Freeeze during boot? Need Help

On 28 Mar 2009 13:32:05 GMT, Andy wrote:

darklight wrote:


Yes, I daresay he is. No way in hell that machine "needs" a 600W PSU.

Cheers,
Andy.


Well then, Andy - are you saying your opinion is that my problem is
not the PSU? If so, then do you think it is the motherboard?
It is supposed to be brand new. I bought it through PortaTech.com.
It wasn't cheap either.

Duke

On 28 Mar 2009 13:52:56 GMT, Andy wrote:


Can never be 100% sure at this distance from the machine in question.
It's feasable that a fault in the PSU could be causing the problem -
nothing to do with the 400W rating though.

Well said Andy.

The PSU is brand new, and is an identical replacement for a
predecessor that burnt out after a month's usage. Doesn't say much
for the vendor's product, does it? Maybe he is selling defective
stuff?

Duke

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:08:59 +0000, darklight
wrote:

wrote:

It is a AMD Phenom 9550 Quad-Core 2.6GHz.
ASUS M3A78-CM MOBO.
3.25GB (Supposed to be 4GB) DDR2 RAM.
400W PSU.

i would suggest changing your power supply for 600W. hard drives
take power when you power up and go into bios what is the temp
reading
what happens if you run just one hard drive.
XP SP2.

Well - now I have it running with only the SATA hard drive. When I
powered up this AM, it stopped immediately with no raster whatsoever.
Then when I immediately powered up a second time, it completed the
boot okay. Almost like the 450W PSU can't handle the initial power
requirements?

Duke

I've been following the thread here with interest, since I just went
through the same problem with my system. When the computer was first
turned on in the morning, it was cold in the room (heat down at night
for sleeping). Powering on, the system would not get very far in the
boot process before it would freeze with a BSOD, always different.

I happen to have extra components and tried them all, including memory,
video card, power supply, disk drive, cables, reseated all connections.
I was certain it was the PSU, but a known good one was used and the
problem occurred just the same. The culprit was the motherboard.
Probably some cold solder joint that broke connection when the
components were cool, as the system would run forever after it warmed up
a bit and completed a boot, but it got increasingly more difficult to
reach a working state.

I replaced the MB, a Asus P5B-Plus, with a Asus P5Q-PRO (I wanted to do
this anyway...how convenient EG).

I did a repair install of Windows XP Home and the system has been rock
stable since. The CPU is a E6600 OCed to 3.2 GHz at stock voltage.

I would have bet good money it was the PSU, but it was indeed the MB.
In your case, I would try a different, higher wattage PSU (just to rule
out both the PSU and the "not enough wattage" possibility, if it's not a
well made, name brand supply. It can't hurt). If nothing changes with
another PSU, it could be any other component that hasn't been replaced
yet and that includes the MB.

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:06:08 -0400, "RobV"
wrote:

wrote:

It is a AMD Phenom 9550 Quad-Core 2.6GHz.
ASUS M3A78-CM MOBO.
3.25GB (Supposed to be 4GB) DDR2 RAM.
400W PSU.
Well - now I have it running with only the SATA hard drive. When I
powered up this AM, it stopped immediately with no raster whatsoever.
Then when I immediately powered up a second time, it completed the
boot okay. Almost like the 450W PSU can't handle the initial power
requirements?
Duke

I've been following the thread here with interest, since I just went
through the same problem with my system. When the computer was first
turned on in the morning, it was cold in the room (heat down at night
for sleeping). Powering on, the system would not get very far in the
boot process before it would freeze with a BSOD, always different.

I happen to have extra components and tried them all, including memory,
video card, power supply, disk drive, cables, reseated all connections.
I was certain it was the PSU, but a known good one was used and the
problem occurred just the same. The culprit was the motherboard.
Probably some cold solder joint that broke connection when the
components were cool, as the system would run forever after it warmed up
a bit and completed a boot, but it got increasingly more difficult to
reach a working state.

I replaced the MB, a Asus P5B-Plus, with a Asus P5Q-PRO (I wanted to do
this anyway...how convenient EG).

I did a repair install of Windows XP Home and the system has been rock
stable since. The CPU is a E6600 OCed to 3.2 GHz at stock voltage.

I would have bet good money it was the PSU, but it was indeed the MB.
In your case, I would try a different, higher wattage PSU (just to rule
out both the PSU and the "not enough wattage" possibility, if it's not a
well made, name brand supply. It can't hurt). If nothing changes with
another PSU, it could be any other component that hasn't been replaced
yet and that includes the MB.

Your comments do not surprise me at all. I now fully expect that
changing PSU's will do no good, since the problem has already
persisted despite my replacement with (1) an identical new one from
the vendor because the first one burnt out and (2) a similar-wattage
one I had in my closet. I hate the thought and the cost of having to
return the tower and its mobo/cpu to the vendor though. That's even
assuming the vendor will replace it. And of course I will lose
computer use during the interim.

I don't know what to do. I fear what is now an aggravation will
develop into something more serious and untenable.

Duke

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 05:33:08 -0500, jw wrote:

I don't know what to do.

What happens if you leave the PC sitting at e.g. the BIOS password
prompt for 5 minutes when switching on from cold, before booting your
operating system?

--
/\/\aurice
(Retired in Surrey, UK) Registered Linux User #487649
Linux Mandriva 2.6.27.19-desktop-1mnb (i686) 2009.0 32-bit
KDE 3.5.10 Virtualbox 2.1.4
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:25:54 +0100, Maurice Batey
wrote:

What happens if you leave the PC sitting at e.g. the BIOS password
prompt for 5 minutes when switching on from cold, before booting your
operating system?


Now when I cold start the thing in the AM, it doesn't get to the BIOS
at all. It sits there with CPU fan spinning and screen blank. If I
power off and then on again, it completes the boot fine.

Duke

On Mar 29, 2:35*pm, wrote:
Now when I cold start the thing in the AM, it doesn't get to the BIOS
at all. *It sits there with CPU fan spinning and screen blank. *If I
power off and then on again, it completes the boot fine. *

After all that work, at this point you must have a list of what you
know is good. I suspect you do not because so many recommended by
swapping parts rather than getting numbers that say something
definitively - without doubt.

Until you have established power supply 'system' integrity, then
everything will appear defective. Worse, a defective power supply
system can still boot a computer. The only way to identify a
defective power supply system is with a multimeter while that system
is under heavy load. The meter is even sold where hammers are sold
for about the same price which means you can have that meter and
useful information quickly.

In your case, the most important numbers are from any one of purple,
red, orange and yellow wires by probing where wires enter a nylon
connector on the motherboard. Getting the computer to do as much as
possible (without crashing) is when those numbers report anything
useful. DC voltage numbers must exceed 3.23, 4.87, or 11.7. Posting
those numbers here means others with better knowledge can provide
additional facts.

Currently you are spinning wheels - do not even have a list of what
you know is good. First step to any accomplishment is to establish
power supply 'system' integrity. If others did not mention it, the
system is more than just a power supply.

Computer could have always had a defective supply 'system'. It
booted. But the defect would have only been identified months ago
with the meter. Even a perfectly good power swapped into a computer
can appear act defective. Or a defective supply can still boot the
computer. Without the meter, nobody would know. Without numbers,
nobody out here with better knowledge can provide useful assistance.

Is the power supply undersized? Even that question is answered when
posting those numbers here. At this point (after all that work), you
should know that the power supply ‘system’ is good – and have long
moved on to other suspects. Due to shotgunning, you have not even
accomplished that. Get the multimeter even in Wal-mart for less than
$18. Then have useful and definitive answers in the next post.

wrote:

I am having trouble with a new system I have created.
It freezes during boot at the XP setup window pretty much the first
time I power up each morning. When I re-power up it boots to desktop
just fine. It's almost like it is having trouble cold-starting.

The system has three hard drives, one SATA, two IDE, plus a SATA DVD
burner.
It is a AMD Phenom 9550 Quad-Core 2.6GHz.
ASUS M3A78-CM MOBO.
3.25GB (Supposed to be 4GB) DDR2 RAM.
400W PSU.
XP SP2.

Can someone suggest where I might start looking to determine wherein
the problem lies? Or should I leave the machine on overnight? I have
always been afraid to do that.

Duke


ram power consumption
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hard..._21289064.html

hard drive power consumption
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/500gb-...-31519-11.html

your cpu takes 125W

now do the maths
ok go here and find out about power consumption

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:39:56 +0100, darklight
wrote:


ram power consumption
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hard..._21289064.html

hard drive power consumption
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/500gb-...-31519-11.html

your cpu takes 125W

now do the maths


Looks like 400W is sufficient.

Duke

wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:39:56 +0100, darklight
wrote:


ram power consumption
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hard..._21289064.html

hard drive power consumption
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/500gb-...-31519-11.html

your cpu takes 125W

now do the maths


Looks like 400W is sufficient.

Duke

The system has three hard drives, one SATA, two IDE, plus a SATA DVD
burner.
It is a AMD Phenom 9550 Quad-Core 2.6GHz.
ASUS M3A78-CM MOBO.
3.25GB (Supposed to be 4GB) DDR2 RAM.
400W PSU.
XP SP2.

Three hard drives @ 12W each. 36W
DVD burner 12V @ 1.5A, 5V @ 1.5A, (12V drawn when media inserted.) 25W max
Phenom 9550 95W/0.90 = 105.6W at ATX12V 2x2. ( http://products.amd.com/en-us/Deskto...il.aspx?id=400 )
Motherboard plus RAM - allocate 50W
10W for 5VSB and USB loads.
6W for fans
-----------
36+25+105.6+50+10+6=232.6W (and my estimates are still higher than the real system).

So 400W should cover it.

(For RAM, you can get power numbers from Kingston. This 2x2GB DDR2-800 kit, draws 2W per module.)
http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX6400D2K2_4G.pdf

I allocate 50W for motherboard and RAM, to cover a 20W+ Northbridge, a
5-10W Southbridge, and the small amount of power that DDR2 or DDR3
DIMMs now draw.

When a system is sitting idle, it draws much less power than that
estimate. That estimate is for a gaming situation. And with built-in
graphics, you're unlikely to max the power consumption. Maybe Prime95
would be the best loading situation you could achieve on that system.

Power supply analysis, should be done on a per-rail basis. All
the numbers on the power supply label, have a meaning, and should
be checked. But at a first order approximation, the 400W should
be enough.

When the computer starts, the BIOS will be single threaded, and
only one of the four cores will be doing anything. The hard drives
draw more current for the first ten seconds (spinup), but the processor
draws very little power, and the effects cancel out. I do a
detailed calculation of startup power, if there are four or more
hard drives present. If you get enough hard drives in a system,
and they each draw 2.5A during the ten second spinup, eventually
that becomes significant.

Paul