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#1
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
Hi:
I wonder if it is possible to design a PC that does not reqiure any fans or discs. This computer uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occuring. Also, couldn't a PC be built in such a way that it freshly generates the correct electric signals ["on the fly"] instead of playing them back from its ROM chips? Its not that I don't like ROM. I was curious as to whether there is an "on the fly" alternative that freshly-generates the electronic signals [that are normally stored in ROMs] instead of playing them back from the ROM. There are sets of instructions stored in ROMs. In the case of a PC, these instructions load before the CPU "knows" it has a hard drive or other peripheral devices. Couldn't those instructions be generated in real-time insteading of storing them? I am aware that EEPROM is reliable, low power, customizable, reprogram- able, cheap and proven. But just out of curiosity, my dream PC is hard- coded [thus not needing any ROM] and also uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occurring. Other specs are below. The stuff below also do not need any ROM memory because they are physically-built to generate the signals which correspond to the following. OS: Windows 98SE Browser: Mozilla Suite 1.8b No fans, no discs, no moving parts, no ROM [except for the CD/DVD recording/playing and re-writing]. IOW, my dream PC would work perfectly but would not need any moving parts, discs, or fans. The "HDD" would consists of silicon RAM chips in place of disc-platters and electric parts in place of magnetic parts. No moving parts, no noise, no fans, no magnets, no hazardous heat. To put it simply, what I am describing is a PC that does not need to store any information because all of the signal codings for the info is generated in real-time. The following is a bad analogy but I'll add it anyway. PC reading info from memory = sample playback synth playing back its samples of sounds of an FM synth. PC generating its signals in real-time = an *actual* FM synth freshly- generating its tones "on the fly". Yes, I know, the above is a poor analogy but I couldn't think of anything better. Thanks, Radium |
#2
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
Radium wrote:
Hi: Just unplug your computer and throw the IEC cord away. It will meet all three requirements, forever. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#3
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
On 24 maalis, 06:01, "Radium" wrote:
I wonder if it is possible to design a PC that does not reqiure any fans or discs. Yes, either a C64 with no disk drive (or after-market HDD), only tape drive and cartridges. Get a 20MHz accelerator if browsing on contiki feels too slow. Or: any modern PC, just remove the HDD and replace with an SSD and replace any heatsink+fan combos with large enough chunks of metal +heatpipes. Or get a Zalman TNN300/500 case. -- |
#4
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
Palm pilot?
Windows CE device? |
#5
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
On 2007-03-24, Radium wrote:
I wonder if it is possible to design a PC that does not reqiure any fans or discs. Sure, that's easy enough with off the self hardware, with a few provisos. This computer uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occuring. Is RAM really appropriate for long term or bulk storage? What happens when you turn the system off? Even flash isn't really suited for HDD replacement due to its limited write endurance, although the situation is improving. Also, couldn't a PC be built in such a way that it freshly generates the correct electric signals ["on the fly"] instead of playing them back from its ROM chips? Well yes. You indirectly mention microcode later in your post which is not present on all processors - some instead prefer so-called 'random logic' (because a schematic appears to have no discernable pattern or structure). For microcode it's viable although inflexible - consider the Pentium f00f bug which was corrected with new microcode. With random logic you'd need a new, redesigned chip. For anything other than microcode, it would quickly become impractical. If you were writing,say, a bottloader, you would have to write your software and then design a chip from scratch that spat it out. Such a chip would likely be bigger and slower than a ROM chip. I am aware that EEPROM is reliable, low power, customizable, reprogram- able, cheap and proven. But just out of curiosity, my dream PC is hard- coded [thus not needing any ROM] and also uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occurring. What makes you think a massively parallel system would be more reliable than a uniprocessor solution? The software is substantially more difficult to write - the development tools for parallel processing are fairly crude. Thorough testing is even harder. You may be interested in looking at the INMOS transputer. That seems broadly comparable to what you have in mind (apart from this strange wish for a ROMless computer) and it was designed 20 years ago. OS: Windows 98SE Browser: Mozilla Suite 1.8b Forget it. Such a fundamentally different architechure would never run a current version of Windows: too many assumptions about the underlying architechure are made for that. You'd need custom, designed from the ground up versions of your software. The following is a bad analogy but I'll add it anyway. PC reading info from memory = sample playback synth playing back its samples of sounds of an FM synth. PC generating its signals in real-time = an *actual* FM synth freshly- generating its tones "on the fly". This appears more confusing than the main thrust of your article for several reasons, and I suspect you're not altogether clear of the underlying priciples. But I'm no expert there so I'll leave that one lie. -- Andrew Smallshaw |
#6
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
Not sure about fans but for disks, you are talking about solid state drives.
Those are available now but way too expensive for the common market. -g |
#7
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
On 23 Mar 2007 21:01:29 -0700, "Radium"
wrote: Hi: I wonder if it is possible to design a PC that does not reqiure any fans or discs. yes, but do you really need it or is this just a novelty idea or a passing fancy without real benefit? A well designed system will not be loud, even inaudible with fans. It will run cool if you select power efficient components, and of course don't need modern performance levels, or spend more time and money on the cooling solution. This computer uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. It's starting to read like a daydream, not something you are going to need let alone build. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. False, mechanical/magnetic discs don't use a very high % of system power, getting rid of one doesn't by itself allow fanless or motionless. Do you need it to journey to outer space? If not, you probably have a more modest # of years life requirement. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occuring. I hate to break it to you, but this is not some grand vision, it is the obvious eventual evolution of computers, mentioned time and time again. The key here is that always wishing for some better future tech is silly. If you can't make due with contemporary tech, odds are that when that new tech finally comes to pass you will still be having same kinds of thoughts, that the (then) contemporary tech is not ideal and .... if only... some thing changes... it's even better. Being modern means using what is available to get the job done, being able to use the technology instead of only finding it problematic. Also, couldn't a PC be built in such a way that it freshly generates the correct electric signals ["on the fly"] instead of playing them back from its ROM chips? Its not that I don't like ROM. I was curious as to whether there is an "on the fly" alternative that freshly-generates the electronic signals [that are normally stored in ROMs] instead of playing them back from the ROM. No, a piece of silcon is dumb, awaiting instrucitons that are pre-written. There are sets of instructions stored in ROMs. In the case of a PC, these instructions load before the CPU "knows" it has a hard drive or other peripheral devices. Couldn't those instructions be generated in real-time insteading of storing them? Generated by what? You'd then need instructions for it to generate the instructions, a bit like telling you to walk over to the ringing phone, knowing that when you answer, it will be my pre-recorded message telling you to go to the store and get some bread and milk. It is pointless since I could have just told you to get the bread and milk instead of introducing the additional step. I am aware that EEPROM is reliable, low power, customizable, reprogram- able, cheap and proven. But just out of curiosity, my dream PC is hard- coded [thus not needing any ROM] and also uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store information and does not need a CPU because each bit of information is provided with a processing unit and its own memory. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. It is entirely chip-based. Since each bit is provided with its own memory and processing, this would prevent crashes or overheating from occurring. You have no dream PC, just fragments of concepts that are not targeted towards anything in particular. I recommend that you do as briefly suggested above, to better learn to use the technology available. Let tomorrow take care of itself unless you are the engineer being paid to come up with these inventions. |
#8
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt "geoff" wrote:
Not sure about fans but for disks, you are talking about solid state drives. Those are available now but way too expensive for the common market. -g At one time, not too long ago either, a 4-gig drive for under $200 would seem like a hell of a bargain. Two of them isn't really all that bad, even today, as long as you're not downloading big video files. Sombody *is* making a computer with all solid-state disk-drives ... 80 gig, as I recall. A bit pricey though, as you state. -- _____ / ' / â„¢ ,-/-, __ __. ____ /_ (_/ / (_(_/|_/ / _/ _ |
#9
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
On Mar 24, 10:49 am, kony wrote:
On 23 Mar 2007 21:01:29 -0700, "Radium" wrote: Hi: I wonder if it is possible to design a PC that does not reqiure any fans or discs. yes, but do you really need it or is this just a novelty idea or a passing fancy without real benefit? I don't need it but I would like it. This would make the PC run much faster and not need any fans or moving parts. False, mechanical/magnetic discs don't use a very high % of system power, getting rid of one doesn't by itself allow fanless or motionless. Never said it neccesarily would. The key here is that always wishing for some better future tech is silly. Agreed. If you can't make due with contemporary tech, odds are that when that new tech finally comes to pass you will still be having same kinds of thoughts, that the (then) contemporary tech is not ideal and .... if only... some thing changes... it's even better. Nope. |
#10
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My Dream PC -- Silent, Cold, and Motionless
On Mar 24, 3:59 am, wrote:
Yes, either a C64 with no disk drive (or after-market HDD), only tape drive and cartridges. Get a 20MHz accelerator if browsing on contiki feels too slow. Or: any modern PC, just remove the HDD and replace with an SSD and replace any heatsink+fan combos with large enough chunks of metal +heatpipes. Or get a Zalman TNN300/500 case. Yes. I do prefer SSD over HDD. |
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