Ducky mechanical keyboards

On Sat, 11 May 2013 08:03:08 -0700 (PDT), Ting Hsu
wrote:


I love mechanical keyboards, and once you've typed on one, you'll
never go back - I have a Noppoo Choc Mini at home and a Leopold
Tenkeyless at work (and plan on getting work to upgrade me to a CM
QuickFire TK).

I've the same dimensions in a LOGITech K400 Mini, actually a 25%
smaller keypad than that Noppoo if discounting the LOGI's worthless
incorporated touchpad/mouse functionality. Glad, I suppose, I didn't
go smaller into a total one-palm keyboard setup sized for cell/smart
phone size territory. What I ended up with is a singular mouse, my
old IR LOGI mouse, beside the K400;- the touchpad can be used with
practice, such as a quick simple swipe to get the damn mouse icon out
of the way of scores, but anything more takes decided care to not
screwing up programs, lots more, than a dedicated mouse alone.

As you will go back if you can't get by without the RF functionality
(the LOGI is at an improved strength/range frequency from older RF
keyboards I've used). I have to be able to conveniently reach
parameters on a discrete unit for musical effects processing
arrangements (out through a corded USB from the parent's program
control interface), while holding a musical instrument for resuming
play.

At first it wasn't a Noppoo feel, safe to say, for more a matter of
discipline and focus over time for attaining workable solutions.

On Sat, 11 May 2013 02:19:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

On Fri, 10 May 2013 21:38:53 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

I wore out mine, a Northgate. Did replace it, though. Northgate was
bought out, allied to FOCUS, so got one of those. Pretty much the
same thing. Next might be a gaming keyboard, or if that's what they
call them. Dunno. Maybe this FOCUS is supposed to last forever??

I never knew of the focus. I don't think of mine as a gaming
keyboard, just a very good keyboard.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Sat, 11 May 2013 02:19:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

The matrix scanner already has a solution for bounce. it has a
debounce built into the scanning method. On my home-made keyboard,
the key closure must be present for three consecutive scanning
cycles, to be detected as a closure.

Paul

Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Sat, 11 May 2013 02:19:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

Maybe you're referring to this one ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling_spring

If you look at the patent application diagram, it shows what looks
like an SPDT. Which would be idea for usage with an RS latch.
I seem to remember using something like that for a hobby project,
as a debouncer. Only problem with using that concept in a
keyboard, is the complexity (pin count) of the electronics
needed to interface to it. Like, 110 keys times 2 pins,
or about 220 input signals. If you did that with 279's, it
would take a pile of them (110/4 = 28). The keyboard encoder
ends up being either a significantly large single chip,
or a board full of "jelly beans".

http://www.futurlec.com/Datasheet/74ls/74LS279.pdf

Such a circuit, helps debounce. There's no "rattling" on
Q or Qbar, just a nice clean digital signal. But it takes
an SPDT. Or two regular pushbuttons, if you don't have an
SPDT handy.

(Debounced digital control, for sensitive circuits)

http://what-when-how.com/wp-content/...877_thumb2.png

The debounce on a matrix encoder, is definitely a cheaper
way to do it. It's OK for a single switch to bounce, as long
as the bounce interval is relatively short.

Paul

On Sat, 11 May 2013 14:55:28 -0700, Loren Pechtel
wrote:

On Fri, 10 May 2013 21:38:53 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

I wore out mine, a Northgate. Did replace it, though. Northgate was
bought out, allied to FOCUS, so got one of those. Pretty much the
same thing. Next might be a gaming keyboard, or if that's what they
call them. Dunno. Maybe this FOCUS is supposed to last forever??

I never knew of the focus. I don't think of mine as a gaming
keyboard, just a very good keyboard.

Neither did I. Wasn't very happy when my Omnikey Northgate gave it
up, but that was ages ago, when and during an interim FOCUS bought
DellNorthgate/Gateway and made the same keyboard (essentially - it
does have an added trackball built into the spacebar, pure BS gimmick
quality, nowhere near a Logitech marble mouse, but the key mechanism
are the same high quality). One tough, rugged keyboard. Now - hell,
you can't even hardly find a FOCUS FK 7200 / USB model listed on a
google search. It's a history piece, one long gone daddy.

What I meant is the only things worthy of that sort of quality
presently of course are gaming niche keyboards. Might even be better.
Only problem is, if anything, I'm more gentle with keyboards these
days. Overbuilt keyboards like the early IBM models, and these,
imaginably might dig one out of the ground 200 years from now and it
would still work.

On 2013-05-11 08:20:58 +1000, Robin Bignall said:

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

I am writing this on a Ducky. They are very nice keyboards to type on,
largely because of the feel of the mechanical switches. Mine cost
$129. I can't imagine paying $270 for one.

If your work involves a lot of typing then a mechanical keyboard is a
worthwhile investment, but $270 is over the top.

"Loren Pechtel" wrote in message
...

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

Same here. Keyboards are (like MS-DOS) a classic example of
"suboptimization" in which the best is known, but the cheaper second-
best drives it off the market. The AT keyboard layout (F-keys in two
columns at the left, balancing the numerical keypad on the right) is
the best for touch typists. The mechanical keyboard is better than
the "chiclet" keyboard for all typists (thus IBM/Lenovo prefers it
albeit Gateway does not) and the Northgate Omnikey was the
most popular mechanical keyboard. But vendors discarded the
AT layout and Northgate went bankrupt although a million users were
glad to pay $75-100 for a KB rather than $25: but the cheaper
rubbish not merely dominated the supply chain, it became 99 per
cent of the supply chain. The best mechanical AT keyboards,
the commonest type in 1990, thus became a rare "custom" product
available only at $200.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

En el artículo , Don Phillipson
escribió:

The AT keyboard layout (F-keys in two
columns at the left, balancing the numerical keypad on the right)

That's the XT layout, actually.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 11/05/2013 6:20 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.


Using IBM Model M keyboard here. Still available via Unicomp!

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

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