If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
network backup solutions for business
Hey.
I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Thanks. Happy Holidays |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
And another question,
If ntbackup.exe comes with Windows, why do people bother to purchase a backup solution software if one comes with the os. NTbackup seems quite similiar except i don't thinkit supports the ms exchange server or sql server backups. ? Thanks. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Hey. I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Thanks. Happy Holidays |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Alley Alian" wrote in message ... And another question, If ntbackup.exe comes with Windows, why do people bother to purchase a backup solution software if one comes with the os. NTbackup seems quite similiar except i don't thinkit supports the ms exchange server or sql server backups. ? Because ntbackup is not robust. It does include such features such as the ability to back up open files, the centralized management of backup hardware and policies. If you have more than about 20 machines using ntbackup, it becomes unmanageable. Plus, there is no facility for special application backups (Oracle, Exchange, etc.) Commercial backup products also offer features such as backup consolidation, multi-streaming, etc. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Hey. I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? Depends on the environment, but I've never worked anywhere where a company backs up workstations. Space is allocated on a centralized server or NAS device for each user and application, and that where they keep all the stuff they want backed up. The only exception to this is laptops, where the users have only intermittent access to the network. Even then, most places I know of put it on the user to back up their stuff (not necessarily a good policy). The "default" backup schedule at most sites I've worked is weekly full backups, with daily incrementals, which is really overkill for most sites. What really should be done depends on the volatility of the data (how much changes in a given day). Most user data is about 1% volatile on a daily basis, in my experience. That is, for every 100 MB on a server, only about 1 MB changes every day. Of course, that really depends on the environment. Sites with strict quotas or special applications have much higher volatility. The reason for doing weekly fulls, daily incrementals is to minimize the number of media required for a restore. If you do fulls on Sunday, and incrementals after that, and you want to do a complete restore of a filesystem on the next Saturday, you need Sunday through Friday's backups. If you use the same scheme only with monthly fulls, you could need 30 pieces of media. If a site has a problem doing full backups on a weekly basis, they can usually get away with monthly fulls/weekly differentials/daily incrementals. You touched on an important point. The backup schedules should never be decided by the system administrator. Backup schedules are determined by the criticality of the data and the amount of resources (money) you can throw at protecting those data. As such, that is solely as business decision. The system administrator should be involved (and even decide) on the technical aspects of the implementation, but it should never be left to technical personnel to try to decide which data is how important. And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Again, it depends on the environment and application. It's pretty rare to see more than 1000 users with their home directories on a single Windoze box. CIFS and NFS are applications that a lot of companies have pretty well tuned. I only see Windows file servers at small sites where they do it out of convenience. But applications like Exchange have definite performance limitations, and one box can only effectively serve a finite number of users. Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? Marketing fluff. Backup Exec is low-end product that a lot of end users and small shops like to use. And fortune 500 companies have lots of small divisions. So if you have 100 data centers in your company, and 1 of them is using Backup Exec to manage Exchange backups, you get put on that list, even if the majority of the data centers in your company use another product. And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Depends on the application. Most companies license by server. So if you have 500 users that are on one server all you need is one client license (plus the backup server license, and whatever else hardware specific type stuff you need). The sales rep would be able to explain that to you. --paul |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Awesome info
In the business world, do the restores only take place when there's a disk failure, or do they do restores when maybe the user accidently shift-deletes the file ? And are the restores usually image based restores, or do the system adminstrators reinstall the operating system from scratch, and use the backup software to restore the settings on the system and to rebuild the folder directory structure and network permissions for the data which was backed up ? And how often do people usually run into having to do restores on there file servers ? My harddrive died after about 3 years, but it was one of those lower quality models. peace. "Paul" wrote in message news:NVrGb.13561$Fg.6375@lakeread01... "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... And another question, If ntbackup.exe comes with Windows, why do people bother to purchase a backup solution software if one comes with the os. NTbackup seems quite similiar except i don't thinkit supports the ms exchange server or sql server backups. ? Because ntbackup is not robust. It does include such features such as the ability to back up open files, the centralized management of backup hardware and policies. If you have more than about 20 machines using ntbackup, it becomes unmanageable. Plus, there is no facility for special application backups (Oracle, Exchange, etc.) Commercial backup products also offer features such as backup consolidation, multi-streaming, etc. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Hey. I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? Depends on the environment, but I've never worked anywhere where a company backs up workstations. Space is allocated on a centralized server or NAS device for each user and application, and that where they keep all the stuff they want backed up. The only exception to this is laptops, where the users have only intermittent access to the network. Even then, most places I know of put it on the user to back up their stuff (not necessarily a good policy). The "default" backup schedule at most sites I've worked is weekly full backups, with daily incrementals, which is really overkill for most sites. What really should be done depends on the volatility of the data (how much changes in a given day). Most user data is about 1% volatile on a daily basis, in my experience. That is, for every 100 MB on a server, only about 1 MB changes every day. Of course, that really depends on the environment. Sites with strict quotas or special applications have much higher volatility. The reason for doing weekly fulls, daily incrementals is to minimize the number of media required for a restore. If you do fulls on Sunday, and incrementals after that, and you want to do a complete restore of a filesystem on the next Saturday, you need Sunday through Friday's backups. If you use the same scheme only with monthly fulls, you could need 30 pieces of media. If a site has a problem doing full backups on a weekly basis, they can usually get away with monthly fulls/weekly differentials/daily incrementals. You touched on an important point. The backup schedules should never be decided by the system administrator. Backup schedules are determined by the criticality of the data and the amount of resources (money) you can throw at protecting those data. As such, that is solely as business decision. The system administrator should be involved (and even decide) on the technical aspects of the implementation, but it should never be left to technical personnel to try to decide which data is how important. And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Again, it depends on the environment and application. It's pretty rare to see more than 1000 users with their home directories on a single Windoze box. CIFS and NFS are applications that a lot of companies have pretty well tuned. I only see Windows file servers at small sites where they do it out of convenience. But applications like Exchange have definite performance limitations, and one box can only effectively serve a finite number of users. Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? Marketing fluff. Backup Exec is low-end product that a lot of end users and small shops like to use. And fortune 500 companies have lots of small divisions. So if you have 100 data centers in your company, and 1 of them is using Backup Exec to manage Exchange backups, you get put on that list, even if the majority of the data centers in your company use another product. And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Depends on the application. Most companies license by server. So if you have 500 users that are on one server all you need is one client license (plus the backup server license, and whatever else hardware specific type stuff you need). The sales rep would be able to explain that to you. --paul |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
On the business side of things, if you just pay the backup software company
say 750 $ for your 1 server that is a file server for hundreds of employees, how do the backup companies manage to make money ? ? Or is Veritas just that common where they sell to 1000's of the small business around the world ? Thanks. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Awesome info In the business world, do the restores only take place when there's a disk failure, or do they do restores when maybe the user accidently shift-deletes the file ? And are the restores usually image based restores, or do the system adminstrators reinstall the operating system from scratch, and use the backup software to restore the settings on the system and to rebuild the folder directory structure and network permissions for the data which was backed up ? And how often do people usually run into having to do restores on there file servers ? My harddrive died after about 3 years, but it was one of those lower quality models. peace. "Paul" wrote in message news:NVrGb.13561$Fg.6375@lakeread01... "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... And another question, If ntbackup.exe comes with Windows, why do people bother to purchase a backup solution software if one comes with the os. NTbackup seems quite similiar except i don't thinkit supports the ms exchange server or sql server backups. ? Because ntbackup is not robust. It does include such features such as the ability to back up open files, the centralized management of backup hardware and policies. If you have more than about 20 machines using ntbackup, it becomes unmanageable. Plus, there is no facility for special application backups (Oracle, Exchange, etc.) Commercial backup products also offer features such as backup consolidation, multi-streaming, etc. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Hey. I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? Depends on the environment, but I've never worked anywhere where a company backs up workstations. Space is allocated on a centralized server or NAS device for each user and application, and that where they keep all the stuff they want backed up. The only exception to this is laptops, where the users have only intermittent access to the network. Even then, most places I know of put it on the user to back up their stuff (not necessarily a good policy). The "default" backup schedule at most sites I've worked is weekly full backups, with daily incrementals, which is really overkill for most sites. What really should be done depends on the volatility of the data (how much changes in a given day). Most user data is about 1% volatile on a daily basis, in my experience. That is, for every 100 MB on a server, only about 1 MB changes every day. Of course, that really depends on the environment. Sites with strict quotas or special applications have much higher volatility. The reason for doing weekly fulls, daily incrementals is to minimize the number of media required for a restore. If you do fulls on Sunday, and incrementals after that, and you want to do a complete restore of a filesystem on the next Saturday, you need Sunday through Friday's backups. If you use the same scheme only with monthly fulls, you could need 30 pieces of media. If a site has a problem doing full backups on a weekly basis, they can usually get away with monthly fulls/weekly differentials/daily incrementals. You touched on an important point. The backup schedules should never be decided by the system administrator. Backup schedules are determined by the criticality of the data and the amount of resources (money) you can throw at protecting those data. As such, that is solely as business decision. The system administrator should be involved (and even decide) on the technical aspects of the implementation, but it should never be left to technical personnel to try to decide which data is how important. And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Again, it depends on the environment and application. It's pretty rare to see more than 1000 users with their home directories on a single Windoze box. CIFS and NFS are applications that a lot of companies have pretty well tuned. I only see Windows file servers at small sites where they do it out of convenience. But applications like Exchange have definite performance limitations, and one box can only effectively serve a finite number of users. Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? Marketing fluff. Backup Exec is low-end product that a lot of end users and small shops like to use. And fortune 500 companies have lots of small divisions. So if you have 100 data centers in your company, and 1 of them is using Backup Exec to manage Exchange backups, you get put on that list, even if the majority of the data centers in your company use another product. And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Depends on the application. Most companies license by server. So if you have 500 users that are on one server all you need is one client license (plus the backup server license, and whatever else hardware specific type stuff you need). The sales rep would be able to explain that to you. --paul |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Restores can be due to disk failure or human error. To be sure, the most
common restore is necessitated by human error rather than disk failure, as most people protect their data from disk failure with RAID. But that doesn't mean that whole partitions don't get blown away on a regular basis by accident. There are "bare metal" options for a lot of commercial backup products. I don't see them widely implemented because: (1) most places can have a server rebuilt with an OS very quickly without a backup product and (2) for windows servers, the hardware has to be identical in order for a bare metal restore to work. Bare metal restore usually appeals to manager types who are attracted to the idea that a whole server can be rebuilt from backups. But in reality, a well-drilled technician should be able to have a server rebuilt in less than an hour, and a bare metal restore product won't speed things up. If they need recovery times of less than that, I tell them they should look at cold-sparing servers or clustering the application. I see a fair number of sites where the manager buys the bare metal option, and the technicians completely ignore the existence of the product, and continue to use Ghost, jumpstart, kickstart, or whatever they use to build their servers. The frequency of restores depends heavily on the environment and the expectations of the users. As for the question about money, there's plenty of money in backup software. While the server software for a typical product may only cost $500-$1500, it's usually a stripped down app that will only work with at most a small tape stacker. Options such as support for larger libraries, disk based virtual tape libraries, open file managers, agents for special applications such as Oracle, SQL, and Exchange, SAN support, etc quickly drive the price up. Plus, most businesses purchase maintenance plans where they get support and upgrades for 18% or 25% of the retail price each year (depending on the level of support). This creates a very attractive revenue stream for the SW manufacturer. For example, I'm deploying an unnamed backup package for a customer that only has a total of 50 servers, but paid over $500,000 for the software because of all the options he wanted. The customer I mentioned will pay the company $1 million over the course of 4 years. More, if they decide to hike the retail price of the software. And it should be noted that once a backup product is in place, it usually takes repeated failure of the software for the organization to be motivated to replace it. --paul "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Awesome info In the business world, do the restores only take place when there's a disk failure, or do they do restores when maybe the user accidently shift-deletes the file ? And are the restores usually image based restores, or do the system adminstrators reinstall the operating system from scratch, and use the backup software to restore the settings on the system and to rebuild the folder directory structure and network permissions for the data which was backed up ? And how often do people usually run into having to do restores on there file servers ? My harddrive died after about 3 years, but it was one of those lower quality models. peace. "Paul" wrote in message news:NVrGb.13561$Fg.6375@lakeread01... "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... And another question, If ntbackup.exe comes with Windows, why do people bother to purchase a backup solution software if one comes with the os. NTbackup seems quite similiar except i don't thinkit supports the ms exchange server or sql server backups. ? Because ntbackup is not robust. It does include such features such as the ability to back up open files, the centralized management of backup hardware and policies. If you have more than about 20 machines using ntbackup, it becomes unmanageable. Plus, there is no facility for special application backups (Oracle, Exchange, etc.) Commercial backup products also offer features such as backup consolidation, multi-streaming, etc. "Alley Alian" wrote in message ... Hey. I had a few questions, about backup at companies. I'm just guessing on this, because I've never worked at a big corporation, but for backups, do the employees of the company usually save all critical data on the network server under the folder name that they have access to ? Then whenever a new employee comes in the system adminstor makes them a new folder to store there critical data ? Then nightly or how ever often the system adminstraotors desire, you back up the server to tape ? Incremental or full backups ? Depends on the environment, but I've never worked anywhere where a company backs up workstations. Space is allocated on a centralized server or NAS device for each user and application, and that where they keep all the stuff they want backed up. The only exception to this is laptops, where the users have only intermittent access to the network. Even then, most places I know of put it on the user to back up their stuff (not necessarily a good policy). The "default" backup schedule at most sites I've worked is weekly full backups, with daily incrementals, which is really overkill for most sites. What really should be done depends on the volatility of the data (how much changes in a given day). Most user data is about 1% volatile on a daily basis, in my experience. That is, for every 100 MB on a server, only about 1 MB changes every day. Of course, that really depends on the environment. Sites with strict quotas or special applications have much higher volatility. The reason for doing weekly fulls, daily incrementals is to minimize the number of media required for a restore. If you do fulls on Sunday, and incrementals after that, and you want to do a complete restore of a filesystem on the next Saturday, you need Sunday through Friday's backups. If you use the same scheme only with monthly fulls, you could need 30 pieces of media. If a site has a problem doing full backups on a weekly basis, they can usually get away with monthly fulls/weekly differentials/daily incrementals. You touched on an important point. The backup schedules should never be decided by the system administrator. Backup schedules are determined by the criticality of the data and the amount of resources (money) you can throw at protecting those data. As such, that is solely as business decision. The system administrator should be involved (and even decide) on the technical aspects of the implementation, but it should never be left to technical personnel to try to decide which data is how important. And another question, I think i have the answer but not sure. I heard of companies buying a bunch of a Windows 2003 servers, I think they do this because maybe the server only handles say 1000 employees ? So if you have a bunch of servers you can handle more employees to run and save data of the server ? Again, it depends on the environment and application. It's pretty rare to see more than 1000 users with their home directories on a single Windoze box. CIFS and NFS are applications that a lot of companies have pretty well tuned. I only see Windows file servers at small sites where they do it out of convenience. But applications like Exchange have definite performance limitations, and one box can only effectively serve a finite number of users. Then I was reading on Veritas website that 99 % of all the fortune 500 companies run Backup Exec for there backup storage resources.. Why does Veritas have such a monopoly on the industry ? Is it really that good of a product ? Marketing fluff. Backup Exec is low-end product that a lot of end users and small shops like to use. And fortune 500 companies have lots of small divisions. So if you have 100 data centers in your company, and 1 of them is using Backup Exec to manage Exchange backups, you get put on that list, even if the majority of the data centers in your company use another product. And finally about licenecing, this whole part i'm confused on about as well, do the backup software work similiar to how windows licensees there products. You buy a licensee to back up 25 users critical data, you get more employees you by a licensee that supports backup for 50 users, etc.. ? Depends on the application. Most companies license by server. So if you have 500 users that are on one server all you need is one client license (plus the backup server license, and whatever else hardware specific type stuff you need). The sales rep would be able to explain that to you. --paul |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CUV-4X problems with Network card and Audio using Windows 98SE | LDL | Asus Motherboards | 9 | June 6th 04 04:50 AM |
NTI Drive Backup Behavior | Earl F. Parrish | Cdr | 0 | January 13th 04 02:11 AM |
BackUp MyPC: How to Slow Down the CD Burner? | JamesDad | Cdr | 5 | October 29th 03 04:10 AM |
Personal Disaster Recovery and Backup Solutions | John McCabe | Storage & Hardrives | 4 | September 19th 03 11:07 AM |