regarding Linux

Howdy all, I have been considering buying a copy of winxp 64. I am
currently running an FX-51 processor with 2 Raptor 36 GB HDs in a RAID 0
array (Winxp pro). I am considering creating a dual boot system with winxp
pro on one HD and winxp 64 on the other. I really only want to be able to
play games in 64 bit, truth be known But, after reading different
forums, I am wondering if maybe I would be better off dual booting with
Linux, instead. So, I guess my question:
1. can I play games using 64 bit with Linux?
2. should I continue considering using winxp64?
3. which would be the better waste of my time?
I am a quick learner, and the idea of learning a new OS (one that has such a
loyal following) is appealing. Any thoughts?

kevin

I'm certain that someone with a heck of a lot more experience than I have
will possibly disagree with me loudly, bluntly, and quite violently, but my
experience has been twofold regarding Linux (in reference to your question):

1.) The "games" section in any store is typically 98% Windows-based, 1%
Macintosh-based, and 1% Linux-based. As a result, I absolutely do not see
Linux as a valid gaming platform. It definitely has merits from a computing
or networking standpoint and is certainly interesting in that Rubik's cube
kinda way (and of course I'm seriously dating myself here), but if you're a
seriously hardcore gamer, this probably isn't going to satisfy you as your
primary OS. If you're the kind of person (like me) who "solved" the Rubik's
cube by breaking it into a bunch of pieces and putting it back together,
Linux probably isn't for you.

2.) When it comes to support, Windows is typically extremely intuitive
and has a widespread base of overly-friendly users willing to help you find
the answer which (most of the time) you would have found just by clicking on
"next" or "tools," "options." On the other hand, Linux is usually
completely non-intuitive, requiring that you type in some obscure string of
arbitrary command line text in order to do the simplest things (like
printing). Answers are usually found only after a half-hour long search on
Google and are either in the form of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics or
stereo instructions (whichever's worse). Your "fellow" users are typically
a surly group of Microsoft-hating, virus-writing, little kitten-torturing
psychopaths whose favorite phrase is typically "READ THE F***ING MANUAL!"
Just kidding. Honest! Seriously, though, Linux is typically a fair amount
harder to use and requires actual work to figure out, and doesn't tend to
have a lot of support.

In any event, I'd say that if you're looking at getting into Linux, bravo!
More power to you. I still haven't made the plunge myself. I just futz
around once in a while when I'm utterly bored playing with Windows, and I'm
sure as heck not brave enough to ask questions of the Linux crow. They're
always have that menacing look of playground bullies who'd just as soon beat
me up and take my lunch money (or infect me with a virus), and since I
actually like asking questions (and suck big green donkey nuggets at
research), I figure they'd just hurt me if I actually try to get FC3 running
in any real kind of way. I'm sure not going to play games on a platform
like THAT.



"Kev" wrote in message
news:t5mre.46358$x96.37004@attbi_s72...
Howdy all, I have been considering buying a copy of winxp 64. I am
currently running an FX-51 processor with 2 Raptor 36 GB HDs in a RAID 0
array (Winxp pro). I am considering creating a dual boot system with
winxp
pro on one HD and winxp 64 on the other. I really only want to be able to
play games in 64 bit, truth be known But, after reading different
forums, I am wondering if maybe I would be better off dual booting with
Linux, instead. So, I guess my question:
1. can I play games using 64 bit with Linux?
2. should I continue considering using winxp64?
3. which would be the better waste of my time?
I am a quick learner, and the idea of learning a new OS (one that has such
a
loyal following) is appealing. Any thoughts?

kevin

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:32:19 -0600, George Mattson wrote:

1.) The "games" section in any store is typically 98% Windows-based, 1%
Macintosh-based, and 1% Linux-based. As a result, I absolutely do not see
Linux as a valid gaming platform. It definitely has merits from a computing
or networking standpoint and is certainly interesting in that Rubik's cube
kinda way (and of course I'm seriously dating myself here), but if you're a
seriously hardcore gamer, this probably isn't going to satisfy you as your
primary OS. If you're the kind of person (like me) who "solved" the Rubik's
cube by breaking it into a bunch of pieces and putting it back together,
Linux probably isn't for you.

I tend to agree with you here. A mainstream gamer should probably stay
with windows, although some windows games ported to Linux actaully run
fatser on Linux than they do in windows. There's also tons of free games
for Linux. I moved to Linux from OS/2 about 4 years ago and I still
haven't even looked at all the games that came with the distro I use.

Now ALL the rest is pure BS. I'll just comment on a few things.

2.) When it comes to support, Windows is typically extremely
intuitive and has a widespread base of overly-friendly users willing to
help you find the answer which (most of the time) you would have found
just by clicking on "next" or "tools," "options." On the other hand,

And It's about the same in Linux, except that the error messages actually
give you some info you can use rather than just segmentation falut at
xxxxx.:-)

Linux is usually completely non-intuitive, requiring that you type in
some obscure string of arbitrary command line text in order to do the
simplest things (like printing).

I don't know what OS you were looking at, but it wasn't Linux. Yeah, you
can print from the command line, just like you can in windows (if you
still can), but most people print the same as you do in win, click on the
print button.


Answers are usually found only after a
half-hour long search on Google and are either in the form of ancient
Egyptian hieroglyphics or stereo instructions (whichever's worse).

You find answers the same way you do for windows. Either web search or ask
in a newsgroup.

Your "fellow" users are typically a surly group of Microsoft-hating,
virus-writing, little kitten-torturing psychopaths whose favorite phrase
is typically "READ THE F***ING MANUAL!" Just kidding. Honest!

I quit telling win users rtfm. I don't think most of them knew how. Just
kidding. Honest.:-)

Seriously, though, Linux is typically a fair amount harder to use and
requires actual work to figure out, and doesn't tend to have a lot of
support.

Linux is a lot easier to install and just as easy to use. Actually easier
when you consider you don't need all that virus checking software, driver
disk for the printer, the video card, etc, etc. And then htere's all the
other application software that comes with Linux that you have to load
extra with win. More people can setup a Linux machine than can setup a win
machine anytime.

In any event, I'd say that if you're looking at getting into Linux,
bravo! More power to you. I still haven't made the plunge myself.

Now it comes out. I should have known.

I just futz around once in a while when I'm utterly bored playing with
Windows, and I'm sure as heck not brave enough to ask questions of the
Linux crow. They're always have that menacing look of playground
bullies who'd just as soon beat me up and take my lunch money (or infect
me with a virus), and since I actually like asking questions (and suck
big green donkey nuggets at research), I figure they'd just hurt me if I
actually try to get FC3 running in any real kind of way. I'm sure not
going to play games on a platform like THAT.

IOW's you don't know anything about Linux or Linux users and support. Yep,
you're perfect to give an opinion about it.:-(

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

I just futz around once in a while when I'm utterly bored playing with
Windows, and I'm sure as heck not brave enough to ask questions of the
Linux crow. They're always have that menacing look of playground
bullies who'd just as soon beat me up and take my lunch money (or infect
me with a virus), and since I actually like asking questions (and suck
big green donkey nuggets at research), I figure they'd just hurt me if I
actually try to get FC3 running in any real kind of way. I'm sure not
going to play games on a platform like THAT.

IOW's you don't know anything about Linux or Linux users and support. Yep,
you're perfect to give an opinion about it.:-(

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes and George,
I appreciate both of your (very honest) replies. I actually got a pretty
good chuckle from both. And you definitely answered my questions. I guess
what I really should do is get a third hard drive and triple boot all three
OS's. While I tend to agree with you on the hammer and the Rubik's Cube, I
feel the need to at least give Linux a chance. This old dog can at least
learn one new trick...
kevin

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:56:03 +0000, Kev wrote:

I appreciate both of your (very honest) replies. I actually got a pretty
good chuckle from both. And you definitely answered my questions. I guess
what I really should do is get a third hard drive and triple boot all three
OS's. While I tend to agree with you on the hammer and the Rubik's Cube, I
feel the need to at least give Linux a chance. This old dog can at least
learn one new trick...
kevin

You can install Linux on the same HD as you have windows. If you just want
to see what it looks like, dl a Knoppix cd iso image, burn the image to cd
and then boot it. It runs completely from the cd. It's a lot slower that
way, but you will see about half of what you get with a basic distro. I
had my wife, a non computer user, install mandrake and she got it
installed. If she can do it, I garauntee most anyone can.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:56:03 +0000, Kev wrote:



I just futz around once in a while when I'm utterly bored playing with
Windows, and I'm sure as heck not brave enough to ask questions of the
Linux crow. They're always have that menacing look of playground
bullies who'd just as soon beat me up and take my lunch money (or infect
me with a virus), and since I actually like asking questions (and suck
big green donkey nuggets at research), I figure they'd just hurt me if I
actually try to get FC3 running in any real kind of way. I'm sure not
going to play games on a platform like THAT.

IOW's you don't know anything about Linux or Linux users and support. Yep,
you're perfect to give an opinion about it.:-(

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes and George,
I appreciate both of your (very honest) replies. I actually got a pretty
good chuckle from both. And you definitely answered my questions. I guess
what I really should do is get a third hard drive and triple boot all three
OS's. While I tend to agree with you on the hammer and the Rubik's Cube, I
feel the need to at least give Linux a chance. This old dog can at least
learn one new trick...
kevin

In a world of 400G hard drives you can have as many OSes as you want on a
machine. There are a lot of different Linux Distributions to try, they all
have there own characteristics. I prefer Fedora Core, FC4 just came out,
which is free, has an excellent installer, and is very reliable. Mandrake
2005LE is also a good choice. The paid for versions of Mandrake have the
advantage of integrating media players and binary graphics drivers which
Fedora (which uses strictly GPLed components) doesn't do, the free
version of Mandrake doesn't integrate these components. However you can
always add all of the available media players and binary graphics drivers
to any Linux distribution, that's what I do with Fedora.

I pretty much agree with everything that Wes said. However I'd like to
emphasize the following,

Linux is much much easier to install then Windows. Assuming you pick a
recent distribution, Fedora Core 4 for example, it will have all of the
necessary drivers so all you have to do is stick in the DVD, make your
choices, partition your drive and let it do the install. There aren't 12
million reboots like Windows because Linux can install a driver on a
running system unlike Windows which seems to require a reboot every time
you move your mouse. Also Linux distributions are constantly updated, 2 or
3 times a year for most distributions, so the current drivers are all
there. Microsoft goes 5 years between new OS releases and a couple of
years between service pack releases, that means that your XP disk won't
have the necessary drivers for recent hardware. Admittedly it's generally
not that bad a problem because you can download and install the drivers
once you have a running system (more reboots) but it's less convenient.

Administering Linux is also much easier then Windows. People with no Linux
experience, like George, believe that administering Linux is a black art.
In fact most Linux distributions come with a set of graphical admin tools
that are every bit as easy to use as those that come with Windows. Both
Fedora Core and Mandrake have good graphical tools, Mandrake's are a
little better in my opinion. However Linux has another tool called Webmin
which is a browser based admin tool that works for just about all Linux
distributions. Webmin is miles ahead of the standard Windows tools. It
allows you to configure all of the myriad servers that come with a Linux
distribution, it's very easy to understand, gives you a clear
understanding of what's available on your system, and (because it's
browser based) can be run remotely. Of course you can still administer
Linux the old fashion way by editing config files. This sounds hard but
it's not. The magic of text based config files is that you can read them.
On a Windows system you don't know what the admin tools have done because
you can't read the binary config files. When Windows screws up it's much
harder to figure out why. On Linux, even if you use the control panels or
Webmin, you can see the results and fix them if need be.

As for support, that's done mostly though Newsgroups. Every distribution
has it's own group plus there are a number of general groups like
comp.os.linux.misc, comp.os.linux.hardware, comp.os.linux.networking.
You'll find that the quality of the support in a Linux group will be much
better then in a Microsoft group because Linux user's are generally much
more knowledgeable than MS users and also be Linux is a community of users
who use it because they want to not because they have to.

However there are downsides, as everyone has pointed out there isn't much
in the way of games for Linux.

"Kev" wrote in message
news:t5mre.46358$x96.37004@attbi_s72...
Howdy all, I have been considering buying a copy of winxp 64. I am
currently running an FX-51 processor with 2 Raptor 36 GB HDs in a RAID 0
array (Winxp pro). I am considering creating a dual boot system with
winxp pro on one HD and winxp 64 on the other. I really only want to be
able to play games in 64 bit, truth be known But, after reading
different forums, I am wondering if maybe I would be better off dual
booting with Linux, instead. So, I guess my question:
1. can I play games using 64 bit with Linux?
2. should I continue considering using winxp64?
3. which would be the better waste of my time?
I am a quick learner, and the idea of learning a new OS (one that has such
a loyal following) is appealing. Any thoughts?

kevin


I'm getting rather tired of Windows too. There is no real innovation. (For
that matter look at the last 100 years. Name one NEW innovation. Cars are
the same, mostly, computers are the same (Since there's been computers
anyway, which the basic principles of computers have been a round for a long
time) There is no real innovation at all any more, that's sad. OK, back to
the topic.) Windows XP is really not that much different than Win98, which
really was not a lot different than 3.11, really.

If I do go to Linux it will most likely be Mandrake (Mandriva, or what ever
it is now.) I've messed with it off and on for quite a while and it's came
a long way in ease of use. I do play games and there really are enough for
Linux, not all the newest but enough. My only problem is it is a little
difficult to get hardware to get to work sometimes, but Mandrake has been
working on that too with Harddrake.

Anyway, I just thought I'd add my thoughts. Good luck with your Linux
endeavors.

"George Mattson" wrote in
:


2.) When it comes to support, Windows is typically extremely
intuitive and has a widespread base of overly-friendly users willing
to help you find the answer which (most of the time) you would have
found just by clicking on "next" or "tools," "options." On the other
hand, Linux is usually completely non-intuitive, requiring that you
type in some obscure string of arbitrary command line text in order to
do the simplest things (like printing). Answers are usually found
only after a half-hour long search on Google and are either in the
form of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics or stereo instructions
(whichever's worse). Your "fellow" users are typically a surly group
of Microsoft-hating, virus-writing, little kitten-torturing
psychopaths whose favorite phrase is typically "READ THE F***ING
MANUAL!" Just kidding. Honest! Seriously, though, Linux is typically
a fair amount harder to use and requires actual work to figure out,
and doesn't tend to have a lot of support.




That's got to be the most adccurate description of linux and linux users
I've ever read. you should put that on a T-Shirt or something.

"Earl" wrote in
:


I'm getting rather tired of Windows too. There is no real innovation.
(For that matter look at the last 100 years. Name one NEW
innovation. Cars are the same, mostly, computers are the same (Since
there's been computers anyway, which the basic principles of computers
have been a round for a long time) There is no real innovation at all
any more, that's sad. OK, back to the topic.) Windows XP is really
not that much different than Win98, which really was not a lot
different than 3.11, really.



How much innovation do you need in an OS? Apple tried to get real
innovatinve and now they have that pile of puke called osX which has got to
be one of the worst operating systems I've ever used. Then you have Linux,
which (much like an apple OS) gives you the rights to be in an elitist club
of computer users who have a severely hard time trying to find any decent
software. If you want to run a server, sure use linux, if you want to run
programs use windows, and if you want to waste money, buy a mac.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jon dough wrote:

How much innovation do you need in an OS? Apple tried to get real
innovatinve and now they have that pile of puke called osX which has got to
be one of the worst operating systems I've ever used. Then you have Linux,
which (much like an apple OS) gives you the rights to be in an elitist club
of computer users who have a severely hard time trying to find any decent
software. If you want to run a server, sure use linux, if you want to run
programs use windows, and if you want to waste money, buy a mac.

And if you listen to this person, you are as ignorant as him.

Let's break this down for a moment.

Server wise: yes, Linux wipes the floor with Windows. But that
isn't the problem here.

Desktop: This is totally wrong. There isn't a single
application out there (barring TurboTax) that there either a) isn't a
version for linux, or b) isn't a comparable program for linux.

Productivity: Crossover Office, StarOffice, OpenOffice. Who
needs MS Office? Banking? GNUCash.

Gaming: Most have a linux version out, or could be used with
WINE. Doom, Halo, Half-Life.. all have linux versions, or could be used
via WINE. Flightsimming? Use XPlane.

Graphics? the GIMP beats the hell out of Photoshop, and it's
FREE.

Anti-virus? Who said Windows virii infect linux boxes?
anti-spam? already there. just configure it.

The most common uses for people who use M$ Windows is more than
taken care of in Linux. the only reason why people still M$ Windows is
because it has become more of a household name. Perhaps if this poster
had done a lot more reading than his assumptions, he'd know better.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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