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Dvorak Likes Linux



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 18th 09, 08:12 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Sebastian Kaliszewski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Ignorant, anti-Linux trolls SUCK

Robert Myers wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:06 am, chrisv wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
Linux really isn't a suitable general-purpose desktop system,

Err... For large segments of the market, it certainly is. And I
don't mean the "geek" segment. I mean those who want secure PC
functionality for the Internet and document handling.


Many people would be better off doing some and perhaps the most common
tasks from Linux. Many people would be better off it they *had* to
use Linux all the time. Neither of those statements makes Linux
suitable as a general purpose desktop operating system.


So how do you define a general purpose desktop operating system?

rgds
\SK
--
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -- L. Lang
--
http://www.tajga.org -- (some photos from my travels)
  #32  
Old March 18th 09, 08:19 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Sebastian Kaliszewski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:16:34 -0700 (PDT)) it happened YKhan
wrote in
:

On Mar 15, 2:23 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Totally wrong.
People buy digital cameras, they want to access those from the laptop,
maybe edit the video on it too.
Same for audio devices, headphones via USB, cardreaders for other formats=

,
Install new codecs, new webbrowser versions (security upgrades appear
every day), other adaptors...
There is no limit.
My advice to those, unless you are a nerd and are good in C and a few oth=

er
computer languages, and have thousands of hours time,
do NOT but a Linux version, buy Xp.

Most digital cameras these days simply act as standard USB mass
storage devices. No problem. Editing them isn't a problem either.

Yousuf Khan


Wrong again.
Although my Canon A470 digital camera (for example) can be read as USB mass device, the following applies:
You cannot use any of the Canon utilities that come with the camera as it has no Linux support.


I've yot to find camera specific bundled software which is not total
crap. And there usually is not camera specific stuff like Acrobat Reader...

Canon still makes the best cameras, so why settle for an inferior product.


Simply use good software with that good camera, not some bundled crap.

You cannot even register your camera online with Canon, as that requires their win software package.


[...]
We have to see the reality of things, Linux is hopeless for vendors.
And it is hopless for the user who just wants to actually do things like editing a video,
something that comes standard with Xp and Mac to I think.


What comes standard is crap. What is not crap costs $$$

And that are only a _few_ of the minus points of Linux.

And I should know, I have been using it since version .98, written almost every application for it
you can imagine, including video processing, _myself_, so take it from an expert.

Do I have to write the f*cking editor too?
Do I have to write EVERYTHING I need?
If that is your idea of user friendly go use Linux.


Nonsense.

There are good editors for it, there are picture processing soft for it,
there is video editing software for it as well etc.

--
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -- L. Lang
--
http://www.tajga.org -- (some photos from my travels)
  #33  
Old March 18th 09, 09:26 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 166
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:19:24 +0100) it happened Sebastian
Kaliszewski wrote in
:

Wrong again.
Although my Canon A470 digital camera (for example) can be read as USB mass device, the following applies:
You cannot use any of the Canon utilities that come with the camera as it has no Linux support.


I've yot to find camera specific bundled software which is not total
crap. And there usually is not camera specific stuff like Acrobat Reader...


As far as I have been able to try on other win systems, the soft that
comes with stuff I buy is not bad at all, one more reason to want it to run.
The windows scanner software that came with the Canon scanner I have, is excellent,
if not simply amazing, it came with a character recognition suite too.
There is a lot more.
No driver for that scanner in Linux as of last time I looked, forget about useful programs for it.



Canon still makes the best cameras, so why settle for an inferior product.


Simply use good software with that good camera, not some bundled crap.


You seem to have some negative experiences with bundled software, my experience is that it does most of what
I need.
For example I have several MS windows examples of video editing suits that came with cameras
and other related video stuff.
For free, Expensive if you needed to buy them separately.



You cannot even register your camera online with Canon, as that requires their win software package.


[...]
We have to see the reality of things, Linux is hopeless for vendors.
And it is hopless for the user who just wants to actually do things like editing a video,
something that comes standard with Xp and Mac to I think.


What comes standard is crap. What is not crap costs $$$


That is not correct.



And that are only a _few_ of the minus points of Linux.

And I should know, I have been using it since version .98, written almost every application for it
you can imagine, including video processing, _myself_, so take it from an expert.

Do I have to write the f*cking editor too?
Do I have to write EVERYTHING I need?
If that is your idea of user friendly go use Linux.


Nonsense.

There are good editors for it, there are picture processing soft for it,
there is video editing software for it as well etc.


Yes, I WROTE some of the video processing software,
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/subtitles/index.html
I also contributed to the multi-audio channel DVD burning software in Linux, it was not there when I needed it, proves my point.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/index.html
If I had not done the multi-channel audio, then dvdauthor would still have only one channel likely.
Then I did the subtitle software, the xvt videotext and digital satellite video stream processing too.
Because I needed it and it did not exists.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/satellite/index.html
I also did multimux, as I needed to combine multi channel audio, and it did not exist,
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/multimux-0.2.5.2.tgz
I wrote a subtitle editor xste, because it did not exist in Linux, and many many more program, because
it did not exist in Linux.
And still to this day, anytime I buy a gadget in Linux it does not have support, no drivers,,
and the things you need do not exists.

The module system as used in the kernel makes it impossible to write universal binary solutions,
the Linux folks have gone nuts and use modules for everything even for printing 'Hello world'.
I just did read a tutorial for the new kernel module API that uses printing 'Hello world' as an example.
Forgetting that that should be done in user-space, and not explaining that you should only use modules
if nothing else goes, so the requirements for that, it is a mess. and also the reluctance of some kernel
developers to accept closed source (binary) solutions from vendors, scares vendors way.


--
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -- L. Lang


I want to day: Do not ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidly.
And that goes for Linux.
Have you seen the new Linux logo? As of today it is the ugliest thing .. I have a T-shirt with the old one,
will stay way clear of this.

In fact I ordered an OEM version of windows Xp today, just received an email it is in the mail.
An next I will install this on some harddisk, and download that free Visual C compiler from the MS site.
Not that I do not know how to use it, used it at my job :-)
And then we will see.
I have hundreds of little programs here at home I want to try on that Xp, some games too.

Linux, it is all over.
I will use it where it is convenient, but for the masses it is not.
I have it in my Linksys router, rewrote that so it can be used as webserver from an SDcard, very useful for embedded.
MIPS processor.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/wap54...html#wapserver



--
http://www.tajga.org -- (some photos from my travels)


  #34  
Old March 18th 09, 09:29 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Robert Myers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default Ignorant, anti-Linux trolls SUCK

On Mar 18, 3:12*pm, Sebastian Kaliszewski
wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:06 am, chrisv wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
Linux really isn't a suitable general-purpose desktop system,
Err... *For large segments of the market, it certainly is. *And I
don't mean the "geek" segment. *I mean those who want secure PC
functionality for the Internet and document handling.


Many people would be better off doing some and perhaps the most common
tasks from Linux. *Many people would be better off it they *had* to
use Linux all the time. *Neither of those statements makes Linux
suitable as a general purpose desktop operating system.


So how do you define a general purpose desktop operating system?

It doesn't matter very much how I define a general purpose desktop
operating system. It's how the market that defines it that matters.

If you're willing and able to cope with just *one* operating system,
what will it be? For most end users, Linux is not currently a
plausible answer to that question. There will always be something for
which you need or wish you had a commercial OS.

It's worth remembering that almost no one foresaw the attack of the
killer micros. I flatter myself that I saw it as soon as I had used
Visi-Calc on an Apple II. Whatever it is that corresponds to Visi-
Calc on an Apple II, I haven't seen it yet. Perhaps I'm just getting
old.

The rules could change any time. Wintel is no more immortal than
anything else. Well, there's COBOL and Fortran.

Robert.
  #35  
Old March 19th 09, 06:32 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
chrisv
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 580
Default Ignorant, anti-Linux trolls SUCK

Robert Myers wrote:

chrisv wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
Linux really isn't a suitable general-purpose desktop system,


Err... *For large segments of the market, it certainly is. *And I
don't mean the "geek" segment. *I mean those who want secure PC
functionality for the Internet and document handling.


Many people would be better off doing some and perhaps the most common
tasks from Linux. Many people would be better off it they *had* to
use Linux all the time. Neither of those statements makes Linux
suitable as a general purpose desktop operating system.


You have no idea how unintentionally funny you are being.

*On the other
hand, if you need special Windows-only apps like Quicken or Zombie
Slaughter III, you might want to stay with Windows.

and I can't imagine that it ever will be. *


Your imagination is quite limited.


You have no idea how unintentionally funny you are being.

Two of these groups are hardware groups, so an extended tussle over
windows vs. linux is really off-topic.


Yet you had to add your two cents anyway, didn't you?

  #36  
Old March 19th 09, 06:38 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
chrisv
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 580
Default Ignorant, anti-Linux trolls SUCK

Robert Myers wrote:

It doesn't matter very much how I define a general purpose desktop
operating system. It's how the market that defines it that matters.


But you're pulling the market's definition right out of your rear end,
troll.

If you're willing and able to cope with just *one* operating system,
what will it be? For most end users, Linux is not currently a
plausible answer to that question.


Just because "most" people would not choose a product, does not mean
that it's not "suitable". That's like saying a Corvette isn't
suitable transportation, because, if people had to "cope with just
*one*" vehicle, most would choose something else.

  #37  
Old March 20th 09, 12:34 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Nate Edel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 225
Default Ignorant, anti-Linux trolls SUCK

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips chrisv wrote:
Robert Myers wrote:
It doesn't matter very much how I define a general purpose desktop
operating system. It's how the market that defines it that matters.


Just because "most" people would not choose a product, does not mean
that it's not "suitable". That's like saying a Corvette isn't
suitable transportation, because, if people had to "cope with just
*one*" vehicle, most would choose something else.


A Corvette is not general purpose transportation, though. It's a good
sports car, and an adequate (but somewhat less than fuel efficient) 1-2
person commuter, and an adequate (but somewhat less than fuel efficient) way
to get two people and their golf bags to a golf game.

Being a 2-door, 2-seater pretty much precludes being a general purpose car.

OTOH, Linux isn't a Corvette, at least in most distributions. It's more like
a regular sedan with a manual transmission and a diesel engine. Most people
(in the US; I realize diesels are more popular elsewhere) are going to find
those latter two as limitations, but most people can get used to them, and
for those who are used to them, neither one limits the general utility, and
both have the potential for significantly improving the performance.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."
  #38  
Old March 20th 09, 12:41 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Nate Edel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 225
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Sebastian Kaliszewski wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Although my Canon A470 digital camera (for example) can be read as USB
mass device, the following applies: You cannot use any of the Canon
utilities that come with the camera as it has no Linux support.


I've yot to find camera specific bundled software which is not total
crap.


Digital Photo Pro which comes with the EOS Cameras for doing RAW conversions
isn't crap. It's not as good as Adobe's Camera Raw plugin for Photoshop,
but it's significantly better than any of the free alternatives.

Then again, I'm fairly sure it runs under Wine or at least Crossover, if you
absolutely have to use it.

Canon still makes the best cameras, so why settle for an inferior
product.


Simply use good software with that good camera, not some bundled crap.


Which doesn't require a driver; popping the card out and putting it into a
card reader is much quicker.

Even if you want to read it directly, it looks like it will work with
Gphoto2.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."
  #39  
Old March 20th 09, 12:45 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Nate Edel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 225
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Jan Panteltje wrote:
As far as I have been able to try on other win systems, the soft that
comes with stuff I buy is not bad at all, one more reason to want it to
run. The windows scanner software that came with the Canon scanner I
have, is excellent, if not simply amazing, it came with a character
recognition suite too. There is a lot more. No driver for that scanner
in Linux as of last time I looked, forget about useful programs for it.


Did you even try SANE? Their support for recent Canon scanners isn't super,
but it's not awful:
http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?bus=usb
Several distros include this OOTB.

For that matter, there are a couple of free/open source OCR packages.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."
  #40  
Old March 20th 09, 01:22 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default MS and Linux both have their plusses and minusses

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:41:26 -0700) it happened
(Nate Edel) wrote in :

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Sebastian Kaliszewski wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Although my Canon A470 digital camera (for example) can be read as USB
mass device, the following applies: You cannot use any of the Canon
utilities that come with the camera as it has no Linux support.


I've yot to find camera specific bundled software which is not total
crap.


Digital Photo Pro which comes with the EOS Cameras for doing RAW conversions
isn't crap. It's not as good as Adobe's Camera Raw plugin for Photoshop,
but it's significantly better than any of the free alternatives.


Exactly.

And it is the same story for every other thing:
For my Epson printer there is a nice layout program for directly printing color to DVDs.
It is very easy to use, fast, and crashes in Wine emulator, does not do I/O
to the printer either in Wine, and Gimp does not have its features,
and Gimp is a pain to use most of the time.



Then again, I'm fairly sure it runs under Wine or at least Crossover, if you
absolutely have to use it.


Not one single driver I have tried to install in wine works _NOT ONE_.
Same for running virtualiser software, it is annoying slow, dual boot Linux plus
windows is the only option.
A problem if you have the same PC up as a server (can not just go offline).
So you need 2 computers, one for Linux and one for whatever MS software, or maybe even 3.

Wow, I have got Apache2, bind, and proftp working on the eeePC in Linux,
so I can have the eeePC as web -, name -, and ftp server.
Now I can use the real server to play with the new Xp.
Then perhaps make an SDcard with Xp that I can boot from on the eeePC,
or maybe I will just register the big server with XP.
I have now got bind, and Apache for Xp downloaded too, so could run the server in XP,
but what about the firewall (some thousand entries).
New MS web browser is out, and the google browser is only for available for windows too.


Let us take an other example:
Nokia has this nice software to communicate with my mobile phone.
I could not even download it with firefox on Linux from the Ducth nokia site: 'Wrong OS' message.
Now that never stopped me, so I have it now, but anyways it will not run in Linux.
Same for every other thing you want to connect to your Linux computer, no drivers,
no application software, no support from the vendor.





Canon still makes the best cameras, so why settle for an inferior
product.


Simply use good software with that good camera, not some bundled crap.


Which doesn't require a driver; popping the card out and putting it into a
card reader is much quicker.


Sometimes... There are circumstances where you do not want to open the camera.
With cellphones it is even more so, you lose you time settings,
as you also have to take the battery out.



Even if you want to read it directly, it looks like it will work with
Gphoto2.


Gphoto2, I have used it with several digital cameras, uses an universal protocol
to communicate with the digital cameras, for the A470 you can only do:
ptpcam --get-all-files
With my Canon A470 for example, no other command is supported (all propriety).

So, we have to see the reality of it.
Linux has its nice, nice for servers, oh, and I run a mail server on it too,
camera server (can see my house fro anywhere in the world, ssh connection,,m
telnetd, fully remote controlled, can control my house lights, even the colors (LED
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/col_pic/index.html
BUT ONLY BECAUSE I WROTE ALL THAT STUFF MYSELF

control the heating, anything... home automation works here.
My own designs.
But if I go out and buy something, I need MS windows so I can work with it.
Because of that Linux is only for nerds.
You got to be realistic, some people seem sort of blind to that.
Anybody who has any real experience will know the plusses and minus of both MS software
and Linux.
Both have their goods, and you need BOTH, or at least MS if you want to go with the masses.

The way Linux works now it cannot possibly be supported by vendors of stuff that
interacts with PCs.
So they don't.

 




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