use and allows the replacement of the
floppy. This is done by having defect management in the drive, by making
the drive 2k addressable, by using background formatting, and by
standardizing both command set and physical layout. The new standard is
promoted by Compaq, Microsoft, Philips, and Sony and is supported by 38
industry leaders: OS vendors, PC-OEM's, ISV's, chip makers, and media
makers.

- How this will come in the market?

With new recorders under the "CD-MRW" code name. These new CD-MRW ("M"
is short for "Mt. Rainier") disc drives include defect management, and
address the disk interchange problem by specifying the UDF format for
use on CD-RW disks to ensure a standard for disk interchange between
different computer systems. To take advantage of these new features, the
drive requires a new type of software to support CD-RW media.

- In which RW format can be used?

Mt. Rainier can be used in both 1-4x and 4-10x (HS-RW) formats. The file
system of the Mt. Rainier format would be, UDF 1.02 or 2.01.

- What's new?

The Mount Rainier project has 5 key elements:

- Physical defect management by the drive
- Logical write-addressing at 2k
- Background formatting
- Command set implementation
- Compatibility and standards-compliance

Defect Management in the Drive

In the last few years, several solutions have been developed to allow
easy drag & drop writing upon both CD-R and CD-RW media. Most solutions
are based upon UDF v1.50, which includes defect management. However this
is done by the software not the drive. A drive which includes defect
management will handle them easier and quicker. Also that makes the
file-system and the compatible applications since they don't have to
knowledge of the drive/media defect characterization & capabilities. CD-
ROMs have no knowledge on how handling defect-sparing. The Mount Rainier
group ensures that CD-ROM's will be able to read Mount-Rainier disks
though a generic read-driver, allowing read-back compatibility. This
drive will be intergraded inside Windows OS (hence the Microsoft
participation)...



2 K Addressing

With the current CD-RW format, a block-size of 64 kB is required when
most data systems are based on 2k or 4k addressing capabilities. The
Mount-Rainier group has solved this issue and adopted 2k logical
addressing. This allows file-system and caching capabilities of the host
to be transparent for the media related block-size.



Background Formatting

We all know that in order to use a packet writing software, the
necessary formatting must be done. The Mt. Rainier format solves that
problem also. After the disc is inserted to a CD-MRW drive, a
background formatting will be done, invisible to end user. That
minimizes the time which a user has to wait until the disc is ready for
sure. The formatting is very quick (few seconds). The use-experience is
optimized by ensuring that drag & drop data-storage tasks will get
priority above progress of "de-icing" and "finalization" in the
background by the drive.



Command Set

The Mt. Rainer group will add all commands and mode-pages in the MMC-3
standard.

Compatibility and Standardization

The Mount Rainier group main focus is to make sure that there will be no
compatibility issues with existing and future drive. Also the need for
vendor-related legacy support will be reduced.


CD-MRW Format - Page 2

Source: Philips

- Techical information

From the perspective of the CD-RW System Description, the entire
capacity of a MRW disc consists of a single session containing a single
track of 32 sector fixed packets.


Track/Session Structure of a CD-MRW Disc

The MRW disc does have this format, but the CD-MRW Defect Management &
Physical Formatting requires additional features, built upon the basic
format:



Lead-in, Part A: TOC, no change

Lead-in, Part B: TOC (in sub-channel Q) along with MTA (information is
stored in main channel). Prior to CD-MRW, the lead-in has always been
recorded track-at-once. With this new format, it is recorded as fixed
packets. The MTA use begins with the packet that precedes the pre-gap.
When needed, the MTA grows backward toward the disc center.

Program Area, Part A: Track 1 pre-gap has a fixed size of 150 sectors.
The TDB identifies the track as a fixed packet track with packet size =
32.

Program Area, Part B: The General Application Area (GAA) is a segment of
the track that is NOT covered by the defect management system. This is
fixed at 32 packets (2 MB of user space).

Program Area, Parts Cx: The Defect Managed Area (DMA) consists of DMA
segments, Cx. Each Cx consists of a spares area (SA) followed by a data
area (DA). Each SA must contain 8 packets. Each DA within C1, C2, ?, Cn-
1, must contain 136 packets for primary data. Cn may contain less than
136 packets, based upon disc capacity. The DMA is the logical
concatenation of all DAs.

Program Area, Part D STA: 33 packets reserved for secondary copies of
the MTA structures.

Lead-out, Part A: Lead-out, no change

The number of Cx is determined as follows: P = number of 32 sector fixed
packets available in the formatted track 1. The number of packets in all
Cx is Pt = P . GAA size . STA size = P . 65. When Pt is divided by 144
(=8 + 136), there is a quotient Q and remainder R. If R .8, then Q = n,
the DA size for each Cx is 136, and the lead-out begins R packets
sooner. If R 8, then Q = n . 1, the DA for C1, C2,...Cn-1 is 136, the
DA for Cn is R . 8 packets in length, and the lead-out is not offset
into the program area.

The Host's primary address space is the DMA. By default, an LBA is
presumed to refer to this address space. Note that LBAs for the DMA do
NOT match LBAs for a similarly formatted pre-MRW disc. The GAA is
available for compatibility with older systems. The GAA LBA space is 0,
1, 2, 3, ?, 1023d. Note that LBAs for the GAA exactly match LBAs for a
similarly formatted pre-MRW disc.

Addressing

When method 2 addressing is used, the LBA of the first sector of the DMA
is at the pre-MRW LBA of (32 + 8)*32 = 1280d. The following table shows
the inequities with pre-MRW LBA references:



The GAA addressing is identical to traditional addressing. The new
method of addressing sectors in the DMA is named "method 3 addressing"
in the CD-MRW Defect Management & Physical Formatting. There is a small
problem: there are two LBA spaces where formerly there was only one. The
MRW Mode Page is used a the method of specific address space selection.
The host may toggle between address spaces (DMA and GAA) by changing the
logical units reference in the MRW Mode Page.

Host Requests/Logical unit Responses

The host may view the MRW disc as a removable magnetic medium with a
2048 byte sector size. This means that the random read capability of MMC
is to be maintained and expanded to include the MRW disc. Additionally,
random write capability must be added specifically for the MRW disc.
Within the logical unit, only the writing of 32 sector fixed packets is
allowed. MMC-1 and MMC-2 logical units share this restriction with their
hosts. When MRW disc is present, the MRW compliant logical unit must not
share this restriction with its host. This is a simple matter of
implementing a read/modify/write for packets.

Background Formatting

Most of the process for formatting a CD-RW disc into the MRW format is
performed in background. During this background formatting process, the
disc is available for both read and write access within the LBA Space as
it shall exist after formatting has completed. The MRW capable drive
shall perform the necessary tasks to assure this access.

It is possible that the user may wish to remove the disc prior to format
completion. This is allowed, however, the medium must be written in
order to assure read compatibility with Multi-read capable read-only
devices. This means that the disc must be closed. The format will begin
again when a host arranges for the format to be restarted.

- How much free space i can have?

A CD-RW disc is mounted into a MRW capable CD-RW drive. The lead-in ATIP
on this disc indicates that the first lead-in begins at 97:38:20 and the
last possible lead-out begins at 75:04:12. Let us assume that the disc
is completely formatted as a CD MRW disc.

The MRW format requires that the program area be formatted as a single
track of fixed packets with 32 user sectors each. This gives us a
maximum of 337812 sectors within the program area (from 00:00:00 to but
not including 75:04:12). At 00:02:00 we will find the first user sector.
This means that the first packet invades the track 1 pre-gap by 5
sectors. So, 337667 sectors may be dedicated to fixed packets. This
yields 8658 packets with 5 sectors remaining (337 812 - (150 - 175) = 39
* 8 658 + 5). The 5 extra sectors are moved into the lead-out.

The GAA requires 32 packets from the beginning of the program area while
the STA requires 33 packets at the end of the program area. This leaves
8 658 - 65 = 8593 packets for the DMA. Each SA/DA pair is 144 packets in
length. 8593 = 59*144 + 97, so we may have 59 SA/DA pairs with 97
packets remaining. Of these 97 packets, 8 are reserved for the final SA,
leaving 89 packets for the final DA. The actual number of user sectors
in the DMA is 32*(59*136+89) = 25916.



--
"Libor the Wanderer"
Sorry for my english in case of such troubles.
As dialup user I am sorry for late response.
ForPrivateResponseRemoveDelAndThisFromAboveAddress .