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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help.
I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. |
#2
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Ihatefishsauce formuleerde op donderdag :
Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. Hi, Just connect the drives to thier respective connection's on the motherboard. Also you have to take a look in the BIOS, because there might be a setting for the 2 SATA ports (RAID or JBOD). One advice is: if you are not planning to use the SATA drives in a RAID configuration, connect 1 drive first, and after OS install, the second one. HINT: Keep the SATA install drive at hand, WinXp install might ask for it. Good luck, André |
#3
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
On Jul 13, 7:05 am, André, PE1PQX wrote:
Ihatefishsauce formuleerde op donderdag : Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. Hi, Just connect the drives to thier respective connection's on the motherboard. Also you have to take a look in the BIOS, because there might be a setting for the 2 SATA ports (RAID or JBOD). One advice is: if you are not planning to use the SATA drives in a RAID configuration, connect 1 drive first, and after OS install, the second one. HINT: Keep the SATA install drive at hand, WinXp install might ask for it. Good luck, André Andre.. I am not following. especially the sentence "keep the SATA install drive at hand, WinXp install might ask for it." I am kind of looking for a more detailed procedure. ......step by step. |
#4
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Ihatefishsauce schreef :
On Jul 13, 7:05 am, André, PE1PQX wrote: Ihatefishsauce formuleerde op donderdag : Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. Hi, Just connect the drives to thier respective connection's on the motherboard. Also you have to take a look in the BIOS, because there might be a setting for the 2 SATA ports (RAID or JBOD). One advice is: if you are not planning to use the SATA drives in a RAID configuration, connect 1 drive first, and after OS install, the second one. HINT: Keep the SATA install drive at hand, WinXp install might ask for it. Good luck, André Andre.. I am not following. especially the sentence "keep the SATA install drive at hand, WinXp install might ask for it." I am kind of looking for a more detailed procedure. ......step by step. Windows XP installer normally does not have the SATA drivers in it. Therefore you need to press F6 (during install) to use the SATA drivers of ASUS. Just look at the bottom of the blue installer screen (first is shows 'press F2 for autmatic repair' or something like that, after this message it shows 'press F6 to install SATA/RAID drivers' Just have a look at http://www.petri.co.il/install_windows_xp_pro.htm Here is a kind of manual for installing Windows XP. I was referring to step 3, point 2 (press F6 etc...) Good luck, and let us know if it worked. André |
#5
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Ihatefishsauce wrote:
Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. The P5GDC-V Deluxe has one IDE port on the Southbridge, and two IDE ports on the 8212F. Personally, I would place both DVD burners on the Southbridge interface, as that is likely to be the most seamless way of using them. Less hassle if the DVD burners ever need a firmware update and so on. Booting from them, should also be easier on the Southbridge. (I'd feel more comfortable putting IDE hard drives on the 8212F.) The BIOS defaults ("Standard IDE", "Enhanced Mode") should support installation without pressing F6. To do that, you'd want a WinXP SP1 or SP2 install disk, as they have a PCI address space native Microsoft driver in them. If your install disk is original WinXP, you can use a tool like Autostreamer, to make a new install CD that includes one of the two service packs. For the SATA drives, just plug them in. You don't need to use the adapter for the 20 pin power supply. The 20 pin should plug into the 24 pin connector. You can see the commonality of pins between the two of them, in these docs. The pictures here, are of the cable ends on the PSU. The pin 1 end is the same on both connectors. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (pg.29) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (pg.36) Paul |
#6
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
On Jul 13, 10:38 am, Paul wrote:
Ihatefishsauce wrote: Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. The P5GDC-V Deluxe has one IDE port on the Southbridge, and two IDE ports on the 8212F. Personally, I would place both DVD burners on the Southbridge interface, as that is likely to be the most seamless way of using them. Less hassle if the DVD burners ever need a firmware update and so on. Booting from them, should also be easier on the Southbridge. (I'd feel more comfortable putting IDE hard drives on the 8212F.) The BIOS defaults ("Standard IDE", "Enhanced Mode") should support installation without pressing F6. To do that, you'd want a WinXP SP1 or SP2 install disk, as they have a PCI address space native Microsoft driver in them. If your install disk is original WinXP, you can use a tool like Autostreamer, to make a new install CD that includes one of the two service packs. For the SATA drives, just plug them in. You don't need to use the adapter for the 20 pin power supply. The 20 pin should plug into the 24 pin connector. You can see the commonality of pins between the two of them, in these docs. The pictures here, are of the cable ends on the PSU. The pin 1 end is the same on both connectors. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (pg.29)http://www.formfactors.org/developer...2_2_public_br2... (pg.36) Thanks Paul....you seem to be one of the heavies here. I read around before joining. Thanks for the rescue. Seems straightforward enough. I am just incensed now that I spent $12.99 + shipping for the power supply converter cable. If you don't really need one......then why the h***K do they make one and market it as if you really do need one? Just to make some$$$$? thanks again! Paul |
#7
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Ihatefishsauce wrote:
Thanks Paul....you seem to be one of the heavies here. I read around before joining. Thanks for the rescue. Seems straightforward enough. I am just incensed now that I spent $12.99 + shipping for the power supply converter cable. If you don't really need one......then why the h***K do they make one and market it as if you really do need one? Just to make some$$$$? thanks again! That is a good question. The 20 pin to 24 pin adapter, moves the "burn point" to where the adapter meets the power supply. At that point, the current is still flowing through the one 12V pin on the 20 pin connector. In that sense, the adapter doesn't solve any problems. What it does do, is if a high current situation were to arise, the PSU connector would be damaged, the 20 pin end of the adapter would be damaged, but the motherboard would be saved. The single pin on the 20 pin connector, is rated at 6 amps. That 12V wire, is connected to any adapter slot that needs it, as well as the fan headers. In the current day, PCI Express x16 video cards, would be the primary load. The highest number I've seen measured, for the x16 slot, is 4.35A from 12V. The fan headers might have an average load of, say, 0.5A. The other slots, might have a connection to the 12V rail, but probably aren't using it. I would be most concerned, if a lot of add-in cards started showing up, which loaded down the 12V wire. Based on the previous paragraph, for most users, no matter what kind of single PCI Express video card they use, they should be safe with a 20 pin power connector. If the motherboard is an SLI or Crossfire config, and the user has two video cards, at that point it is time to say, no more 20 pin supply. At that point, it would be wise to invest in a 24 pin supply. Some motherboards have a 1x4 Molex on the motherboard. For SLI or Crossfile, that connector can help, and can delay the need for the 24 pin connector. The Molex is good for up to about 8 amps (depends on the gauge of wire used), meaning a 20 pin power connector, plus a 1x4 connected to the motherboard, gives room for up to 14 amps to flow. Getting back to the adapter again, another disadvantage of the adapter, has to do with the remote sense function on the power supply. You might notice (in those specs I quoted), that there is provision for two wires to be connected to one of the 3.3V pins on the PSU. The thinner of the two wires, is a sense wire. Its job, is to take a sample of the voltage, right at what is considered to be, the "load". When you use an adapter, the voltage drop in the adapter is no longer compensated by the remote sense function. That is because the thin sense wire, is not at the load any more, and is now "half way along the cable", The voltage error is small, but is another tiny issue with the use of an adapter. They make the adapters to fill a need :-) Customers want the adapters - companies make them. Sort of like hood ornaments for cars. Paul |
#8
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
On Jul 13, 10:38 am, Paul wrote:
Ihatefishsauce wrote: Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. The P5GDC-V Deluxe has one IDE port on the Southbridge, and two IDE ports on the 8212F. Personally, I would place both DVD burners on the Southbridge interface, as that is likely to be the most seamless way of using them. Less hassle if the DVD burners ever need a firmware update and so on. Booting from them, should also be easier on the Southbridge. (I'd feel more comfortable putting IDE hard drives on the 8212F.) The BIOS defaults ("Standard IDE", "Enhanced Mode") should support installation without pressing F6. To do that, you'd want a WinXP SP1 or SP2 install disk, as they have a PCI address space native Microsoft driver in them. If your install disk is original WinXP, you can use a tool like Autostreamer, to make a new install CD that includes one of the two service packs. For the SATA drives, just plug them in. You don't need to use the adapter for the 20 pin power supply. The 20 pin should plug into the 24 pin connector. You can see the commonality of pins between the two of them, in these docs. The pictures here, are of the cable ends on the PSU. The pin 1 end is the same on both connectors. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (pg.29)http://www.formfactors.org/developer...2_2_public_br2... (pg.36) Paul Well, I am almost at the point where I can power the pc up. However, there is just one more thing that I must do that I gotta admit is beginning to confuse me greatly. I have connectors on this motherboard for the following fans (from manual): 4-pin CPU, 3-pin PWR_FAN, 3-pin CHA_FAN 1, 3 -PIN CHA_FAN 2. I thought that connecting them would be a slam dunk. apparently not. I have connected just the CPU fan --that was the easy one! The pc case has room for a 120mm fan and 6 80mm fans. The real question is, which fan plugs into what above connectors? What is this PWR_FAN? from what I have read, it is for a connector coming from the power supply? The power supply doesn't have a connector like that (Ultra X-Connect 500W 20 pin - kinda old, but it should work). So, what fan plugs into what mother board connector? And for the remaining fans, just give them power from a Molex connnector? If so, how far can I split one Molex connector to power the remaining fans? They are just regular fans, not those RPM controllable ones (Enermax UC8-EB for all 80mm ones and a Scythe S- Flex SFF21F for the 120mm one (which is positioned in the back of the case next to the i/o strip as a "blow" fan. This fan hookup is totally confusing. Can someone please tell me in plain language how to hook them up to my P5GDC-V Deluxe? Now, for the final question. Once I am ready to throw the switch, should I enter the bios immediately and configure, configure, configure? I have the original Cd which says "P5 series intel 925/915 chipset series support cd rev 78.14" and I hope that it is not outdated since this motherboard sat in my garage about two years in the original box. When would I put the cd in? after the OS is installed? Would it be this order: 1. after build is complete, power on pc and enter bios 2. configure devices or make sure that they have been automatically configured 3. exit bios and flash to newest one (??) 4. install OS 5. Run as us Chipset support CD 78.14? HELP! |
#9
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
Ihatefishsauce wrote:
On Jul 13, 10:38 am, Paul wrote: Ihatefishsauce wrote: Hi. Just joined this group because I need some help. I have a P5GDC-V Deluxe (sat in garage for about two years until last week) I just got my order from Newegg: 2 WD Caviar SATA2 320GB drives 2 sony DVD burners 2 GB RAM Mitsumi floppy/integrated with media reader (SDC, etc.) Intel 560 3.4 Ghz P4 Ultra Xconnect 500watt power supply (waiting on the 20-24 pin power cable from them) here is the burning question, since SATA is a new thing to me: I want both drives to be separate (C, D) I want to put DVD burners (IDE) on separate IDE channels How exactly do I do this? What steps do I take first. Can someone explain how to do this up to and including loading the OS which will be.........XP Pro! Thanks to all the smarter than me people. The P5GDC-V Deluxe has one IDE port on the Southbridge, and two IDE ports on the 8212F. Personally, I would place both DVD burners on the Southbridge interface, as that is likely to be the most seamless way of using them. Less hassle if the DVD burners ever need a firmware update and so on. Booting from them, should also be easier on the Southbridge. (I'd feel more comfortable putting IDE hard drives on the 8212F.) The BIOS defaults ("Standard IDE", "Enhanced Mode") should support installation without pressing F6. To do that, you'd want a WinXP SP1 or SP2 install disk, as they have a PCI address space native Microsoft driver in them. If your install disk is original WinXP, you can use a tool like Autostreamer, to make a new install CD that includes one of the two service packs. For the SATA drives, just plug them in. You don't need to use the adapter for the 20 pin power supply. The 20 pin should plug into the 24 pin connector. You can see the commonality of pins between the two of them, in these docs. The pictures here, are of the cable ends on the PSU. The pin 1 end is the same on both connectors. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf Paul Well, I am almost at the point where I can power the pc up. However, there is just one more thing that I must do that I gotta admit is beginning to confuse me greatly. I have connectors on this motherboard for the following fans (from manual): 4-pin CPU, 3-pin PWR_FAN, 3-pin CHA_FAN 1, 3 -PIN CHA_FAN 2. I thought that connecting them would be a slam dunk. apparently not. I have connected just the CPU fan --that was the easy one! The pc case has room for a 120mm fan and 6 80mm fans. The real question is, which fan plugs into what above connectors? What is this PWR_FAN? from what I have read, it is for a connector coming from the power supply? The power supply doesn't have a connector like that (Ultra X-Connect 500W 20 pin - kinda old, but it should work). So, what fan plugs into what mother board connector? And for the remaining fans, just give them power from a Molex connnector? If so, how far can I split one Molex connector to power the remaining fans? They are just regular fans, not those RPM controllable ones (Enermax UC8-EB for all 80mm ones and a Scythe S- Flex SFF21F for the 120mm one (which is positioned in the back of the case next to the i/o strip as a "blow" fan. This fan hookup is totally confusing. Can someone please tell me in plain language how to hook them up to my P5GDC-V Deluxe? Now, for the final question. Once I am ready to throw the switch, should I enter the bios immediately and configure, configure, configure? I have the original Cd which says "P5 series intel 925/915 chipset series support cd rev 78.14" and I hope that it is not outdated since this motherboard sat in my garage about two years in the original box. When would I put the cd in? after the OS is installed? Would it be this order: 1. after build is complete, power on pc and enter bios 2. configure devices or make sure that they have been automatically configured 3. exit bios and flash to newest one (??) 4. install OS 5. Run as us Chipset support CD 78.14? HELP! Each of the fan headers, appears to have a full set of three pins. Which means, if all you want is to run cooling fans, you have three 3 pin headers to use with three fans. A PWR_FAN header is typically used for a PWR_FAN connector from a power supply, for RPM monitoring. If you don't have one of those, the header can still be used to power an ordinary fan. As far as how many fans, the basic idea is to establish a front to back airflow. The exhaust fan on the back helps do that for you. When you have a large number of fans, it becomes difficult to figure out where the air is going, and what is really getting cooled. When a case has many, many fans on it, it can be hard to figure out what to do with them all. (On one of my cases, I used more than the minimum number of fans, and air was actually blowing backwards through the weakest fan. Balancing multiple fans is loads of fun.) If a fan is not doing anything, its presence is still an issue. The hole the fan leaves, still affects the airflow. For example, if just the exhaust fan on the back is hooked up, all the other fan holes become intake vents. And that may not put the airflow where you want it. On one of my cases, with a side fan, I removed the fan and covered the hole with sheet aluminum (auto body repair, lightweight). The air leak it causes, would reduce the cooling my hard drive is getting. So you have to plan a bit, whether to use the fan, or remove the fan and cover the hole. For a well cooled case, if room temp is 25C, the case internal temp should be no more than about 32C to 35C. If it rises much higher, that makes it harder for the CPU cooler to do its job. And with stock Intel fans that sense the air temp, the Intel fan will speed up and become noisy, if the internal case air is too hot. Many BIOS items have nice default values. You may have to adjust something on the RAM, to get error free operation. If the computer is stable in the BIOS, your next step is running a standalone memory tester like memtest86+ (memtest.org). In two complete passes, zero errors would be the desired objective. If the computer is not error free at this point, there is no point installing an OS, as the OS files could be corrupted as they are stored on the hard drive. Memtest86+ can boot from a floppy, or you can burn a CD with the program - the program is self-booting. You may want to disable any peripheral chips you aren't using. Disabling storage controllers, can help reduce the boot time (important when doing a lot of reboots when first setting up the computer). Other than that, I recommend reading the manual and its BIOS section, item by item, and deciding for yourself, what needs to be adjusted. The driver CD is for after the OS install. For the OS to install, if the storage devices are connected to the Southbridge, there might not be any driver needed, to get them recognized. WinXP SP1 would be the minimum version I would recommend for that. SP1 will help with SATA drives, and with drives over 137GB. (You can slipstream a release CD, to incorporate SP1 and prepare a new installer CD. I think I used AutoStreamer for the job a couple years ago.) The OS runs graphics in a default VESA mode, a Microsoft driver is used for the hard disk, and the other peripherals at that point, might not have any driver loaded. When you install the driver CD at that point, you get the opportunity to install things like NIC drivers, which might not be on the OS CD. Also, the chipset drivers (Northbridge and Southbridge), help with getting Device Manager to recognize stuff properly. It is not possible to install the driver CD, before the OS is there, so the order of install is fixed in that sense. As for flashing the BIOS, you check the CPUSupport web page, the type of your processor, and the required BIOS release. That tells you the minimum BIOS version required. The label placed on the top of the BIOS chip, should say what version was flashed at the factory. Check the Asus download page, for the change log, as to what was fixed in each BIOS. http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusuppor...Language=en-us http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusuppor...=en-us&cache=1 These are the release notes for 1011. Since it updates the BIOS internal driver for the ITE8212, that might be a good reason to do a flash upgrade. The "option ROM" provides INT 0x13 support, giving the ability to do basic read/write at the BIOS level. That is how the OS starts to boot, even though the OS drivers aren't loaded yet. So if your plan is to use the IT8212 for booting, I'd flash upgrade before doing anything else. If you can survive with just the Southbridge, the need to flash upgrade might not be as urgent. [ 1011 ] ---------------------- 1- Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx 2- Update ITE8212 option ROM 3- Modify CPU fan low limlt speed to 800 RPM 4- Fix that the Boot time is too long If there is no CD in CD-ROM while connected to ITE controller In terms of interfaces, you have one IDE and four SATA on the Southbridge. Those are the interfaces I'd use first. If I had a single IDE CDROM and an IDE hard drive, I'd put them on the same cable and connect them to the Southbridge port. Then, I wouldn't need to press F6 during the install and install a driver for them. Once the Southbridge is full, you can move to the IT8212, but would need a driver installed by F6, if you plan on actually booting a hard drive while it is connected to the IT8212. If the drives connected to the IT8212 are only for holding data, then a driver can be installed, after the boot disk on the Southbridge has booted. HTH, Paul |
#10
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P5GDC-V Deluxe build
I would like to know now how to pin out my audio from the case as
follows: Cable from case: Black = Ground Red 2 = Mic in yellow 2 = mic-power white 2 = R-ret yellow 1 = R-out white 1 = L-out red 1 = L-ret On the motherboard as follows: Azalia Compliant pin definition: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top pins, L to R: GND, | Presence#, | Sense1_RETUR, | (pin missing), | Sense2_RETUR ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom, L to R: Port1-L, | Port1-R, | Port2- R, | Sense_Send | Port2-L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- for the Legacy AC'97 Compliant pin definition: Top Pins, L to R: _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top pins, L to R: AGND | NC | NC | (pin missing), | NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom, L to R: MIC2 | | MIC PWR | Line Out- R, | NC | Line-Out-L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope my ascii diagarm doesn't get messed up when I post this. My question is which header do I use based on the above case audio cables and where do I plug what? Thanks again. |
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