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#1
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Win 10 home networking
I'm having an awful time trying to get my simple home network working
between all my computers, since the elimination of Workgroups in Win 10. Basically, I have three desktops, mine, my wife's, and one that's acts as a file server for backups. In additiona there are three portables of various ages, but all running either Win 10 home or pro. My desktop can see the files on any of the computers. My Thinkpad can see my desktops files, but not those on my wife's computer, or the file server that I want to use for backups. Is there any writeup somewhere that explains how to set these computers up so that each one can see the files on the other computers? |
#2
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Win 10 home networking
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
I'm having an awful time trying to get my simple home network working between all my computers, since the elimination of Workgroups in Win 10. Basically, I have three desktops, mine, my wife's, and one that's acts as a file server for backups. In additiona there are three portables of various ages, but all running either Win 10 home or pro. My desktop can see the files on any of the computers. My Thinkpad can see my desktops files, but not those on my wife's computer, or the file server that I want to use for backups. Is there any writeup somewhere that explains how to set these computers up so that each one can see the files on the other computers? Are multiple cascaded routers involved ? Some networking setups you can easily build at home, cause all the computers to be able to see the Internet, but some of the computers cannot communicate with the other computers. You are fooled by all your working web browsers, into thinking there is nothing wrong with your networking setup. ******* On each computer, you can use ipconfig and get the network address of each computer right now. Then, you can use "ping tests". 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.3 | | ---+--------+-------------+-- | | 192.168.1.4 In that example, node "2" could try ping 192.168.1.3 ping 192.168.1.4 and verify that the other computers are "reachable". Node "4" could try ping 192.168.1.2 ping 192.168.1.3 And so on. That's to verify they can actually see one another. There is also the topic of subnets and netmasks. But you have to start somewhere. Even being able to draw us a picture with some IP addresses doodled on it, is a start. Paul |
#3
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Win 10 home networking
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 23:32:33 -0400, Paul
wrote: Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: I'm having an awful time trying to get my simple home network working between all my computers, since the elimination of Workgroups in Win 10. Basically, I have three desktops, mine, my wife's, and one that's acts as a file server for backups. In additiona there are three portables of various ages, but all running either Win 10 home or pro. My desktop can see the files on any of the computers. My Thinkpad can see my desktops files, but not those on my wife's computer, or the file server that I want to use for backups. Is there any writeup somewhere that explains how to set these computers up so that each one can see the files on the other computers? Are multiple cascaded routers involved ? Some networking setups you can easily build at home, cause all the computers to be able to see the Internet, but some of the computers cannot communicate with the other computers. You are fooled by all your working web browsers, into thinking there is nothing wrong with your networking setup. ******* On each computer, you can use ipconfig and get the network address of each computer right now. Then, you can use "ping tests". 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.3 | | ---+--------+-------------+-- | | 192.168.1.4 In that example, node "2" could try ping 192.168.1.3 ping 192.168.1.4 and verify that the other computers are "reachable". Node "4" could try ping 192.168.1.2 ping 192.168.1.3 And so on. That's to verify they can actually see one another. There is also the topic of subnets and netmasks. But you have to start somewhere. Even being able to draw us a picture with some IP addresses doodled on it, is a start. Paul Thanks for the comments. I didn't give enough information, I realize, cause I was looking for a link to some write-up to read over. However, I do have some details that I didn't mention. 1. In some cases, I can "see" the other computer(s) from a computer (say from my Thinkpad) but when trying to access drives on the remote, I get a message I don't have permission to see the files. File sharing for everyone is set up on the remote, and indeed I can see all the drives and files and access them from my desktop computer. 2. The network is "new" in the sense that it's now using AT&T Fixed Wireless to access the internet, and using their router. The router is a multipurpose device that looks like they use for fixed wireless and for other services like DSL. All the devices in my home are connected either to the router directly via cat 5A or to a 8 port switch, or wirelessly via WiFi. I uploaded a printout (PDF file)of all the connections to my OneDrive. Link to it is: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtjEABxG0hlciiFCJVMuDI9vuVgX If you look at the list, there are a couple of items that I can't really identify. The one labeled Unknown might be my Ubiquity access point, which is wired from the 8-port switch. Also I noted that some of the devices which actually connect via a WiFi adapter, like my wife's computer which is temporarily relocated and can't be connected via ethernet cable, is listed as connected via ethernet. I think this is because it connects via the Ubiquity AP, which is connected to the router via cable. Thanks for your comments. |
#4
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Win 10 home networking
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 23:32:33 -0400, Paul wrote: Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: I'm having an awful time trying to get my simple home network working between all my computers, since the elimination of Workgroups in Win 10. Basically, I have three desktops, mine, my wife's, and one that's acts as a file server for backups. In additiona there are three portables of various ages, but all running either Win 10 home or pro. My desktop can see the files on any of the computers. My Thinkpad can see my desktops files, but not those on my wife's computer, or the file server that I want to use for backups. Is there any writeup somewhere that explains how to set these computers up so that each one can see the files on the other computers? Are multiple cascaded routers involved ? Some networking setups you can easily build at home, cause all the computers to be able to see the Internet, but some of the computers cannot communicate with the other computers. You are fooled by all your working web browsers, into thinking there is nothing wrong with your networking setup. ******* On each computer, you can use ipconfig and get the network address of each computer right now. Then, you can use "ping tests". 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.3 | | ---+--------+-------------+-- | | 192.168.1.4 In that example, node "2" could try ping 192.168.1.3 ping 192.168.1.4 and verify that the other computers are "reachable". Node "4" could try ping 192.168.1.2 ping 192.168.1.3 And so on. That's to verify they can actually see one another. There is also the topic of subnets and netmasks. But you have to start somewhere. Even being able to draw us a picture with some IP addresses doodled on it, is a start. Paul Thanks for the comments. I didn't give enough information, I realize, cause I was looking for a link to some write-up to read over. However, I do have some details that I didn't mention. 1. In some cases, I can "see" the other computer(s) from a computer (say from my Thinkpad) but when trying to access drives on the remote, I get a message I don't have permission to see the files. File sharing for everyone is set up on the remote, and indeed I can see all the drives and files and access them from my desktop computer. 2. The network is "new" in the sense that it's now using AT&T Fixed Wireless to access the internet, and using their router. The router is a multipurpose device that looks like they use for fixed wireless and for other services like DSL. All the devices in my home are connected either to the router directly via cat 5A or to a 8 port switch, or wirelessly via WiFi. I uploaded a printout (PDF file)of all the connections to my OneDrive. Link to it is: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtjEABxG0hlciiFCJVMuDI9vuVgX If you look at the list, there are a couple of items that I can't really identify. The one labeled Unknown might be my Ubiquity access point, which is wired from the 8-port switch. Also I noted that some of the devices which actually connect via a WiFi adapter, like my wife's computer which is temporarily relocated and can't be connected via ethernet cable, is listed as connected via ethernet. I think this is because it connects via the Ubiquity AP, which is connected to the router via cable. Thanks for your comments. I converted your PDF into some hen-scrawl of my own. GB_Desktop 192.168.1.65 * sees all SuperJoey-MoCA 192.168.1.67 Hopper2-br 192.168.1.68 ? 192.168.1.66 Fox (serve) 192.168.1.79 * (running IPV6) fe80::7d7b:d30b:2df4:c95e ? 192.168.1.69 Android 192.168.1.70 Wife 192.168.1.72 * fe80::5da5:b0c6:513c:ccfe X SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.64 X Matebook 192.168.1.73 Portable SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.75 fe80::ae5f:3eff:fe69:a993 SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.74 fe80::ae5f:3eff:fe9f:a752 X LAPTOP Thinkpad 192.168.1.76 Wifi Portable Can't see IPV6 Wife or IPV6 Fox Galaxy-Tab-S2 192.168.1.77 fe80::b674:43ff:fe30:809d X ROKU 192.168.1.78 Wifi viziocastdisplay192.168.1.80 fe80::a68d:3bff:fe34:14f6 1 Portable missing from list ??? ******* IPV6 used to be a requirement of HomeGroups. HomeGroups are deprecated in 17134. Yet, a number of services used by HomeGroups are still present. Something with a name like "Function Discovery" or the like, might be one of them. Apparently, while IPV4 has NetBIOS (the workhorse), one of those seven services for HomeGroup is the IPV6 equivalent of a resource enumerator. But that doesn't really explain your symptoms, because your description suggests you're not having a problem "seeing" the device, merely a problem getting in. The standard advice for these situations is to do \\192.168.1.79\FamilyTree to get to a particular volume on Fox, instead of doing symbolic access as in \\Fox\FamilyTree So you can attempt to contact the server (i.e. one of your cases that does not work) and get the job done that way. As for fixing it properly, you'd research what the seven services are that HomeGroups used to use, and two of them (with perhaps Function in the name), might play some part in Discovery of the things via their IPV6 address. I would hope that the OS is not set up to prioritize one addressing scheme over the other, but such a thing happening is probably inevitable. It could be that the IPV6 machines lean on IPV6 first, and if their Function Discovery thingy is missing, then the \\Fox\FamilyTree remains broken. Maybe someone who has a handy list of the services to check, could post them for you. Plugging in some breadcrumbs from the above gets me... https://technet.microsoft.com/pt-pt/...(v=ws.10).aspx "NetBIOS over IPv6 is not supported. Therefore, NetBIOS name resolution techniques cannot be used to resolve names to IPv6 addresses." Neighbor discovery is necessary in IPV6, because you have 4 billion link local addresses available on your own LAN. And unlike a subnet with only 255 nodes, it's a little difficult to use a primitive brute force search to find the other machines. A more intelligent method is needed when a node wakes up. Now, this article is getting a bit closer, except it is doing the *negative* of what you want. It's disabling discovery. But at least it has some names you can check in services.msc. https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...ork-resources/ # Function Discovery Resource Publication # Function Discovery Provider host # SSDP Now, SSDP was a useful one back in Win7 days. It's sole purpose back then, was to draw that network map in the Network control center panel. It didn't seem to do anything else at the time. But still, it's something you can check to see if its running on the ThinkPad (which I believe is your flaky node). Paul |
#5
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Win 10 home networking
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
Thanks for your comments. One other thing to keep in mind, is Win10 occasionally asks for username/password, even though you've opened up the share to everyone. The username/password to use, must be on the serving device. If you're Charlie on your own machine, but only Bob account on the Fox server, then you want to log into the Fox server as Bob:Bobs_password. I think that's what I've been doing here. That isn't your problem either, because I think you're being flat-out denied all access. Paul |
#6
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Win 10 home networking
On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 22:04:50 -0400, Paul
wrote: snipped I converted your PDF into some hen-scrawl of my own. GB_Desktop 192.168.1.65 * sees all SuperJoey-MoCA 192.168.1.67 Hopper2-br 192.168.1.68 ? 192.168.1.66 Fox (serve) 192.168.1.79 * (running IPV6) fe80::7d7b:d30b:2df4:c95e ? 192.168.1.69 Android 192.168.1.70 Wife 192.168.1.72 * fe80::5da5:b0c6:513c:ccfe X SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.64 X Matebook 192.168.1.73 Portable Matebook can see all computers and files on them. SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.75 fe80::ae5f:3eff:fe69:a993 SAMSUNG-SM-G930A 192.168.1.74 fe80::ae5f:3eff:fe9f:a752 X LAPTOP Thinkpad 192.168.1.76 Wifi Portable Can't see IPV6 Wife or IPV6 Fox Correct, Thinkpad seems to be the only one that can't see everything. Yet thinkpad CAN see everything on GB. Galaxy-Tab-S2 192.168.1.77 fe80::b674:43ff:fe30:809d X ROKU 192.168.1.78 Wifi viziocastdisplay192.168.1.80 fe80::a68d:3bff:fe34:14f6 1 Portable missing from list ??? Yes, Samsung Series 7 was off when this was generated. Just checked, it is assigned 192.168.1.81 Samsung can see Thinkpad and access files on it, but thinkpad can't access files on Samsung. ******* IPV6 used to be a requirement of HomeGroups. HomeGroups are deprecated in 17134. Yet, a number of services used by HomeGroups are still present. Something with a name like "Function Discovery" or the like, might be one of them. Apparently, while IPV4 has NetBIOS (the workhorse), one of those seven services for HomeGroup is the IPV6 equivalent of a resource enumerator. But that doesn't really explain your symptoms, because your description suggests you're not having a problem "seeing" the device, merely a problem getting in. The standard advice for these situations is to do \\192.168.1.79\FamilyTree to get to a particular volume on Fox, instead of doing symbolic access as in \\Fox\FamilyTree So you can attempt to contact the server (i.e. one of your cases that does not work) and get the job done that way. Tried that. As before, I get to the computer, but cannot access any of the drives or files, even when addressing as you suggested. As for fixing it properly, you'd research what the seven services are that HomeGroups used to use, and two of them (with perhaps Function in the name), might play some part in Discovery of the things via their IPV6 address. I would hope that the OS is not set up to prioritize one addressing scheme over the other, but such a thing happening is probably inevitable. It could be that the IPV6 machines lean on IPV6 first, and if their Function Discovery thingy is missing, then the \\Fox\FamilyTree remains broken. Maybe someone who has a handy list of the services to check, could post them for you. Plugging in some breadcrumbs from the above gets me... https://technet.microsoft.com/pt-pt/...(v=ws.10).aspx "NetBIOS over IPv6 is not supported. Therefore, NetBIOS name resolution techniques cannot be used to resolve names to IPv6 addresses." Neighbor discovery is necessary in IPV6, because you have 4 billion link local addresses available on your own LAN. And unlike a subnet with only 255 nodes, it's a little difficult to use a primitive brute force search to find the other machines. A more intelligent method is needed when a node wakes up. Now, this article is getting a bit closer, except it is doing the *negative* of what you want. It's disabling discovery. But at least it has some names you can check in services.msc. https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...ork-resources/ # Function Discovery Resource Publication # Function Discovery Provider host # SSDP Now, SSDP was a useful one back in Win7 days. It's sole purpose back then, was to draw that network map in the Network control center panel. It didn't seem to do anything else at the time. But still, it's something you can check to see if its running on the ThinkPad (which I believe is your flaky node). Paul Yes, it's becoming clearer that the Thinkpad, also the most recent addition, is the problem. I can access the server or any other computer from any device except the Thinkpad. But the Thinkpad can ONLY access my desktop (GB) computer. In fact, since I have access to everyone on all the devices set, it can see everything on GB but nothing on any other device. This really puzzles me.... Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but this is really getting out of my limited understanding of networking. |
#7
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Win 10 home networking
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
Yes, it's becoming clearer that the Thinkpad, also the most recent addition, is the problem. I can access the server or any other computer from any device except the Thinkpad. But the Thinkpad can ONLY access my desktop (GB) computer. In fact, since I have access to everyone on all the devices set, it can see everything on GB but nothing on any other device. This really puzzles me.... Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but this is really getting out of my limited understanding of networking. When you make the connection, is it asking for username/password ? And then after that, you can't access anything on the volume ? Paul |
#8
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Win 10 home networking
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:05:08 -0400, Paul
wrote: Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: Yes, it's becoming clearer that the Thinkpad, also the most recent addition, is the problem. I can access the server or any other computer from any device except the Thinkpad. But the Thinkpad can ONLY access my desktop (GB) computer. In fact, since I have access to everyone on all the devices set, it can see everything on GB but nothing on any other device. This really puzzles me.... Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but this is really getting out of my limited understanding of networking. When you make the connection, is it asking for username/password ? And then after that, you can't access anything on the volume ? Paul From the Thinkpad, I ask to view files on wife's computer: \\JoAnn-pc Windows then displays the printer that's attached to JoAnn-pc and all the drive letters assigned, and also certain folders like Users. However if I try to actually look at the contents of any of the drives, for example i, I get the message "windows cannot access \\joann-pc\i You do not have permission fo access \\joann-pc\i. Contact your network administrator to request access. However, JoAnn-pc is set up for access by "everyone", and indeed I can view the files from other computers on the network, both connected by wireless and by cable. Another bit of information. If at the stage where the drive letters are displayed, I try to look at the folder Users, I can open that folder and look at all the files under the folder Public. And I just tried to copy a file to the folder Public and confirmed that I can do that. |
#9
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Win 10 home networking
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:56:03 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote: On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:05:08 -0400, Paul wrote: Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: Yes, it's becoming clearer that the Thinkpad, also the most recent addition, is the problem. I can access the server or any other computer from any device except the Thinkpad. But the Thinkpad can ONLY access my desktop (GB) computer. In fact, since I have access to everyone on all the devices set, it can see everything on GB but nothing on any other device. This really puzzles me.... Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but this is really getting out of my limited understanding of networking. When you make the connection, is it asking for username/password ? And then after that, you can't access anything on the volume ? Paul From the Thinkpad, I ask to view files on wife's computer: \\JoAnn-pc Windows then displays the printer that's attached to JoAnn-pc and all the drive letters assigned, and also certain folders like Users. However if I try to actually look at the contents of any of the drives, for example i, I get the message "windows cannot access \\joann-pc\i You do not have permission fo access \\joann-pc\i. Contact your network administrator to request access. However, JoAnn-pc is set up for access by "everyone", and indeed I can view the files from other computers on the network, both connected by wireless and by cable. Another bit of information. If at the stage where the drive letters are displayed, I try to look at the folder Users, I can open that folder and look at all the files under the folder Public. And I just tried to copy a file to the folder Public and confirmed that I can do that. And no, in this case, I'm not asked for user name and password. |
#10
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Win 10 home networking
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:05:08 -0400, Paul wrote: Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: Yes, it's becoming clearer that the Thinkpad, also the most recent addition, is the problem. I can access the server or any other computer from any device except the Thinkpad. But the Thinkpad can ONLY access my desktop (GB) computer. In fact, since I have access to everyone on all the devices set, it can see everything on GB but nothing on any other device. This really puzzles me.... Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but this is really getting out of my limited understanding of networking. When you make the connection, is it asking for username/password ? And then after that, you can't access anything on the volume ? Paul From the Thinkpad, I ask to view files on wife's computer: \\JoAnn-pc Windows then displays the printer that's attached to JoAnn-pc and all the drive letters assigned, and also certain folders like Users. However if I try to actually look at the contents of any of the drives, for example i, I get the message "windows cannot access \\joann-pc\i You do not have permission fo access \\joann-pc\i. Contact your network administrator to request access. However, JoAnn-pc is set up for access by "everyone", and indeed I can view the files from other computers on the network, both connected by wireless and by cable. Another bit of information. If at the stage where the drive letters are displayed, I try to look at the folder Users, I can open that folder and look at all the files under the folder Public. And I just tried to copy a file to the folder Public and confirmed that I can do that. File sharing has more controls than the StarShipEnterprise. In this example, is a tick box for "Use user accounts and passwords to connect to other computers" https://i.stack.imgur.com/Htjxu.png At the other end, the JoAnn-pc, does the JoAnn account use a password ? Is it an empty password ? Perhaps, if the client machine trying to contact the JoAnn-pc server is Windows 10, it will get into a tizzy about "security" and insist on a password. There are enough tick boxes in those stupid interfaces, and various "features" in the OSes, to keep you busy testing for weeks... ******* And the kooky answer of the week award goes to this thread, where a Win10 machine refuses to access a second machine, unless a *local* credential on the client machine is used. Versus the remote account username and password we would normally enter. Makes no sense at all. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...b-21b5ab2b3d02 ******* I've tried to debug some of these using Wireshark, but it doesn't have a detailed enough "dissector" to tell you exactly what is going on. There's a bitmap field for example, that it doesn't decode and that's the one you want info about. The sharing failure I was debugging was WinXP client and Win10 server, where the Win10 server sends back a "Need More Info" error message. Which could mean... just about anything. Paul |
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