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#21
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:46:38 GMT, gaffo wrote:
JK wrote: There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly, although some people want to run the latest and highest performing software, which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for most applications. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Talk about Beachfront property! How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?.................... no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!! 386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996. 64-bitness will remain irrelivant WRT to the home user for another 8 yrs or so. (using the Opteron initial release time). and yes - I beleive this is a realistic timeframe for "Joe Ave" (i.e. the mainstream). I really don't think this is an accurate time-frame this time around. This are already very different. It took 6 years for the very first 32-bit x86 operating system to be released after the 386 came to market, this time around we had the first 64-bit OS for the Opteron only 6 months after it's release. Win95 brought the first 32-bit (err, kinda) OS to the mainstream desktop 9 years after the release of the 386, now we're probably looking at about 2 years after the Opteron release for WinXP x64 to come out. On the application site, there are already TONS of open-source programs ported to 64-bit in Linux-land, and even in Windows world there are a handful that are available now (even before the OS is available). In short, the transition is happening MUCH faster now than it did back in the 386 days. Just as in the late 80's and early 90's (i.e. 16bit on a 32bit) million of us will be using a 64-bit chip to run 32 bit software. Sure, especially in Windows. We really don't need a 64-bit version of most applications, though the performance benefits (in the specific case of x64) might see them arise. However there are enough applications that WILL see 64-bit become the standard reasonably quickly that I think it's rather short-sighted to buy a 64-bit system if building one today. Given that you can get a 64-bit processor for "free" (ie same cost as a comparable 32-bit chip), then the question isn't so much "why 64 bits?" as "why not 64 bits?" Now a 64-bit chip means nothing to me, and on board memory controller which will let me run 32-bit/16-bit faster DOES MEAN SOMETHING.......in the "here and now". I'll buy for 64-bitness in the next decade - thanks. I'll buy 64-bit when I can afford to buy a major upgrade, because honestly there's no good reason not to these days. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#22
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Johannes H Andersen wrote:
JK wrote: [...] The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory controllers are made by AMD though. How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in much greater performance???????? They (integrated memory controllers) lower the latency to main memory significantly. ergo the chip isn't spinning it's wheels aimlessly anywhere near as much in the event of an L2 cache miss. -JB |
#23
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
wrote: JK wrote: [...] The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory controllers are made by AMD though. How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in much greater performance???????? sighBecause latency is the enemy... in every part of a system - losing the North Bridge FSB connection between CPU and memory controller counts for a lot. The fact that the North Bridge memory address arbitration and routing is moved into the CPU die and done at CPU clock speeds is another big factor. And why is it important to upgrade when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg. Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ???????? If you're happy with what you have thats err, fine. That Hyperthreading is there, in large part, of course, to counter memory latency. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
#24
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:46:38 GMT, gaffo wrote:
JK wrote: There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly, although some people want to run the latest and highest performing software, which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for most applications. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Talk about Beachfront property! How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?.................... no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!! In your little cell, maybe! 386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996. Uhh that was Windows 95 - there had been 32-bit software available, even from M$, well before that and of course M$ did have the little detour known as OS/2 which was 16-bit in its original form. Before the 32-bit GUIs were available, people were running 32-bit software routinely - some of them without even knowing it - in the form of DOS Extenders from Phar Lap et.al... and often (pre-emptively) multi-tasked under the DesqView environment. That was in 1987/8 for Phar Lap - I know... I used it. 64-bitness will remain irrelivant WRT to the home user for another 8 yrs or so. (using the Opteron initial release time). Obviously you have not grasped what 64-bitness means. and yes - I beleive this is a realistic timeframe for "Joe Ave" (i.e. the mainstream). Just as in the late 80's and early 90's (i.e. 16bit on a 32bit) million of us will be using a 64-bit chip to run 32 bit software. Now a 64-bit chip means nothing to me, and on board memory controller which will let me run 32-bit/16-bit faster DOES MEAN SOMETHING.......in the "here and now". I'll buy for 64-bitness in the next decade - thanks. Cut your nose off to spite your face if you want. snip of boilerplate Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
#25
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gaffo wrote:
How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?.................... no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!! 386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996. The 386's featureset was already being exploited within a year of introduction. Remember all of those DOS extenders and memory managers were also 32-bit software. They added a 32-bit "hypervisor" layer below DOS, long before Windows did the same thing. Qemm386 and Desqview were out within a year of the first 386. Then in Unix land, SCO (when it was still a real company) had Xenix and then eventually Unix running on 386s. Yousuf Khan |
#26
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Johannes H Andersen wrote:
How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg. Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ???????? Because it takes a P4 with about 2MB of L2 to equal the performance of an A64 with only 512K of L2. Yousuf Khan |
#27
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On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:14:56 +0200, Grumble
wrote: Yousuf Khan wrote: Will now concentrate on 2MB L2 caches instead. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19089 I don't think one is allowed to say "officially" and "the Inquirer" in the same sentence. Read the First Amendment. |
#28
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:38:21 GMT, "AJ" wrote:
"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message ... AJ wrote: Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel become $120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated. Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party motherboards should've always been on your radar, even before now. Historically, good integrated motherboards for AMD haven't been there. AJ Wake up, Nforce is here since, uhmm, 2001. And even much-criticized VIA is not that bad, at least since KT800 came out |
#29
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#30
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" wrote in message ... On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:38:21 GMT, "AJ" wrote: "Yousuf Khan" wrote in message ... AJ wrote: Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel become $120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated. Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party motherboards should've always been on your radar, even before now. Historically, good integrated motherboards for AMD haven't been there. AJ Wake up, Nforce is here since, uhmm, 2001. And even much-criticized VIA is not that bad, at least since KT800 came out I forgot to add that I was shopping for a micro-ATX board. For some reason, the 3rd party vendors don't like to make full-featured boards of the uATX kind instead relegating uATX to the "value" category. AJ |
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