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#12
February 10th 05, 08:39 PM
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Matt writes:
What is the typical behavior of BIOSes at idle? A continuous loop, from what I've seen. Even if you do nothing in the BIOS menus, the temperature of the processor will gradually rise as it loops waiting for input. I had a Biostar M7NCD Pro with Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton). I normally run Linux, but I don't have a way to check CPU temp under Linux. But when it was idling in Linux and I shut Linux down and went immediately (without power down) into the health-status page of the BIOS, I would see the temp rise in about twenty minutes from about 38 C to about 48 C. So it seemed to run about 10 C hotter when idling in the BIOS than when idling in Linux. Linux halts the processor when the OS is idle. The BIOS doesn't. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. 
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#13
February 10th 05, 08:39 PM
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it seems to me that you have all the hardware angles covered, less the Hard
drive failure scenario. You never mentioned Antivirus. 2000 has its exploits too. As your probably aware, there were many virus patterns that included a warning then shut down and then some that just shut you down. Your temps are fine IMO. "S. Whitmore" wrote in message news:FcEOd.16937$uc.8354@trnddc04... I recently upgraded my system and now have a new AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on a new ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo, with a new Enermax 470W "Noisetaker" PSU. Ambient temps have been consistenly in the 65-75F range, and for the couple of weeks I've had the new hardware running, the mobo and CPU temps have been pretty consistently in the 75-85F range (depending on load, of course, and lately I haven't been doing much as I also reorganized my hard drives and I'm still getting things reinstalled and reconfigured). Those temps are as reported by ASUS PC Probe, which I have running all the time in the background (i.e., tooltray). Tonight I got the unpleasant surprise of my system shutting down suddenly. No warning, no error, no alarm or alert from PC Probe, no gentle close -- just suddenly a dark screen, silence, and the monitor shifting into sleep mode. I powered it up again and it ran for a short time and then it shut down again, just as abruptly. Both times, the Ethernet indicators were still lit on the mobo and the PSU was doing it's post-shutdown cool-down (this PSU continues exhausting the case for a couple minutes after shutdown). My first "suspect" was a power problem, specifically with the UPS, because another of the same type that I got in the same order from newegg.com just went back w/ an RMA today. But it didn't really seem right, so I did some looking online in various discussion groups. Most pointed to either a PSU failure (possible) or a temp problem. I didn't think it would be temp related because the system wasn't under any real load and hadn't been on very long. The first time it happened, I was in the middle of rebooting after changing my network configuration. The second time it happened I was just reading a message in Mozilla mail. Despite thinking it wasn't a temp problem, I decided it was easy to check for that, so I booted the system and went right into the BIOS Setup. Watched, and didn't like what I saw. The mobo temp stayed in the same range it's been in, but the CPU was steadily climbing as I watched. When it got to 110F (after about 3 or 4 minutes) I shut it down, since I was already seeing what looked to me like bad behavior. (I'm assuming sitting and watching the hardware monitor in the BIOS Setup does not impose much of a CPU load -- am I wrong?) After awhile, I decided to ask online, so I booted up to Windows 2000. As I write this message, PC Probe is again saying that my CPU temp is in the 75-85F range (at the moment, 28C/82F). So maybe the problem has gone away for now, or maybe PC Probe isn't reporting temps correctly. I would appreciate ideas and input on this abrupt shutdown problem and/or the CPU temp behavior that I'm seeing. TIA, -- Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce) Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo http://www.just-stuart.com/
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#14
February 10th 05, 08:59 PM
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JAD wrote:
a troll disagrees with you in one line nonsense. Path: be02_text!hwmnpeer02.lga!hw-filter.lga!hwmnpeer01.lga!hwmedia!cycny01.gnilin k.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!wns14feed!w orldnet.att.net!207.115.63 .142!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsms t01a.news.prodigy.com!prod igy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr11.news .prodigy.com.POSTED!674205 56!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load? From: John Doe References: FcEOd.16937$uc.8354@trnddc04 j6FOd.16206$uc.1566@trnddc08 Organization: sometimes Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/06.08.25 Lines: 59 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.153.49.208 X-Complaints-To: X-Trace: newssvr11.news.prodigy.com 1108030519 ST000 69.153.49.208 (Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:15:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:15:19 EST X-UserInfo1: TSU[@SVDZZWARWD[FJKD^RLARJT@QDDMEPWXODMMHXMTWA]EPMS[AACY@TZZXQ[KS^ESKCJLOF_J _NGAWNTG^_XGTNTAHULK[X[NRTC@G\P^PLT_OCBRHUO@@TBQZDZMHD[YZ@NLXQXIWMOSXT_KOLK^ ^CXFF\WHMI^C@EGA_[FXAQ@E^TGNMUXGYNS[QQVL Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:15:19 GMT Xref: Hurricane-Charley alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:39325 Mxsmanic wrote: S. Whitmore writes: Nope, not going to XP. XP, 2000, and NT all have the same kernel and code base, That is false. so switching to from one to another would make no difference in this case. That is wild speculation based on faulty information or at best based on a half truth. I'm not trying to sell Microsoft products. I'm simply trying to help the user solve his problem. Please keep in mind I called the suggestion about switching to Windows XP a "nuke style workaround". In fact, Windows XP is a more modern operating system which handles things better, whether or not you can cope with that idea. It was an uneasy upgrade for me as well. "John Doe" wrote in message ... Mxsmanic wrote: S. Whitmore writes: Nope, not going to XP. XP, 2000, and NT all have the same kernel and code base, That is false. so switching to from one to another would make no difference in this case. That is wild speculation based on faulty information or at best based on a half truth. I'm not trying to sell Microsoft products. I'm simply trying to help the user solve his problem. Please keep in mind I called the suggestion about switching to Windows XP a "nuke style workaround". In fact, Windows XP is a more modern operating system which handles things better, whether or not you can cope with that idea. It was an uneasy upgrade for me as well. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. Path: newssvr11.news.prodigy.com!newscon03.news.prodigy. com!newsmst01a.news.prodig y.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodi gy.net!border1.nntp.dca.gi ganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.gigan ews.com!news.giganews.com. POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:45:02 -0600 From: Mxsmanic From: Mxsmanic mxsmanic @hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load? Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:45:02 +0100 Organization: None Message-ID: Message-ID: s8bm01hfbr6m6jmh3ur3vc3ss269cscb2r @4ax.com References: FcEOd.16937$uc.8354@trnddc04 j6FOd.16206$uc.1566@trnddc08 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 X-Trace: sv3-qVijxNYX4GdNN0+krugUcV3UB0ZtsG8jU/f8ZhcCNuBKeBzRlwbNPqVFg4G9/Z+byz3dD8eo bx08Mze!wVbM08iTYGwdH4U+E9REQCcXucQkX3Px/f0+VjlUATATHfD6JFVDEWwAgiBftsojlA== X-Complaints-To: X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.23 Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:429083 LOL
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#15
February 10th 05, 09:02 PM
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Matt writes: What is the typical behavior of BIOSes at idle? A continuous loop, from what I've seen. Even if you do nothing in the BIOS menus, the temperature of the processor will gradually rise as it loops waiting for input. I had a Biostar M7NCD Pro with Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton). I normally run Linux, but I don't have a way to check CPU temp under Linux. But when it was idling in Linux and I shut Linux down and went immediately (without power down) into the health-status page of the BIOS, I would see the temp rise in about twenty minutes from about 38 C to about 48 C. So it seemed to run about 10 C hotter when idling in the BIOS than when idling in Linux. Linux halts the processor when the OS is idle. The BIOS doesn't. Thanks. Presumably the main or only advantage of halting is to save energy.
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#16
February 10th 05, 09:23 PM
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A not quite grown-up perpetually top posting troll who cannot handle
being corrected for giving obviously bad advice to someone seeking help from this group. http://tinyurl.com/3lneg Message-ID: Message-ID: 8MABd.47038$pF1.42093 @fe06.lga "JAD" wrote: Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net !news.glorb.com!atl-c03.usenetserver.com!hwmnpeer01.phx!hwmedia!hw-poster!fe06.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: "JAD" From: "JAD" kapasitor @earthcharter.net Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt References: FcEOd.16937$uc.8354@trnddc04 j6FOd.16206$uc.1566@trnddc08 Subject: CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load? Lines: 126 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Message-ID: WDPOd.4997$dZ.3890 @fe06.lga X-Trace: dkoicekneficefklldeombdpnajfmnhoamgkolminjdchkjkfc ccdnnagloeleneplnamjofdhaonobpekbcabnehelknhebnnfb cinncalfhmhfkpcfpjhbbdnejfmhegcmjhhibopfakdb NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:39:18 MST Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:33:39 -0800 Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:429117 a troll disagrees with you in one line nonsense. ....
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#17
February 10th 05, 09:42 PM
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David Maynard wrote:
(I'm assuming sitting and watching the hardware monitor in the BIOS Setup does not impose much of a CPU load -- am I wrong?) Yes, because the CPU does not go into any power saving or sleep modes when in the BIOS like it does when the operating system is at idle; which is most of the time if you're not doing anything intensive. Ok, thanks -- this is the most salient point of this thread. So I will continue looking at reasons other than a steadily rising "at-rest" CPU temperature since that wasn't what I was seeing after all (i.e., it was not "at rest"). The shutdown could be caused by a myriad of things. Check your event logs, although your symptoms suggest it dies before an event could be recorded. Yeah, I haven't looked at the system logs yet but I doubt there's anything there, it's too abrupt of a shutdown; also, the first shutdown was before any OS was loaded, which would preclude any OS-related logs. Given other things I've read online, the PSU is back to being my #1 suspect, although there are a couple other things I could see playing a role. Thanks, -- Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce) Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo http://www.just-stuart.com/
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#18
February 10th 05, 09:52 PM
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John Doe wrote:
Yes. As I recall, shutting down happens. These days, saying "shut down Windows" can do it. Not when Windows isn't running, i.e., when the system abruptly shuts down before the OS is loaded. I'm having trouble reading between the lines. Your entire original post dwelled on the idea that it was CPU overheating. Given the facts, I can't imagine a worse lead. Sorry the logic of it is escaping you. First, understand that an overheated CPU (at least, of the type relevant here, per my original post) will shut down. I've never experienced that, so I don't know what that will "look like" -- i.e., the system as a whole shutting down, or...? Second, understand that I was accustomed to seeing my CPU temps in a steady range when I looked at it after Windows 2000 was up and running, using ASUS PC Probe, but when I was looking at it in the BIOS, the temperature seemed to be rising steadily without my doing anything -- and that I didn't realize at that time that the BIOS would keep the CPU busy even when I wasn't doing anything. So given the facts (as I understood them at the time) -- that an overheated CPU will shut down and that the CPU is "mysteriously" heating up when it "shouldn't" be -- I can't imagine why you can't imagine a worse lead. Now that I know there's no mystery in the rising CPU temperature, I'll be looking at other factors. Probably the PSU, since it's highly doubtful that it's related to Windows 2000, since the first shut-down happened before Windows 2000 even started to load. (In my original post I indicated that "[t]he first time it happened, I was in the middle of rebooting after changing my network configuration" but I could have been more clear by pointing out that the reboot process had not proceeded as far as Windows 2000 starting to load.) -- Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce) Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo http://www.just-stuart.com/
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#19
February 10th 05, 09:56 PM
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Mxsmanic wrote:
But you left out the most important part: What OPERATING SYSTEM are you running? Sorry, I was not clear enough about a certain point in my original post. When I said that "[t]he first time it happened, I was in the middle of rebooting after changing my network configuration," I should have made it clear that it was before any OS started to load. Thus, I was not thinking about OS-specific causes, and only looking at the hardware. FWIW, it's a dual boot system with Windows 2000 and GNU/Linux (Slackware 10). When it crashed, I'm fairly sure that I had not even seen the LILO prompt. (Although, to be fair, I wasn't expecting this to happen so I wasn't watching very closely -- however, I do recall seeing the ASUS boot logo on the screen right before or as the system shut down.) Thanks, -- Stuart Whitmore , sans -bounce) Science fiction, politics, pretty models, & mo http://www.just-stuart.com/
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#20
February 10th 05, 09:58 PM
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Mxsmanic wrote:
John Doe writes: That is false. I've read the source code. Hey ya, Burt! That is wild speculation based on faulty information or at best based on a half truth. See above. Current Microsoft Windows operating systems are derived from the Windows NT code base, because NT is very well written. The base has evolved and differs somewhat from product to product, and there are cosmetic and configuration differences, but under the hood they are mostly the same, as careful examination of the operating systems reveals. I guess you could write volumes on the subject. Who knows. Your dismissal of my suggestion to upgrade the operating system is not based on the problem as described. The original poster recently upgraded to a new mainboard and CPU. Like it or not, new hardware potentially benefits from a more recent operating system, probably/typically more than any other change in circumstance. Windows XP produces fewer failures. Windows XP is the current technology. Windows 2000 and Windows NT are aging. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews .com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:15:35 -0600 From: Mxsmanic From: Mxsmanic mxsmanic @hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: CPU temps stable, then rising w/o load? Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:15:35 +0100 Organization: None Message-ID: Message-ID: 5gnm01h032053k03kn9plp2oflpob7cini @4ax.com References: FcEOd.16937$uc.8354@trnddc04 j6FOd.16206$uc.1566@trnddc08 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 X-Trace: sv3-4B3pIaTf64ugNLyx/uaqhWVYZoU9livF0uxD9E5rH79BP7XDAOKzf4k9HP6bPmtg6TM VldZuC6FxBo+!GlzvU/M6dKAMosgFMVGOErWAm5HANtCbzPc2PyYMRd1JM3Bw7nG2Y/L/pkhgbIAuUA== X-Complaints-To: X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.23 Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:429093
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