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Dvorak Likes Linux



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 09, 03:18 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
YKhan
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Posts: 266
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

I've had it permanently installed on my desktop since version 5.10,
too. Meanwhile it's been permanently installed on my laptop since 8.10
(after I upgraded the disk to 160GB). I now find myself using mainly
Ubuntu on the laptop, but the desktop still needs a few apps running
on Windows -- that'll be fixed soon enough once I figure the
Virtualbox out. So John C. welcome to the party.

Yousuf Khan

Dvorak Likes Linux - Lab Notes by ExtremeTech
"Every so often I take a stab at Linux, to see exactly what I like and
do not like about the OS. Many of its problems, for me, stem from its
inability to run on my overloaded hardware, or the occasional driver
that makes the OS impossible to use without hand-tweaking something or
other. That said, I seriously like the Ubuntu 8.10 implementation and
will now install it permanently on my latest machines. It's a winner.
"
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2342869,00.asp
  #2  
Old March 13th 09, 01:28 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 166
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT)) it happened YKhan
wrote in
:

I've had it permanently installed on my desktop since version 5.10,
too. Meanwhile it's been permanently installed on my laptop since 8.10
(after I upgraded the disk to 160GB). I now find myself using mainly
Ubuntu on the laptop, but the desktop still needs a few apps running
on Windows -- that'll be fixed soon enough once I figure the
Virtualbox out. So John C. welcome to the party.

Yousuf Khan

Dvorak Likes Linux - Lab Notes by ExtremeTech
"Every so often I take a stab at Linux, to see exactly what I like and
do not like about the OS. Many of its problems, for me, stem from its
inability to run on my overloaded hardware, or the occasional driver
that makes the OS impossible to use without hand-tweaking something or
other. That said, I seriously like the Ubuntu 8.10 implementation and
will now install it permanently on my latest machines. It's a winner.
"
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2342869,00.asp


A little bit of caution against Linux.
As a 12 year Linux users, well from SLS distro kernel-0.98??? or so,
maybe more then 12 years now, lately I have become a bit - let's say
'****ed' with the Linux stuff.
Mainly because things continuously break due to required 'upgrading' of packages,
and also because of market protection (and that is related to my first point)
by the various distros,
and I need to point out that I've read bubuntu's boss is a billionaire...
is he pushing their products....
I have never tried bubuntoe and very likely never will.
In retrospect the best distro I ever had was Slackware.
RatHead was the first with using incompatibility to bind people to
their systems, Suse was good but is having sex with MS, and is there sabotage going on?
And the kernel is getting different every release, filesystems break (ext4),
and good things are not put into - and bad things are put into that kernel.
Systems are changed from version X.x to Y.z so nothing works anymore, gnu
software, that was some sort of sign for 'it will work', breaks, it is a MESS.
All that to make a commercial product so you have to buy a complete distro.
If you ever need to upgrade, then you need to buy new hardware too.
Business has discovered Linux.
Time for something new.
And this from somebody who is still pro-linux.
You can quote me on this [if you work for MS also quote that MS sucks even more].

Maybe my spellchecker is right, it want to replace 'distro' with 'bistro'.
the objective should be: An OS that is reliable, simple, small, fast, has
no data loss, and interface standards / APIs that stay the same or at least
compatible over many generations.
The objective cannot be to change everything every version and then also for every
version of every distro, maybe better run a bistro.

Copyright Jan Panteltje 2009-always.
All rights reserved. Nothing of this can be used without quoting the source.


  #3  
Old March 13th 09, 03:52 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Yousuf Khan
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Posts: 914
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

Jan Panteltje wrote:
A little bit of caution against Linux.
As a 12 year Linux users, well from SLS distro kernel-0.98??? or so,
maybe more then 12 years now, lately I have become a bit - let's say
'****ed' with the Linux stuff.
Mainly because things continuously break due to required 'upgrading' of packages,
and also because of market protection (and that is related to my first point)
by the various distros,
and I need to point out that I've read bubuntu's boss is a billionaire...
is he pushing their products....
I have never tried bubuntoe and very likely never will.


Is Bubuntu yet another new distro based on Ubuntu? They already have
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Medibuntu, etc. I'm thinking Bubuntu is a
typo on your part, but you can never tell these days. :-)

In retrospect the best distro I ever had was Slackware.
RatHead was the first with using incompatibility to bind people to
their systems, Suse was good but is having sex with MS, and is there sabotage going on?
And the kernel is getting different every release, filesystems break (ext4),
and good things are not put into - and bad things are put into that kernel.
Systems are changed from version X.x to Y.z so nothing works anymore, gnu
software, that was some sort of sign for 'it will work', breaks, it is a MESS.
All that to make a commercial product so you have to buy a complete distro.


Well, I have settled on Ubuntu myself. I'm pretty comfortable with it. I
do dislike some of the changes they're making which break previous
methods of doing things, but that's just something I'm used to from
years of Windows upgrades. Everything I learned in Windows 95 had to be
thrown out with Windows 98, then again with 2000, and then again with
XP, and now with Vista.

Yousuf Khan
  #4  
Old March 13th 09, 03:56 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Tom Lake
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Posts: 418
Default Dvorak Likes Linux


Is Bubuntu yet another new distro based on Ubuntu? They already have
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Medibuntu, etc. I'm thinking Bubuntu is a
typo on your part, but you can never tell these days. :-)


No typo:

http://torrents-search-engine.com/Bu...are_96145.html

Tom Lake
  #5  
Old March 13th 09, 04:21 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 166
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On a sunny day (Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:52:29 -0400) it happened Yousuf Khan
wrote in :

Jan Panteltje wrote:
A little bit of caution against Linux.
As a 12 year Linux users, well from SLS distro kernel-0.98??? or so,
maybe more then 12 years now, lately I have become a bit - let's say
'****ed' with the Linux stuff.
Mainly because things continuously break due to required 'upgrading' of packages,
and also because of market protection (and that is related to my first point)
by the various distros,
and I need to point out that I've read bubuntu's boss is a billionaire...
is he pushing their products....
I have never tried bubuntoe and very likely never will.


Is Bubuntu yet another new distro based on Ubuntu? They already have
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Medibuntu, etc. I'm thinking Bubuntu is a
typo on your part, but you can never tell these days. :-)


Na, I invented 'bubunto (toe) as to indicate the endless variations that will be...

In retrospect the best distro I ever had was Slackware.
RatHead was the first with using incompatibility to bind people to
their systems, Suse was good but is having sex with MS, and is there sabotage going on?
And the kernel is getting different every release, filesystems break (ext4),
and good things are not put into - and bad things are put into that kernel.
Systems are changed from version X.x to Y.z so nothing works anymore, gnu
software, that was some sort of sign for 'it will work', breaks, it is a MESS.
All that to make a commercial product so you have to buy a complete distro.


Well, I have settled on Ubuntu myself. I'm pretty comfortable with it. I
do dislike some of the changes they're making which break previous
methods of doing things, but that's just something I'm used to from
years of Windows upgrades. Everything I learned in Windows 95 had to be
thrown out with Windows 98, then again with 2000, and then again with
XP, and now with Vista.

Yousuf Khan


I dunno, I had a free win32 type compiler that I used some times to make simple GUIs, I think
it worked in all older version, but am not sure anymore, so long ago.
I just tried to make a Nokia bluetooth headset work with the Asus eeePC (for Skype).
Not only are many of the instructions on the net wrong, the whole bluetooth thing (bluez)
was changed from version 2.? to 3.? to use dbus, but no indication how to add a PIN for paring
the headset.
Finally found a hint on wiki.eeeuser.com where to put the pin, and got the thing to pair,
and can connect to it, next should be how to send and get sound from it.
This already took several hours,.
You cannot possibly expect 'normal' people to go through all that, mess up their eeePC in the
process, and be happy with Linux.
Why change API? I dunno.
The alsa (sound) module needed to pull the sound thing off, needs to be compiled on the eeepC,
so it matches that kernel... No way, although I have gcc on it, is that going to work.
Will look into that some other time, and the same for using other non-bluetooth stuff..
that is what normal users should be spared from, and even avid programmers, it
is wasting thousands of hours of every bodies time.....
The plus: Now I am expert on bluetooth, and yes I consider looking at the alsa sources and writing my own solution.
But that is not how it should be.
That way Linux stays for nerds.
We see a multitude of small power full OSs in embedded gadgets appearing,
from Garmin with their own OS, to Symbian in phones, etc....
Linux is getting a bit top heavy, it starts falling over, better run before it does.
Too much is getting poured upon it.
  #6  
Old March 14th 09, 07:21 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Sylvia Else
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Posts: 20
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2342869,00.asp

"You should also note that almost all of the newest hardware coming out
has Linux support."

I think that's overstating it, and figuring out whether the hardware one
intends to buy is supported can be a tortuous process. Life is not made
any easier by the fact that some manufacturers will completely change
the design of a board and just change the revision number.

Sylvia.
  #7  
Old March 14th 09, 04:21 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
YKhan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 266
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On Mar 13, 11:21*am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
I dunno, I had a free win32 type compiler that I used some times to make simple GUIs, I think
it worked in all older version, but am not sure anymore, so long ago.
I just tried to make a Nokia bluetooth headset work with the Asus eeePC (for Skype).
Not only are many of the instructions on the net wrong, the whole bluetooth thing (bluez)
was changed from version 2.? to 3.? to use dbus, but no indication how to add a PIN for paring
the headset.
Finally found a hint on wiki.eeeuser.com where to put the pin, and got the thing to pair,
and can connect to it, next should be how to send and get sound from it.


Actually, I've had a similar problem with a bluetooth adapter that I
just can't seem to get a driver for. I assume the solution to this
will be for an OEM to package a bluetooth adapter already configured
and known to work with Linux. We are heading towards an era where PCs
won't be nearly so customized, except from out of the factory. This
can only help Linux, when the factory puts stuff in that is guaranteed
to work.

We won't be adding nearly so much stuff into our PCs from the
aftermarket.

Yousuf Khan
  #8  
Old March 14th 09, 05:52 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT)) it happened YKhan
wrote in
:

On Mar 13, 11:21*am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
I dunno, I had a free win32 type compiler that I used some times to make =

simple GUIs, I think
it worked in all older version, but am not sure anymore, so long ago.
I just tried to make a Nokia bluetooth headset work with the Asus eeePC (=

for Skype).
Not only are many of the instructions on the net wrong, the whole bluetoo=

th thing (bluez)
was changed from version 2.? to 3.? to use dbus, but no indication how to=

add a PIN for paring
the headset.
Finally found a hint on wiki.eeeuser.com where to put the pin, and got th=

e thing to pair,
and can connect to it, next should be how to send and get sound from it.


Actually, I've had a similar problem with a bluetooth adapter that I
just can't seem to get a driver for. I assume the solution to this
will be for an OEM to package a bluetooth adapter already configured
and known to work with Linux. We are heading towards an era where PCs
won't be nearly so customized, except from out of the factory. This
can only help Linux, when the factory puts stuff in that is guaranteed
to work.

We won't be adding nearly so much stuff into our PCs from the
aftermarket.

Yousuf Khan


Well, I dunno, I bought a Trust bluetooth USB dongle to use in the eeePC.
It came in a plastic sales thing that states 'drivers for Vista, Xp, and win9x.
I only have win 98, decided to try the CD, and it tells me only Vista and Xp...
Looked at the CD, there was a 9x directory, but 98 SE does not like those files.
So.. into the eeePC, and after lots of trying it worked.
We will -always- have USB gadgets, for example I have a Huawei USB modem,
that worked out of the box (GPRS HSDPA) on the eeePC.
But the problem is this with the bluetooth adapter:
For MS windows, you get drivers for Vista and Xp, plus nice utilities to
send and receive sound, and I suppose it works.
For Linux the tendency seems to be to make modules for everything.
Now those modules need to be compiled with the right kernel version.
And there are a zillion kernel versions, and I think the module even needs to be
compiled with the right gcc version.
Result: Companies cannot supply 1000 different modules, so forget about anything working.
People cannot compile modules as they have no kernel sources and headers installed, and likely
no gcc too, so Linux is hopeless to sell things for that just work, it
all takes a computer nerd and oceans of time.
So what do people do? They need some functionality, and buy the [eee]PC with Xp...
And their stuff works.
This is the reality of it, and Linux will have to change that stupid module habit
to ever make it for the masses.
  #9  
Old March 14th 09, 09:06 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Robert Myers
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Posts: 606
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On Mar 13, 8:28*am, Jan Panteltje

Time for something new.


Maybe you'd be happier in the world of OpenVMS: extremely stable OS,
authoritarian vendor and user community (no democratic chaos), endless
supply of super-cheap hardware (what to do with all those Itanium
boxes that fix into such a teensy little niche), open source code for
non-commercial uses.

Or you can fork Linux any time or any place you like.

Or you can pick up any of the ambitious OS efforts that have been
started and abandoned at places like CMU and MIT.

If you're going to count on someone else to do it for you, you have to
put up with whatever *they* decide. Has nothing to do with
capitalism, socialism, Marxism, imperialism, or even that the world of
software has a special corner on human foibles.

Personally, for all the aggravation, I don't see anything in the near
future but Linux (as dominated by IBM and RedHat) and Windows (because
of all those proprietary encoders).

Who knows. Maybe ARM will kill off both x86 and its co-dependent
OS's. Only time will tell.

In the meanwhile, I'm really happy with the LInux and Open Source
Communities (pax, RMS), and I can tolerate Windows. I really don't
think I could do better.

Robert.
  #10  
Old March 14th 09, 11:15 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 166
Default Dvorak Likes Linux

On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
Myers wrote in
:

On Mar 13, 8:28*am, Jan Panteltje

Time for something new.


Maybe you'd be happier in the world of OpenVMS: extremely stable OS,
authoritarian vendor and user community (no democratic chaos), endless
supply of super-cheap hardware (what to do with all those Itanium
boxes that fix into such a teensy little niche), open source code for
non-commercial uses.

Or you can fork Linux any time or any place you like.


Long time ago I wrote my own CP/M clone..
Without ever having [had] access to a CP/M system.
Only had some floppies with CP/M source files from the CP/M user group, so I could test.
Of course I designed the hardware too (Z80 based), it is actually all on the net:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
Then I had the software toolworks C/80 compiler running on it,
wrote a windowing multitasker in 8080 asm for it, then the thing was full.
Designed and build a soundcard, floppy interface, video card, IO card,
EPROM programmer, packet radio card, RAMdisk card, etc.. for that.
Wrote all the software, sound editor too.
Now it did not have a TCP stack, but it did have a serial port
and was online with that.
So, basically I have done everything :-) the rest I did later in Linux.
So, for me, it would be very easy to type down my own multitasker and
the apps I already have, question of porting:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html



Or you can pick up any of the ambitious OS efforts that have been
started and abandoned at places like CMU and MIT.


Well, why bother.


If you're going to count on someone else to do it for you, you have to
put up with whatever *they* decide. Has nothing to do with
capitalism, socialism, Marxism, imperialism, or even that the world of
software has a special corner on human foibles.

Personally, for all the aggravation, I don't see anything in the near
future but Linux (as dominated by IBM and RedHat) and Windows (because
of all those proprietary encoders).


Well, I was just looking if I should buy a Nokia N95 and write some apps for Symbian.
LOL.
Just checking the neighbourhood so to speak, I do not like Java though.



Who knows. Maybe ARM will kill off both x86 and its co-dependent
OS's. Only time will tell.


Perhaps, with all code in C or java, the processor is not that important anymore.



In the meanwhile, I'm really happy with the LInux and Open Source
Communities (pax, RMS), and I can tolerate Windows. I really don't
think I could do better.

Robert.


I tend to set targets that are difficult to meet.
But I also want to make VERY CLEAR that Linux is getting just as bloated as MS.
Some time ago, some a professor, who once was very anti-Linux, released a new version of his OS.
Maybe I should look it up, do you know who I mean ;-)?

 




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