AIW 2006 PCI Express

J. Clarke wrote:
mga wrote:


J. Clarke wrote:
mga wrote:


Barry Watzman wrote:
A USB capture device is a TOTALLY separate device. Any such device
will have nothing whatsoever to do with the AIW or the ATI software.

You note that you can record from the tuner; what happens if you try
to record the tape using RF inputs (e.g. using the VCR's channel 2 or
3 RF output)?


mga wrote:
Danny G. wrote:

If you are recording the VCR tuner output and then hit 'play'
for awile and then stop what happens?


I can view and record TV thru the VCR tuner fine. If I try to view
or record non-Macrovision tapes, I get the effects mentioned in a
previous message, they being different than if I try to view/record
Macrovision also mentioned before.

Do any of the USB 2.0 video capture devices work with the AIW 2006,
or will I have the same problems?


I know the USB video capture device is another device, but it is not as
you call it "totally separate"; they interact with the video card,
otherwise why would the video devices made by some manufacturers
(Pinnacle Dazzle Video Creator Platinum for example) have minimum
requirement for the video card (see link below).

Because they also have software for playback.


http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Pinna...oductDetail.do

If I view/record the VCR's output coming out thru the VCR's RF output,
I still have the same issue. That would not be a solution anyway since
I am trying to capture through the S-Video input.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Do you know anthing about the quality of capture from these USB
devices?
Do you know if any of them capture in AVI format?

If you are looking to capture from a VCR and actually care about quality,
then get a DV camcorder with analog pass-through and capture via the
Firewire port. Canopus makes some capture devices that take an analog
input and give you a Firewire output with excellent quality, but the least
expensive of them doesn't work demonstrably better than a camcorder and
isn't any cheaper. The Canopus ADVC100 IIRC ignored Macrovision, the newer
ADVC110 however recognizes it. Not sure whether current-production
camcorders recognize it.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Which specific camcorders are you talking about?; the only ones I see
that have analog input and computer output are $600 or more at Circuit
City.

Some USB capture devices are good, some are bad, some capture in AVI,
some capture in compressed formats (MPEG2, most commonly).

The BEST capture device, BY FAR, is a Digital Camcorder with
"pass-through" conversion. Nothing else is even close, really. This
feature was found on all but a very few (of the lowest-end) Sony
Digital-8 camcorders. I'm not certain as to it's availability on other
brands or mini-DV models, but I think that some other formats/brands do
have it, although not as commonly (the feature was present in Digital-8
models to allow them to playback analog Hi-8 and 8mm tapes ....
"pass-through" conversion was almost an accident, but it was a truly
wonderful accident).

Also, if quality really counts, find a JVC Super-VHS VCR with
"Digi-Pure" technology (most of the HR-S7000U through HR-S9911U models
have this). It's digital time base correction and noise reduction, and
it gives spectacularly good rendition of VHS recordings. The models in
the 9000 series are the best ones, they have a large 4MB frame buffer
and more advanced circuitry. You can find these on E-Bay at reasonable
prices (sometimes under $100 for the low-end models to about $250 for
the top of the line late 9000-series models).


mga wrote:


Do you know anthing about the quality of capture from these USB
devices?
Do you know if any of them capture in AVI format?

If you are willing to buy a digital camcorder as a video capture device,
look for a used Sony Digital-8 camcorder on E-Bay. Most, BUT NOT ALL,
of these have this feature. The model numbers are DCR-TRVnm0, where n
and m are numbers.

"n" is the "grade" within a product generation, e.g. a DCR-TRV330 is one
model up from a DCR-TRV230. Most of the "grade 2" models, and some
grade "3's", do not have this feature.

"m" is the "product generation", e.g. a DCR-TRV350 is "two generations"
later than a DCR-TRV330. [I think that the current, and probably last
generation is "8" [the Digital-8 format is dying, although personally I
like it very much].

Sony gave me this list of Digital-8 models which they say do have
pass-through digital conversion:

DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV530
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV350
DCR-TRV460
DCR-TRV380
DCR-TRV480

But I suggest that you verify this prior to purchase. Some of these can
be found used on E-Bay at good prices ($100 to $150 range).


mga wrote:



Which specific camcorders are you talking about?; the only ones I see
that have analog input and computer output are $600 or more at Circuit
City.

Barry Watzman wrote:
Some USB capture devices are good, some are bad, some capture in AVI,
some capture in compressed formats (MPEG2, most commonly).

The BEST capture device, BY FAR, is a Digital Camcorder with
"pass-through" conversion. Nothing else is even close, really. This
feature was found on all but a very few (of the lowest-end) Sony
Digital-8 camcorders. I'm not certain as to it's availability on other
brands or mini-DV models, but I think that some other formats/brands do
have it, although not as commonly (the feature was present in Digital-8
models to allow them to playback analog Hi-8 and 8mm tapes ....
"pass-through" conversion was almost an accident, but it was a truly
wonderful accident).

Also, if quality really counts, find a JVC Super-VHS VCR with
"Digi-Pure" technology (most of the HR-S7000U through HR-S9911U models
have this). It's digital time base correction and noise reduction, and
it gives spectacularly good rendition of VHS recordings. The models in
the 9000 series are the best ones, they have a large 4MB frame buffer
and more advanced circuitry. You can find these on E-Bay at reasonable
prices (sometimes under $100 for the low-end models to about $250 for
the top of the line late 9000-series models).


mga wrote:


Do you know anthing about the quality of capture from these USB
devices?
Do you know if any of them capture in AVI format?


Do you have any experience with the JVC super-VHS mentioned? I have 2
of the S3800 models.

Which of the USB capture devices are good, preferably talking from
first hand experience?

Do you have any experience with the Canopus devices (model 55 or 100)?
Are they better than using a camcorder with pass-through?

Yes, I have an HR-S9800U that I bought on E-Bay for this purpose, and it
is wonderful. I have some of the lower end products as well. But the
high-end models (9500U to 9911U) are noticeably better than the lower
end models.

I don't have first-hand experience with any of the stand-alone USB
capture devices.

mga wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:

Some USB capture devices are good, some are bad, some capture in AVI,
some capture in compressed formats (MPEG2, most commonly).

The BEST capture device, BY FAR, is a Digital Camcorder with
"pass-through" conversion. Nothing else is even close, really. This
feature was found on all but a very few (of the lowest-end) Sony
Digital-8 camcorders. I'm not certain as to it's availability on other
brands or mini-DV models, but I think that some other formats/brands do
have it, although not as commonly (the feature was present in Digital-8
models to allow them to playback analog Hi-8 and 8mm tapes ....
"pass-through" conversion was almost an accident, but it was a truly
wonderful accident).

Also, if quality really counts, find a JVC Super-VHS VCR with
"Digi-Pure" technology (most of the HR-S7000U through HR-S9911U models
have this). It's digital time base correction and noise reduction, and
it gives spectacularly good rendition of VHS recordings. The models in
the 9000 series are the best ones, they have a large 4MB frame buffer
and more advanced circuitry. You can find these on E-Bay at reasonable
prices (sometimes under $100 for the low-end models to about $250 for
the top of the line late 9000-series models).


mga wrote:


Do you know anthing about the quality of capture from these USB
devices?
Do you know if any of them capture in AVI format?



Do you have any experience with the JVC super-VHS mentioned? I have 2
of the S3800 models.

Which of the USB capture devices are good, preferably talking from
first hand experience?

Do you have any experience with the Canopus devices (model 55 or 100)?
Are they better than using a camcorder with pass-through?

No, I use the JVC VCR with a Sony DCR-TRV530 Digital-8 Camcorder to do
the conversion and capture.

I've owned almost every ATI AIW card since the first Rage-base cards a
decade ago, probably about 3 dozen cards in multiple systems over a
decade. I bought an AIW 2006 PCIx for the Conroe PC that I'm going to
build (I got a deal on it, $112 new retail); this system (my current
system) has an AIW 8500 in it. The AIW 2006 has thus not yet ever been
used.

But I would never use an ATI AIW card for serious recording (anything,
tuner or video), ATI's video quality really isn't that good, I just like
the convenience of having the tuner in the video card and the quality is
acceptable for watching TV while I'm working, which is what I use it
for. The media center PC in the family room has a Hauppauge tuner card
(two, in fact, PVR-150MCE) in it. There is no comparision in the video
quality. ATI's video quality is far inferior, not even in the same
league as the Hauppauge cards.


mga wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:

Yes, I have an HR-S9800U that I bought on E-Bay for this purpose, and it
is wonderful.


Are you using it in conjunction with the wonderfull AIW 2006 PCI
Express card? If not, which one?

Barry Watzman wrote:
If you are willing to buy a digital camcorder as a video capture device,
look for a used Sony Digital-8 camcorder on E-Bay. Most, BUT NOT ALL,
of these have this feature. The model numbers are DCR-TRVnm0, where n
and m are numbers.

"n" is the "grade" within a product generation, e.g. a DCR-TRV330 is one
model up from a DCR-TRV230. Most of the "grade 2" models, and some
grade "3's", do not have this feature.

"m" is the "product generation", e.g. a DCR-TRV350 is "two generations"
later than a DCR-TRV330. [I think that the current, and probably last
generation is "8" [the Digital-8 format is dying, although personally I
like it very much].

Sony gave me this list of Digital-8 models which they say do have
pass-through digital conversion:

DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV530
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV350
DCR-TRV460
DCR-TRV380
DCR-TRV480

But I suggest that you verify this prior to purchase. Some of these can
be found used on E-Bay at good prices ($100 to $150 range).


mga wrote:



Which specific camcorders are you talking about?; the only ones I see
that have analog input and computer output are $600 or more at Circuit
City.


Thank you for the info.

Barry Watzman wrote:
No, I use the JVC VCR with a Sony DCR-TRV530 Digital-8 Camcorder to do
the conversion and capture.

I've owned almost every ATI AIW card since the first Rage-base cards a
decade ago, probably about 3 dozen cards in multiple systems over a
decade. I bought an AIW 2006 PCIx for the Conroe PC that I'm going to
build (I got a deal on it, $112 new retail); this system (my current
system) has an AIW 8500 in it. The AIW 2006 has thus not yet ever been
used.

But I would never use an ATI AIW card for serious recording (anything,
tuner or video), ATI's video quality really isn't that good, I just like
the convenience of having the tuner in the video card and the quality is
acceptable for watching TV while I'm working, which is what I use it
for. The media center PC in the family room has a Hauppauge tuner card
(two, in fact, PVR-150MCE) in it. There is no comparision in the video
quality. ATI's video quality is far inferior, not even in the same
league as the Hauppauge cards.


mga wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:

Yes, I have an HR-S9800U that I bought on E-Bay for this purpose, and it
is wonderful.


Are you using it in conjunction with the wonderfull AIW 2006 PCI
Express card? If not, which one?


You are starting to confuse me; If the quality in the PVR-150MCE is
better than the AIW cards, and they are cheaper ($65 at Amazon vs $129
I paid for the AIW), then why do you have the AIW in your work computer
and not the PVR-150MCE.

Not giving you a hard time, I just want to know as much as posible
before buying more stuff.

The AIW card is a video card and a tuner card "All-in-One" (catchy,
right? Might be the basis of a good product name).

The Hauppauge card is a tuner card only (you need a separate video card).


mga wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:

No, I use the JVC VCR with a Sony DCR-TRV530 Digital-8 Camcorder to do
the conversion and capture.

I've owned almost every ATI AIW card since the first Rage-base cards a
decade ago, probably about 3 dozen cards in multiple systems over a
decade. I bought an AIW 2006 PCIx for the Conroe PC that I'm going to
build (I got a deal on it, $112 new retail); this system (my current
system) has an AIW 8500 in it. The AIW 2006 has thus not yet ever been
used.

But I would never use an ATI AIW card for serious recording (anything,
tuner or video), ATI's video quality really isn't that good, I just like
the convenience of having the tuner in the video card and the quality is
acceptable for watching TV while I'm working, which is what I use it
for. The media center PC in the family room has a Hauppauge tuner card
(two, in fact, PVR-150MCE) in it. There is no comparision in the video
quality. ATI's video quality is far inferior, not even in the same
league as the Hauppauge cards.


mga wrote:


Barry Watzman wrote:


Yes, I have an HR-S9800U that I bought on E-Bay for this purpose, and it
is wonderful.


Are you using it in conjunction with the wonderfull AIW 2006 PCI
Express card? If not, which one?



You are starting to confuse me; If the quality in the PVR-150MCE is
better than the AIW cards, and they are cheaper ($65 at Amazon vs $129
I paid for the AIW), then why do you have the AIW in your work computer
and not the PVR-150MCE.

Not giving you a hard time, I just want to know as much as posible
before buying more stuff.

Barry Watzman wrote:
The AIW card is a video card and a tuner card "All-in-One" (catchy,
right? Might be the basis of a good product name).

The Hauppauge card is a tuner card only (you need a separate video card).


mga wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:

No, I use the JVC VCR with a Sony DCR-TRV530 Digital-8 Camcorder to do
the conversion and capture.

I've owned almost every ATI AIW card since the first Rage-base cards a
decade ago, probably about 3 dozen cards in multiple systems over a
decade. I bought an AIW 2006 PCIx for the Conroe PC that I'm going to
build (I got a deal on it, $112 new retail); this system (my current
system) has an AIW 8500 in it. The AIW 2006 has thus not yet ever been
used.

But I would never use an ATI AIW card for serious recording (anything,
tuner or video), ATI's video quality really isn't that good, I just like
the convenience of having the tuner in the video card and the quality is
acceptable for watching TV while I'm working, which is what I use it
for. The media center PC in the family room has a Hauppauge tuner card
(two, in fact, PVR-150MCE) in it. There is no comparision in the video
quality. ATI's video quality is far inferior, not even in the same
league as the Hauppauge cards.


mga wrote:


Barry Watzman wrote:


Yes, I have an HR-S9800U that I bought on E-Bay for this purpose, and it
is wonderful.


Are you using it in conjunction with the wonderfull AIW 2006 PCI
Express card? If not, which one?



You are starting to confuse me; If the quality in the PVR-150MCE is
better than the AIW cards, and they are cheaper ($65 at Amazon vs $129
I paid for the AIW), then why do you have the AIW in your work computer
and not the PVR-150MCE.

Not giving you a hard time, I just want to know as much as posible
before buying more stuff.


So you are using another video card in conjunction with the Hauppauge?
That's what I thought before I wrote the last message but I am trying
to fill in all the blanks.

How would you compare the recording quality of the Hauppauge 150
against going with the VCR-Camcorder-Computer method, discounting for
the differences in VCR's (my 3800 against your 9800)? Or to cut the
question into pieces:

1) How would you compare the recording quality of the Hauppauge 150
using a JVC 9800 against going with the JVC9800 VCR-Camcorder-Computer
method?

2) How would you compare the recording quality of the JVC 3800 going
thru either the Hauppauge 150 or the VCR-Camcorder-Computer method
(whichever method you have used) or the same method using the JVC 9800?

You mentioned earlier that there is a noticeable difference between the
9800 and earlier models; can you be more specific?

Much appreciated.