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#81
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:11:33 GMT, flux wrote:
In article , "Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com wrote: Curious George wrote: Companies that are trying to make SATA fit better for larger enterprise scenario make boxes with a SATA-SCSI bridge. These are not bargain basement/soho cheap & you're still using scsi cabling & HBA's so the economics are somewhat questionable. Very questionable if using Raptors. This is just as effective and just as foolish as putting a 3.5HP Brigs & Stratton lawnmower engine in a Porsche 911. If you want a system to be like SCSI you should just buy SCSI in the first place. All this dicking around doesn't change the fact that all the wasted money and time you threw at SATA will ever get you to square one. In other words it makes a lot of sense. No. She's actually right. In other words you're just arguing for argument's sake. In short 50 SATA spindles per computer is indeed a mess & not as cheap as you think. Why screw with them in the first place? I can see if you're building a novelty toy gaming system for your teenage children you might have something, but deploying this crap in an enterprise environment is totally and utterly foolish. So why is everyone doing that? Who said everyone? |
#83
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:07:59 GMT, flux wrote:
In article , Curious George wrote: & one more thing- you also have to connect the anode & diode wires for the drive activity from the controller to the backplane. It gets so messy that some of the larger controllers don't even bother with individual drive activity. That's true and it's just dumb. Ah we finally agree This is why presently the external soho boxes group the drives into a single logical unit and connect to the computer on one SATA channel - but that means max bandwidth is now 150 MB/sec minus overhead for all SOHO boxes? Single channels across the whole box? Who's doing that? IIRC this family of products http://www.firewiredirect.com/store/...me.php?cat=423 The array appears as a single unit connected via either FireWire800, USBv2.0/1.1 or SATA Interface the drives in the external box in addition to any other limitations/ inefficiencies of this uncommon, low-end solution. Companies that are trying to make SATA fit better for larger enterprise scenario make boxes with a SATA-SCSI bridge. These are not bargain basement/soho cheap & you're still using scsi cabling & HBA's so the economics are somewhat questionable. Very questionable if using Raptors. The economics aren't questionable if you want space. For that, you can't beat Hitachi 7K400s. Yes and no- as has been explained ad nauseum In short 50 SATA spindles per computer is indeed a mess & not as cheap as you think. Yes, it is. Ah we finally agree |
#84
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flux wrote:
Because it's point to point stupid. If there are, say 7 disks connected to a normal backplane you need to connect 7 cables to the backplane. That's the purpose of the Serial ATA II Port Multiplier Technology which for all intensive purposes is vaporware or at least immature. All of which renders it unpractical and useless in real world applications, except, of course, in AMD boxes, which nobody real cares about anyway. SCSI In other words, they are rapidly becoming popular. So are the PS2, X-Box, and the Game Cube. This doesn't mean that I would want to pretend that these games are any more than, well, just games. I wouldn't want to run the TSA's software on a Game Cube nor would I on anything SATA or AMD based. I think you'll find SATA and AMD are about as hard to find on a TSA site as a glacier in the middle of the Mohave Desert. Rita |
#85
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flux wrote:
This is just as effective and just as foolish as putting a 3.5HP Brigs & Stratton lawnmower engine in a Porsche 911. If you want a system to be like SCSI you should just buy SCSI in the first place. All this dicking around doesn't change the fact that all the wasted money and time you threw at SATA will ever get you to square one. In other words it makes a lot of sense. Sure, it makes a lot of sense if all you want is to have higher numbers (storage) without any performance and reliability (SATA) for the sake of, well high numbers. I guess posers infect all walks of life and areas when it comes to hardware? Hey, if it makes you feel better to brag about massive amounts of storage (penis envy) without performance or reliability, go ahead and knock yourself out. In short 50 SATA spindles per computer is indeed a mess & not as cheap as you think. Why screw with them in the first place? I can see if you're building a novelty toy gaming system for your teenage children you might have something, but deploying this crap in an enterprise environment is totally and utterly foolish. So why is everyone doing that? So why are so many Catholic priests molesting children? Just because there are a group or large number of people doing it doesn't make it right. Rita |
#86
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:45:02 -0400, "Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04
@aol.com wrote: So why is everyone doing that? So why are so many Catholic priests molesting children? And why do rabbis & ministers do that also at roughly th same rate? That's a bad example. Anti-catholicism is just as bad as anti Semitism. You should be more sensitive to this. Just because there are a group or large number of people doing it doesn't make it right. Is this SATA- SCSI stuff really all that common? Depends on what you're looking at I guess. Flux believes it could be common because he likes it - but post after post admits to having no knowledge of or experience with any of the products or concepts cited in this thread. Let's not humor his guess-based inferences as fact. |
#87
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"Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04 @aol.com writes:
I think you'll find SATA and AMD are about as hard to find on a TSA site as a glacier in the middle of the Mohave Desert. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable Advanced Micro Devices' new server chip will be the centerpiece of Cray Inc.'s $90 million project to build a supercomputer for the Department of Energy's Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore. ... The supercomputer, which will contain 10,000 of AMD's 64-bit Opteron chips, will be among the fastest systems in the world, said Kenneth Johnson, general counsel at Cray, which is based in Seattle. |
#88
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Paul Rubin wrote:
Advanced Micro Devices' new server chip will be the centerpiece of Cray Inc.'s $90 million project to build a supercomputer for the Department of Energy's Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore. ... The supercomputer, which will contain 10,000 of AMD's 64-bit Opteron chips, will be among the fastest systems in the world, said Kenneth Johnson, general counsel at Cray, which is based in Seattle. That's old news. The sole purpose for this beast is to generate heat. If it weren't for the high heat generating properties of the Opteron they surely would have used the Itanium2. Though, I must say I could generate heat more efficiently and cheaper using a 40KW load bank. Rita |
#89
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Curious George wrote:
So why are so many Catholic priests molesting children? And why do rabbis & ministers do that also at roughly th same rate? That's a bad example. Anti-catholicism is just as bad as anti Semitism. You should be more sensitive to this. Name one child molestation case involving a Rabbi? It wasn't meant to sound anti-catholic. Just because there are a group or large number of people doing it doesn't make it right. Is this SATA- SCSI stuff really all that common? Depends on what you're looking at I guess. Flux believes it could be common because he likes it - but post after post admits to having no knowledge of or experience with any of the products or concepts cited in this thread. Let's not humor his guess-based inferences as fact. Don't get me wrong since SATA has its place. SATA will eventually be the wave of the future for all over-the-counter consumer appliances; it's not that we'll see that happening in the next decade, though. The issue I have is when you see a piece of technology (SATA) do its best to emulate something it's trying to replace (SCSI) and not being able to do it well. And when it even gets to be a contender it will be just as expensive as SCSI/FC. So, I only see limited benefit to using SATA in non-critical applications in the near future. Rita |
#90
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:03:34 -0400, "Rita Ä Berkowitz" ritaberk2O04
@aol.com wrote: Curious George wrote: So why are so many Catholic priests molesting children? And why do rabbis & ministers do that also at roughly th same rate? That's a bad example. Anti-catholicism is just as bad as anti Semitism. You should be more sensitive to this. Name one child molestation case involving a Rabbi? It wasn't meant to sound anti-catholic. This is a storage group not a religious or child molestation group so I don't want to get into a discussion of specific cases. I also don't want to be involved in posts which may appear (albeit incorrectly) to smear rabbis, ministers or the media just I don't like to see smearing priests. The most important people in my life are survivors or were friends of the family involved in the resistance movement or helping Jews (yes there were Catholic clergy who saved Jews also). The lessons from that generation are supposed to teach everyone to be more tolerant and less susceptible to "mob rule" or ignorance-based cruelty. I bring this up so you understand my slant, not to introduce a contentious historical debate to this group. It is a simple fact that this type of abuse, as well as other sexual scandals, occur in every social realm, your familiarity or amount of news-time notwithstanding. If you're interested there are public criminal records including statistics and newspaper articles at your disposal. It's irresponsible and a bit naive to believe headline frequency is representative of what's going on in the world and that the headlines tell the whole story. Just because there are a group or large number of people doing it doesn't make it right. True. Is this SATA- SCSI stuff really all that common? Depends on what you're looking at I guess. Flux believes it could be common because he likes it - but post after post admits to having no knowledge of or experience with any of the products or concepts cited in this thread. Let's not humor his guess-based inferences as fact. Don't get me wrong since SATA has its place. SATA will eventually be the wave of the future for all over-the-counter consumer appliances; it's not that we'll see that happening in the next decade, though. The issue I have is when you see a piece of technology (SATA) do its best to emulate something it's trying to replace (SCSI) and not being able to do it well. And when it even gets to be a contender it will be just as expensive as SCSI/FC. So, I only see limited benefit to using SATA in non-critical applications in the near future. We're not disagreeing on this. I've been citing everything I could think of to explain (in plain English) why SATA (at this time) makes little sense in _most_ normal & important storage environments. I did leave out the 3ware Multilane connections, for example, to see if Flux might engage me on it when discussing his 50 spindle example. But it appears to be just another thing he's never heard of or seen. |
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