Dvorak Likes Linux

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Jan Panteltje wrote:
(Nate Edel) wrote in :
Digital Photo Pro which comes with the EOS Cameras for doing RAW conversions
isn't crap. It's not as good as Adobe's Camera Raw plugin for Photoshop,
but it's significantly better than any of the free alternatives.
..
Then again, I'm fairly sure it runs under Wine or at least Crossover, if you
absolutely have to use it.

Not one single driver I have tried to install in wine works _NOT ONE_.

WINE doesn't generally support drivers, but for manufacturer's support
applications my experience is that it has gotten much, much better in the
past 2-3 years to the point where in general if a program isn't written by
MS or Adobe, it'll just run.

Same for running virtualiser software, it is annoying slow,

Depends on what hardware you're running. It's very memory hungry, to be
sure, but before I ditched it to use Crossover this past summer, I was
running Windows on VirtualBox full time for over a year and found the
performance perfectly fine for office tasks (and running a SQL Server
Developer edition, which is heavier-duty), even while doing heavy
development work on the Linux.

My hardware was memory heavy (6gb) but not THAT high end - the processor
(X6800) was top of the line 3 years ago, which is to say a pretty average
for an entusiast PC today.

VMWare Workstation is non-free, but performs even better - but I couldn't
justify paying for it, or bugging my manager to approve it, when the trial
expired and VirtualBox was free and good enough.

A problem if you have the same PC up as a server (can not just go
offline). So you need 2 computers, one for Linux and one for whatever MS
software, or maybe even 3.

I do that at home - laptop (dual boot), server (Linux), and desktop
(Windows.) Although at this point, I'm pretty close to retiring the Windows
desktop - virtually everything I used it for can now be done either on Linux
or on my laptop.

Nokia has this nice software to communicate with my mobile phone. I could
not even download it with firefox on Linux from the Ducth nokia site:
'Wrong OS' message. Now that never stopped me, so I have it now, but
anyways it will not run in Linux. Same for every other thing you want to
connect to your Linux computer, no drivers, no application software, no
support from the vendor.

A lot depends on how close to the bleeding edge you stay - I've hit very few
problems up to the current scanner. Old HP scanner? Just worked. Webcam?
Just worked. Laptop? Linux just worked - Windows XP, I had to use a floppy
disk or slipstreamed CD just to get it to see the AHCI hard drive
controller, and then loaded about a dozen drivers. Windows Vista worked
better, but still required 3 critical drivers to get it working right.

Of course, it does depend on how you use the hardwa both my DSLR (Canon)
and my camcorder (Panasonic) have cables to hook to the computer, but I find
that both are much easier to use by popping out the card.

Simply use good software with that good camera, not some bundled crap.

Which doesn't require a driver; popping the card out and putting it into a
card reader is much quicker.

Sometimes... There are circumstances where you do not want to open the
camera.

I've not hit them, but I'll take your word for that - the only one I can
think of is if you've lost your card reader, but do have the appropriate
cable.

With cellphones it is even more so, you lose you time settings,
as you also have to take the battery out.

None of my or my wife's recent cell phones have required the battery removed
to get at the card, but I can see that being quite inconvenient.

But if I go out and buy something, I need MS windows so I can work with
it. Because of that Linux is only for nerds.

Or you can choose to support vendors which work well with Linux, and look up
supported hardware before you buy it. There will always be tradeoffs, and
right now the Linux tradeoffs are pretty significant losses of convenience.
But it's come a very long way - I think Linux is better off now than NT 4.0
was when it came out (with most things only having drivers for Win 95.)

You got to be realistic, some people seem sort of blind to that. Anybody
who has any real experience will know the plusses and minus of both MS
software and Linux. Both have their goods, and you need BOTH, or at least
MS if you want to go with the masses.

For a lot of people, they buy the PC once, and then forget about expansions.
For many of them Linux will run fine if the PC manufacturer/packager makes
sure everything the sell with it is Linux compatible.

For serious enthusiasts, it's more a question of whether running Linux is
the priority, or getting the best hardware.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Tom Lake wrote:
Why would you use a server to run apps? A server should just be a server
and not used as a general PC anyway.

Because for home use, one machine is usually kinder on your electrical bill
than two

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."

Robert Myers wrote:
Microsoft is forever messing around with SMB to make it hard for Samba
and those who want to make Samba transparent. I still haven't gotten
SMB networking to Linux to work after the most recent Microsoft
"Service Packs." I'm sure I'll wind up learning much more than I want
to know about Microsoft's latest authentication kinks.

Windows networking through Linux has been one of the easiest things in
Ubuntu. It used to be a pain in the neck before, but it comes standard
in most distros these days and it works just fine in my Windows XP-based
network. Both printing and filesystem sharing.

Your MS-Word documents and presentations come out looking funny in
Star Office. I can live with that, but many people can't. If you
have to hack and fiddle or if the OS won't do what people generally
expect it to do, then it's not a general-purpose OS. Think how
important it is to Apple that Microsoft continue to support Office on
the Mac.

Or, as most governments throughout the world have learned: start using
the ODF industry standard.

These limitations are all a result of Microsoft monopolistic business
practices? For the most part, yes. What do you plan on doing about
it?


I don't know about you, but most of us are already doing something about
it. Only you don't like what we're doing about it. Your loss.

Yousuf Khan

On Mar 23, 5:54*pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
Microsoft is forever messing around with SMB to make it hard for Samba
and those who want to make Samba transparent. *I still haven't gotten
SMB networking to Linux to work after the most recent Microsoft
"Service Packs." *I'm sure I'll wind up learning much more than I want
to know about Microsoft's latest authentication kinks.

Windows networking through Linux has been one of the easiest things in
Ubuntu. It used to be a pain in the neck before, but it comes standard
in most distros these days and it works just fine in my Windows XP-based
network. Both printing and filesystem sharing.

Thanks for the info, Yousuf. Did you get the idea that I know a
little bit about SMB networking? The latest Windows service packs
broke something and I haven't had a chance to figure out what. It's
not a huge deal; just the kind of the annoyance that people don't want
to have to bother with. Windows does an auto-update and suddenly
files on your Linux box are stranded--if you're dependent on SMB
networking. People just don't want surprise debug sessions.

Your MS-Word documents and presentations come out looking funny in
Star Office. *I can live with that, but many people can't. *If you
have to hack and fiddle or if the OS won't do what people generally
expect it to do, then it's not a general-purpose OS. *Think how
important it is to Apple that Microsoft continue to support Office on
the Mac.

Or, as most governments throughout the world have learned: start using
the ODF industry standard.

It's incomprehensible to me why anyone would store anything in anyone
else's proprietary format, and I don't--unless that's the format the
original document was in.

These limitations are all a result of Microsoft monopolistic business
practices? *For the most part, yes. *What do you plan on doing about
it?

I don't know about you, but most of us are already doing something about
it. Only you don't like what we're doing about it. Your loss.


Where did you ever get that idea? I use OpenOffice on Windows and
Linux. When someone gets a new system, I pitch Linux. I think Linux
is great. That still doesn't make it suitable as a general purpose
operating system.

It's probably all moot, anyway, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
Wonder how IBM's posture toward Linux will change if it acquires Sun.

Robert.

On a sunny day (Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:57:07 -0700) it happened
(Nate Edel) wrote in :

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Jan Panteltje wrote:
(Nate Edel) wrote in :
Digital Photo Pro which comes with the EOS Cameras for doing RAW conversions
isn't crap. It's not as good as Adobe's Camera Raw plugin for Photoshop,
but it's significantly better than any of the free alternatives.
..
Then again, I'm fairly sure it runs under Wine or at least Crossover, if you
absolutely have to use it.

Not one single driver I have tried to install in wine works _NOT ONE_.

WINE doesn't generally support drivers, but for manufacturer's support
applications my experience is that it has gotten much, much better in the
past 2-3 years to the point where in general if a program isn't written by
MS or Adobe, it'll just run.

:-)


Or you can choose to support vendors which work well with Linux, and look up
supported hardware before you buy it. There will always be tradeoffs, and
right now the Linux tradeoffs are pretty significant losses of convenience.
But it's come a very long way - I think Linux is better off now than NT 4.0
was when it came out (with most things only having drivers for Win 95.)

You got to be realistic, some people seem sort of blind to that. Anybody
who has any real experience will know the plusses and minus of both MS
software and Linux. Both have their goods, and you need BOTH, or at least
MS if you want to go with the masses.

For a lot of people, they buy the PC once, and then forget about expansions.
For many of them Linux will run fine if the PC manufacturer/packager makes
sure everything the sell with it is Linux compatible.

For serious enthusiasts, it's more a question of whether running Linux is
the priority, or getting the best hardware.

I have played with the new Xp I bought this weekend, and I must say that a couple
of things are very strange to me.
It takes up about 5GB on my system (I did set aside a 10GB partition for it) with
only a few applications installed.
I installed opera, firefox, and the flash plugin.
It jerks terribly on youtube videos.
I also installed the Visual C++ free compiler from MS today, leaving even less disk
space.
But worst of all, my digital satellite TV is useless on Xp (tried 2 packages).
It is perfect in Linux, well I wrote xdipo.....
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/satellite/index.html
and did a kernel DVB driver mod, else it is useless in Linux too here.
I do not think the mod ever made it into the DVB project, beats me how they watch DTV... LOL,
must be unreliable as hell.
So, I decided to keep Linux on the eeePC, and use Xp for things like the Nokia cellphone suite,
and maybe MS moviemaker, Epson, and then the eeePC (701!) can run the servers, it did it all weekend,
It is not clear to me why Xp should use so much disk space....
When I feel in the mood some time I will perhaps investigate that,

Of course the best hardware should be the priority, but you can have perfect hardware,
and rotten software, and then still not have anything.
Or no software at all, for example the Asus 7100 de Luxe videocard I have, has nice composite in,
for the Linux kernel 2.6.15 there was a driver, the module format changed,
and now the driver module 'rivatv.ko' no longer compiles, and although I sort of wanted
to rewrite it for this kernel, it is a beast.
It always comes down to that in Linux: It does not work, or you have to write it yourself.
That rivatv project seems dead since 2006, no new releases.
As for the 'webcam always working', that is not correct either in Linux, why do you think I wrote mcamip:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/mcamip/
and the same for 'mcam'
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/mcam/index.html
(years and years before that), and the same for the cheap other Q-Tec webcam:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/spcaview/index.html
'Working'... maybe, but of any use????? That is a whole difference.

So... and there is the constant changes of API, first there was the libc **** with RatHead, then firewall
changed from ipchains to iptables, now they want to change it again.
I have a lot of scripts to protect against attacks on the server, all needs to be rewritten, then the
module format changed, the sound API changed from OSS to Alsa (do not think it got better, it did not),
then the DVB API changed a _couple_ of times, etc etc.
Nice if you are working on that, but terrible if you have to rewrite all your programs
as application developer every time a new kernel comes out.
Anyways, I am so used to writing what is not there.... I downloaded free agent newsreader for Xp,
did notice it is no longer free, so got an old version, then the word 'restrictions' came up,
actually I love this newsreader I wrote and use:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
I wrote it because -of course- there was nothing that looked like free agent for Linux in 1998?
And this one has no 'restrictions' whatever that may mean.

I have been thinking maybe I should bring out a 'Panteltje Linux', and sell DVDs with it for 10 Euro or so.
Judging by the number of downloads maybe I would make some $$$, OTOH if you
can download for free who needs a DVD.
Make the server extra slow ;-)
Sell support, now that brings you full circle:
Q: Why does my Nokia software not run in your Pantelte Linux.? A: it is for Xp.
Q: Why does my Nokia bluetooth headset not work... A: because somebody did not do something right,.
No way can I do support for soft I did not write.
Conclusion: Linux is for geeks.

Robert Myers wrote:

Where did you ever get that idea?

From your trolling?

Tell us again how "you have to be willing to hack and fiddle" with
Linux, Robert, because I have not needed to do so. In fact, getting
Linux up and running from a blank HD is, in my experience, FAR easier
than Windows.

Tell us again how there might be "questionable legality" to watching
youtube videos, as if users of Free software like Ubuntu are not, if
fact, FAR cleaner, legally, than the typical Windows user.

I use OpenOffice

Which you recently called "Star Office", implying that you hadn't
tried it in a long time.

on Windows and Linux.

....and claimed, without qualification, that it screws-up "MS-Word
documents and presentations".

When someone gets a new system, I pitch Linux. I think Linux
is great.

Yet you'll FUD it up and down the street. Right.

That still doesn't make it suitable as a general purpose
operating system.

You're right - what some troll claims he "pitches" or "thinks" is not
relevant to that question.

The fact that it's highly "suitable" general purpose operating system,
for a large portion of the market, is based entirely on Linux' own
merits.

Robert Myers wrote:
Thanks for the info, Yousuf. Did you get the idea that I know a
little bit about SMB networking? The latest Windows service packs
broke something and I haven't had a chance to figure out what. It's
not a huge deal; just the kind of the annoyance that people don't want
to have to bother with. Windows does an auto-update and suddenly
files on your Linux box are stranded--if you're dependent on SMB
networking. People just don't want surprise debug sessions.

Well, as it is, Windows often doesn't work with Windows, though it's
gotten much more reliable with Windows XP/2000 came out. Something that
was working one day will all of a sudden decide it doesn't want to work
another day, even without a service pack or patch update.

Where did you ever get that idea? I use OpenOffice on Windows and
Linux. When someone gets a new system, I pitch Linux. I think Linux
is great. That still doesn't make it suitable as a general purpose
operating system.

If you like it so much, then why are you arguing?

It's probably all moot, anyway, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
Wonder how IBM's posture toward Linux will change if it acquires Sun.


What's one got to do with the other? Both Sun and IBM are now into open
source.

Yousuf Khan

On Mar 24, 9:15*pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
Thanks for the info, Yousuf. *Did you get the idea that I know a
little bit about SMB networking? *The latest Windows service packs
broke something and I haven't had a chance to figure out what. *It's
not a huge deal; just the kind of the annoyance that people don't want
to have to bother with. *Windows does an auto-update and suddenly
files on your Linux box are stranded--if you're dependent on SMB
networking. *People just don't want surprise debug sessions.

Well, as it is, Windows often doesn't work with Windows, though it's
gotten much more reliable with Windows XP/2000 came out. Something that
was working one day will all of a sudden decide it doesn't want to work
another day, even without a service pack or patch update.

I've never had problems with XP/2000 SMB networking.

Microsoft has been deliberately obstructive about details of its SMB
implementation. It's no secret that Bill Gates hates Samba. The EU
has forced Microsoft to disgorge some information, but, last I was
paying attention, not nearly enough.

It's ugly but it's real: if you want to network to and from desktop
Linux and desktop Windows, you're doing something that Gates doesn't
want you doing. If Microsoft can find a way to make it hard, it will.

Where did you ever get that idea? *I use OpenOffice on Windows and
Linux. *When someone gets a new system, I pitch Linux. *I think Linux
is great. *That still doesn't make it suitable as a general purpose
operating system.

If you like it so much, then why are you arguing?

I'll let you review the logic of the argument for yourself. The fact
that I "like" Linux (for some things) does not mean that it is
suitable as a general purpose desktop OS. I still use Windows more or
less because I have no choice.

It's probably all moot, anyway, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
Wonder how IBM's posture toward Linux will change if it acquires Sun.

What's one got to do with the other? Both Sun and IBM are now into open
source.

Hard to ride two horses (Linux and Solaris) at the same time. Linux
would be nowhere without IBM. IBM could choose to pump up Solaris and
let Linux wither. If that doesn't happen, it would only be because
IBM already has such an investment in the Linux label. I can see many
advantages to IBM pushing Solaris.

Robert.

Robert Myers wrote:
It's probably all moot, anyway, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
Wonder how IBM's posture toward Linux will change if it acquires Sun.
What's one got to do with the other? Both Sun and IBM are now into open
source.

Hard to ride two horses (Linux and Solaris) at the same time. Linux
would be nowhere without IBM. IBM could choose to pump up Solaris and
let Linux wither. If that doesn't happen, it would only be because
IBM already has such an investment in the Linux label. I can see many
advantages to IBM pushing Solaris.

IBM is already riding two horses, it's got AIX.

Yousuf Khan

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:43:54 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

Robert Myers wrote:
It's probably all moot, anyway, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
Wonder how IBM's posture toward Linux will change if it acquires Sun.
What's one got to do with the other? Both Sun and IBM are now into open
source.

Hard to ride two horses (Linux and Solaris) at the same time. Linux
would be nowhere without IBM. IBM could choose to pump up Solaris and
let Linux wither. If that doesn't happen, it would only be because
IBM already has such an investment in the Linux label. I can see many
advantages to IBM pushing Solaris.

IBM is already riding two horses, it's got AIX.

IBM has any horse you're willing to pay them to ride.