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#1
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
I am going to reinstall Windows 7 on my quad core i5--this time a legal version instead of a pirate version--and as I was going through the specs below I noticed some warning red flags. First, this Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz chip, I bought in early 2011, just as it was newly released, but the memory was from a year earlier, 2010, which is always a potential problem. Then I notice that the Topala Software Solutions freeware program information on the memory states "Warning! Wrong values reported by BIOS".
Then I notice this anomaly of sorts (speed of memory not the same as 'Supported Frequencies', off by a little--is this a mobo problem?): Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333) Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz I am assuming the CPU can adjust to some default slower frequency if the 'supported frequency' is not the same as the actual frequency? On occasion this system is somewhat unstable it seems, and I'm wondering if perhaps the BIOS is set up wrong (I had thought it was the pirated Windows). If I do a DBAN clean of the HD and reinstall Windows 7 Pro (legal version) should it detect and do whatever necessary to the memory automatically? Or should I go inside the BIOS and fiddle around (I hate that)? Or perhaps the mobo is all wrong? I will add therefore the motherboard and BIOS information below* Printout below. Thanks in advance. RL http://ark.intel.com/products/52208/...-GHz?q=i5-2400 As reported by Copyright © 2005-2011 Topala Software Solutions Number of Logical Processors 4 CPU Name Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz CPU Code Name Sandy Bridge Vendor GenuineIntel Number of Bits 64 Instruction Set MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, ET64, XD, VMX, SMX, EST Platform Name Socket 1155 LGA Revision D2 Technology 32 nm Original Clock 3100 MHz Original System Clock 100 MHz Original Multiplier 31.0 CPU Clock 3100 MHz System Clock 99.8 MHz Number of Cores 4 Turbo Boost Enabled Virtual Technology Enabled SLAT Supported Hyper Threading Disabled /////////// Memory Top Property Value Memory Summary Warning! Wrong values reported by BIOS Maximum Capacity 16384 MBytes Maximum Memory Module Size [unknown] Memory Slots 2 Error Correction None DRAM Frequency 665.2 MHz Memory Timings 9-9-9-24 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) Device Locator Manufacturer Kingston Part Number 99U5471-002.A00LF Serial Number 711E63ED Capacity 2048 MBytes Memory Type DDR3 (PC3-10700) Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333) Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz Memory Timings 6-6-6-17-23 at 457.1 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 7-7-7-20-27 at 533.3 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 8-8-8-22-30 at 609.5 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 9-9-9-25-34 at 685.7 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Manufacturing Date 2010, Week 37 EPP SPD Support No XMP SPD Support No Device Locator Manufacturer Kingston Part Number 99U5471-002.A00LF Serial Number 0F1FD952 Capacity 2048 MBytes Memory Type DDR3 (PC3-10700) Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333) Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz Memory Timings 6-6-6-17-23 at 457.1 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 7-7-7-20-27 at 533.3 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 8-8-8-22-30 at 609.5 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Memory Timings 9-9-9-25-34 at 685.7 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC) Manufacturing Date 2010, Week 37 EPP SPD Support No XMP SPD Support No // * MOBO AND BIOS INFO HERE-- Summary Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer INC. Model P8H67-M LE Version Rev X.0x Serial Number MF70B3G05500624 Bridge North Bridge Intel Sandy Bridge Revision 09 South Bridge Intel H67 Revision B3 CPU Name Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz Cpu Socket Socket 1155 LGA Max CPU Speed 3800 MHz Memory Maximum Capacity 16384 MBytes Maximum Memory Module Size [unknown] Memory Slots 2 System Slots ISA 0 PCI 4 AGP 0 VL-BUS 0 EISA 0 PCMCIA 0 ExpressCard 0 MCA 0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BIOS Top Property Value BIOS Properties BIOS Vendor American Megatrends Inc. Serial Number Syst-em- BIOS Version 0603 Firmware Version BIOS Date 02/11/2011 BIOS Size 4096 KB BIOS Starting Segment F000h DMI Version 2.6 Characteristics supports ISA No supports MCA No supports EISA No supports PCI Yes supports PC Card (PCMCIA) No supports Plug-and-Play No supports APM No upgradeable (Flash) BIOS Yes allows BIOS shadowing Yes supports VL-VESA No ESCD support is available No supports booting from CD-ROM Yes supports selectable boot Yes BIOS ROM is socketed Yes supports booting from PC Card (PCMCIA) No supports Enhanced Disk Drive specification Yes supports INT 13 for Japanese NEC 9800 1.2M floppy (3.5-inch, 1024-byte sectors, 360rpm) No supports INT 13 for Japanese Toshiba 1.2M floppy (3.5-inch, 360rpm) No supports INT 13 5.25-inch/360K floppy services No supports INT 13 5.25-inch/1.2M floppy services Yes supports INT 13 3.5-inch/720K floppy services Yes supports INT 13 3.5-inch/2.88M floppy services Yes supports INT 05 print-screen Yes supports INT 09 and 8042 keyboard services Yes supports INT 14 serial services Yes supports INT 17 printer services Yes supports INT 10 CGA/Mono video services No NEC PC-98 No supports ACPI Yes supports legacy USB Yes supports AGP No supports booting from I2O device No supports booting from LS-120 No supports booting from ATAPI ZIP drive No supports booting from IEEE 1394 device No Smart Battery supported No BIOS Boot Specification supported Yes Function key-initiated Network Service boot supported No Enable Targeted Content Distribution Yes ACPI APIC ALASKA A M I FACP ALASKA A M I HPET ALASKA A M I MCFG ALASKA A M I SSDT AMICPU PROC SLIC ACRSYS ACRPRDCT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#2
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 6:53:06 PM UTC+2, RayLopez99 wrote:
[] I will add that the system was built by a PC shop overseas in Asia, but that does not mean they knew what they were doing. A lot of times they just want to make a sale, and if the mobo does not support "Sandy Bridge" 100% then I'm screwed. I did not pay a lot for the system however, small consolation. But I think I'm OK, just that on occasion it seems to hang a bit--hopefully not hardware related though. RL |
#3
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
"RayLopez99" wrote in message
... I notice that the Topala Software Solutions freeware program information on the memory states "Warning! Wrong values reported by BIOS". Several conditions can cause this error report. The easiest remedied is a dying CMOS button battery. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
#4
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
On Dec 2, 12:00 pm, RayLopez99 wrote:
But I think I'm OK, just that on occasion it seems to hang a bit--hopefully not hardware related though. If I do a DBAN clean of the HD and reinstall Windows 7 Pro (legal version) should it detect and do whatever necessary to the memory automatically? http://bitsum.com/prolasso.php This is Process Lasso. I can see in the pro version it mentions a ProBalance act for restraining watchdog rules as various setup parameters for throttling a CPU. Still, might be worth a look at the free portable version (although the Pro is also portable), as at least it would seem likely to have a limited subset of the same parameters, rather than pull the routine in point of the whole or greater program intent. Evidently there's some hesitancy issues or that potential according to program classifications, between arbitration factors and a deterministic nature to each CPU core when prioritizing actualization upon a premise of best realized resources. I do see where it often throttles processes on a couple programs I use, in a sort of graphical interplay of net responsiveness, I believe would be a desirable effect, for memory and a couple other factors to offset. All pretty much a slight of hand, I suspect, in this hyperthreading scheme of things Intel provides at least on this processor, generally so identified by most as more than a core. Where I do have the physical cores, it's not so much resource intensive as only application by CPU intensiveness, hyperthreading simply wouldn't cut. A matter of when and how to bring a CPU environment down to its knees and hard. Have a look to a residual of indicatives if you can duplicate specific instances for other than memory dependencies. |
#5
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
RayLopez99 wrote:
I am going to reinstall Windows 7 on my quad core i5--this time a legal version instead of a pirate version--and as I was going through the specs below I noticed some warning red flags. First, this Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz chip, I bought in early 2011, just as it was newly released, but the memory was from a year earlier, 2010, which is always a potential problem. Then I notice that the Topala Software Solutions freeware program information on the memory states "Warning! Wrong values reported by BIOS". Then I notice this anomaly of sorts (speed of memory not the same as 'Supported Frequencies', off by a little--is this a mobo problem?): Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333) Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz I am assuming the CPU can adjust to some default slower frequency if the 'supported frequency' is not the same as the actual frequency? On occasion this system is somewhat unstable it seems, and I'm wondering if perhaps the BIOS is set up wrong (I had thought it was the pirated Windows). If I do a DBAN clean of the HD and reinstall Windows 7 Pro (legal version) should it detect and do whatever necessary to the memory automatically? Or should I go inside the BIOS and fiddle around (I hate that)? Or perhaps the mobo is all wrong? I will add therefore the motherboard and BIOS information below* Printout below. Thanks in advance. RL In the interest of saving a few electrons, I've snipped the listing. The memory chips themselves are flexible. Inside, the chips are "analog" and not "digital". Say the clock is 1GHz. The period of one clock cycle is 1 nanosecond. Say CAS is 13. If you wish to compute the timing, multiply the CAS value by the clock period. The answer is 13ns. Any time you then change the clock value, the clock period changes. To take advantage of the speedy 13ns figure that the memory chip is capable of supporting inside, you recompute the correct CAS and use it. That's what the BIOS does, when you use canonical clock values. Those are the values you can easily select from the menu. When a motherboard boots for the first time, the settings are typically all set to "Auto". OK, so what happens in that case ? The BSEL pins tell the clock chip something about the default clock to use. On more modern processors, where Intel has locked things a bit more, this is even simpler, in that the base clock is stuck at 100MHz. The multiplier information, is stored inside the processor some how, with a "low" and "high" value. So those things can be set by the BIOS pretty easily. The "low" value gets used, when the desktop is idle, and a lower power P-state is desired. The processor has a clock generator for the memory. The clock value can be modified by the ratio of simple integers. That's how the processor can make 533MHz, 667MHz, and the like, clock sources for memory. (It depends on the generation of processor, whether all the clocks are made by an external generator, or some of them are made by PLLs running inside the processor. The method used, has an effect on timing margins, which is why the method may change from one processor generation to another.) If you artificially push the BCLK off frequency, the memory clocks will have similarly scaled values. But if everything is nominal or auto, the clocks should be pretty close to the canonical ratios. The processor might have the peak nominal value, set up for DDR3-1333 memory. If you install DDR3-1600 memory, perhaps the Auto setting still results in the configuration running at DDR3-1333. If the memory is enthusiast type, supports XMP, the motherboard supports XMP, the memory subsystem might automatically be set up to whatever the correct value should be. Now, say I'm a cheap skate, and I buy DDR3-1066 memory. The BIOS knows it can't run that at DDR3-1333, so it automatically selects the correct ratio, and runs the RAM at DDR3-1066. The SPD chip on the DIMM, has a couple of values for the timing parameters, such that the CAS is also adjusted properly. So maybe it's CAS13 at DDR3-1333 and CAS10 at DDR3-1066, both yielding the same analog time constant inside the memory chip (so the memory stays happy). [Note - those values are to indicate that different values get used, without me worrying about whether the math is exactly right in this case.] So without really going into any details, the answer lies in the BIOS. Observing the current values in something like CPU-Z, then visiting the BIOS and seeing how it is set up. A Dell or HP or Acer motherboard, might not have any BIOS memory settings at all. Then, the BIOS gets to choose whatever it feels like, based on the SPD table from the DIMM. A home-builder motherboard from Asus or Gigabyte, would have an extensive BIOS setting page for the memory. You do not need to adjust all the settings. When you don't know what a setting does, set it to "Auto". You can use the canonical memory speed menu, to select 533 or 667 or whatever is appropriate for your DDR3-1066 or DDR3-1333 memory. For those values, perhaps the BIOS computed CAS value will be correct. When you do various overclocking tricks to a motherboard, then the arithmetic becomes a lot more complicated, and the user needs to visit an enthusiast web site, to learn more about properly setting it up. The reason that is necessary, is no BIOS really works "right". They all have their quirks, where they're not displaying the "real" frequencies involved. If you use CPUZ in Windows, you may learn about these quirks. So even without enthusiast info to go on, you can take baby steps yourself to discover the multiplier chain for yourself. The secret is to work in tiny steps, and then observe which parameters are changing, and which other parameters did *not* get adjusted properly. (For example, change BCLK from 100MHz to 101MHz, and see which other frequencies are affected.) But for simple canonical changes, like leaving all settings at Auto, except setting the memory clock to 533 or 667 for DDR3-1066 or DDR3-1333 memory, that should work pretty well without a lot of fuss. I don't really think the memory is clashing with the processor. It really depends on how crazy your shop techs are, as to how messed up it is. If they're the "super-overclocker" types, it could be a real mess. No shop really wants the customer coming back for free maintenance, when they screw it up. So there isn't a lot of incentive to twiddle every possible setting in there. Don't forget to test with memtest86+. The download is half way down the web page (scroll down). If you detect errors this way, then the memory settings would be badly screwed up. This test isn't that strenuous. Running a single complete pass (pass count equals one), is sufficient. Might take 20 minutes or so. So even if you're super-afraid of the BIOS, you can still help yourself knowledge-wise, without entering the BIOS. http://www.memtest.org/ Paul |
#6
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:51:32 PM UTC+2, Flasherly wrote:
Have a look to a residual of indicatives if you can duplicate specific instances for other than memory dependencies. Wow. Impressive. But apparently this is not a static 'one time only' setup which is what I want, but a 'dynamic, on the fly, different changes for different programs run' setup, more for overclockers and gamers than me. RL In addition to ProBalance, there are countless features allowing the user to take full automated control of the processes on their PC. You can have a wide range operations performed, or settings applied, each time a process is run. Core optimization technologies allow you to choose on what CPUs/cores a process should run, as well as what their CPU priority class and I/O priority class should be. You can also disallow certain processes from running, log all processes run, and even set various other process rules. These rules, along with many others, include automatically restarting or terminating a process after it reaches some CPU or memory threshold. For license enforcement, you can limit the number of instances of a process that can be running. A gaming mode allows for easy process priority optimization for avid gamers. |
#7
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
On Monday, December 3, 2012 1:14:58 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
http://www.memtest.org/ Thanks Paul. For noob me, I got two takeaways from reading your post: use memtest.org's test (which as I recall, I did, and I set it up for overnight, not 15 minutes, because the test took that long and it passed), and, use AUTO in BIOS for settings and let the uP figure it out on bootup. Sounds good to me! I'm not into performance, but stability. And as I say the slight crashes or freezes (no BSOD) I've had I think are due to stuff like a bad pirate program, or maybe like Don P says a bad CMOS battery on the mobo, and I don't think my memory is seated improperly but I'll double check since I'll be adding a new graphics card to replace the on-chip Intel built-in GPU. RL |
#8
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Does my memory clash with my processor?
RayLopez99 wrote:
On Monday, December 3, 2012 1:14:58 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote: http://www.memtest.org/ Thanks Paul. For noob me, I got two takeaways from reading your post: use memtest.org's test (which as I recall, I did, and I set it up for overnight, not 15 minutes, because the test took that long and it passed), and, use AUTO in BIOS for settings and let the uP figure it out on bootup. Sounds good to me! I'm not into performance, but stability. And as I say the slight crashes or freezes (no BSOD) I've had I think are due to stuff like a bad pirate program, or maybe like Don P says a bad CMOS battery on the mobo, and I don't think my memory is seated improperly but I'll double check since I'll be adding a new graphics card to replace the on-chip Intel built-in GPU. RL The first part of any technical endeavor is "observation". Comparing BIOS settings to CPUZ viewed settings while in Windows. On some of my motherboards here, I change the main Auto setting to Manual. Only to get the settings to all be displayed in the BIOS. Not to adjust anything. I then make very few adjustments to the memory. Like you, I might wish to correct the memory clock, since the BIOS might default to the wrong canonical value. For example, the old DDR400 low-CAS memory, wouldn't use the guaranteed aggressive settings by default, and the BIOS does that to ensure it starts the first time (i.e. make a mistake, reset the CMOS, and try again). So they may not have set up things, to "go aggressive" immediately. There are many numeric values in the BIOS memory settings page, that I don't know how to set up. One setting, for example, is a function of round trip flight time, between the processor and memory slot, using the copper traces as the path. The manufacturer knows the correct value. I've seen hobbyists guess at it (kinda shocking to me, since it's so easy to get wrong). But for a first visit, the plan isn't to twiddle everything. Just make sure the clock and maybe tCAS, look reasonable. I had one motherboard, where overclocking the processor core, I cranked the memory clock back one notch. And... the BIOS ignored my memory setting, and ran the memory much faster than I'd planned. The funny part is, the computer booted just fine. Since I was immediately going to use CPUZ, I found the bug right away. (My DDR2-800 CAS5 memory was run at DDR2-1066 CAS5.) So observation is the key, as much as anything. Visiting the enthusiast sites, to learn more, is a second step, and only if you're interested. On boards like Gigabyte, the memory page may be hidden. There can be a function key you press, to get the advanced memory page to appear. Whereas, on my Asus, the memory page is always there, but you may need to switch the main setting from Auto to Manual, just to get it to display the numbers it is using. Paul |
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