Good news for SPARC

In article , Sheldon Simms writes:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:43:30 +0000, Roger Marquis wrote:

As reported in The Register (.uk)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html:

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan
to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu
subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make
Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations
a complementary move.

The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive
advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC
processors.

This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for
faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open
CPU architecture available).

What exactly does "open" mean in this case?


What it always means. Anything you want it to or not to mean.

Rob

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...
Sheldon Simms wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:55:00 +0000, Rich Teer wrote:

It means the opposite of proprietory. Intel's x86, contrary
to unimformed popular belief, is not an open archtecture.


I see. So although I can buy an x86 CPU from Intel, or AMD,
or Transmeta, or VIA, with SPARC I am somehow less bound to
one particular corporation (in some legal, if not practical,
sense)?

Let's say I want to take my 32-bit application and turn it into
a 64-bit application. Let's say I have x86 right now and want
to move to the new 64-bit version of x86. (I need to buy some
machines to run this 64-bit app, of course.) What do I do?

Since x86 is not an open architecture whose future is guided
by a standards body, each company has its own set of proprietary,
competing extensions that do 64-bit. I can't just choose to
go forward with "the standard". There is none, so I have to
make a choice between standards. This sucks because it's not
just a choice -- it's a gamble. If I need 64-bit now, I have
to buy machines that might turn out not to be compatible with
whatever winds up being the dominant 64-bit successor to x86.
They may be pretty worthless in a year or two, and if so, I
not only have to get new machines, but I also have to re-tool
to build apps for that architecture instead.

Meanwhile, in the SPARC world, the 64-bit SPARC processors from
various manufacturers are all compatible with each other,
and I can (now that there are stable 64-bit compilers) build a
64-bit app that runs on all 64-bit SPARC chips.

The x86 world will eventually reach the point where it settles
on a 64-bit instruction set that works and is standard. But
it will be a de facto standard, and it will only reach that
point when the massively-strong market forces in the x86 world
force it to happen, providing the resources for one company
to reverse engineer another's architecture, for legal battles
to happen, and all that nonsense that would be unnecessary
with an open standard.

In the SPARC world, the 64-bit problem is already decided
and has already been decided for over 5 years. Certainly
this is partly due to the fact that there is more demand
for 64-bit machines in the SPARC world than in the x86 world,
but I don't have any doubt that the fact that it's
standards-based has made it an easier and faster process.

- Logan

I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another
Sparc CPU other than from Sun?

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Godzilla wrote:

I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another
Sparc CPU other than from Sun?

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you'd have found
this:

http://www.sparc.com/members.html

It lists four microprocessor vendors in addition to Sun,
and nearly 20 OEMs.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

"Roger Marquis" wrote in message
...
As reported in The Register (.uk)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html:

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan
to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu
subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make
Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations
a complementary move.

The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive
advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC
processors.

This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for
faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open
CPU architecture available).

Not surprising really, the Sparc architecture is rapidly being pushed
upmarket to survive, and not of its own strategy. The lower tiers of the
server market are being taken over by the x86 architectures (Xeon and
Opteron), so there is not as much call for separate Sparc architectures to
both exist simultaneously.

Yousuf Khan

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Sheldon Simms wrote:

I see. So although I can buy an x86 CPU from Intel, or AMD,
or Transmeta, or VIA, with SPARC I am somehow less bound to
one particular corporation (in some legal, if not practical,
sense)?

Yes. And more to the point, if you want to design your own
chip that is SPARC compatible, you are allowed to do so. No
one will try to sue you. I somehow doubt Intel will let you
off so lightly if you try to design your own x86 compatible.

Unfortunately, too many people these days (not necessarily
you, I hasten to add!) equate ubiquity and being a commodity
with "not proprietory"; it ain't so. SPARC is nowhere near
as ubiquitous as x86, but it IS open. The latter is not.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

"Godzilla" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another
Sparc CPU other than from Sun?

Fujitsu, for example. Fuji makes their Sparc64 processors, which compete
against Sun's UltraSparc processors. Both are based on the same standard
instruction set.

But as the original posting said, it looks like Fuji and Sun are pooling
their resources together now to combine their processors.

Yousuf Khan

"Rich Teer" wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.58.0310222118050.467@zaphod...
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Godzilla wrote:

I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another
Sparc CPU other than from Sun?

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you'd have found
this:

http://www.sparc.com/members.html

It lists four microprocessor vendors in addition to Sun,
and nearly 20 OEMs.

I just looked at the above site:

As for OPEN, the architecture is free, and anyone can build processors based
on it.

The SPARC trademark requires membership in SPARC, and compliance testing.

Membership is $20,000 for manufacturers of hardware, $1500 for companies
promoting the architecture, and $100 for universities not supplying products
or services.

I would guess that it costs more than $20,000 to license any required
patents from Intel for x86.

-- glen

Sheldon Simms wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:43:30 +0000, Roger Marquis wrote:
This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for
faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open
CPU architecture available).


What exactly does "open" mean in this case?

And what does 'fastest' mean?

I guess we might have to ask for a definition of 'available' as well? :-)

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

"Roger Marquis" wrote in message
...
As reported in The Register (.uk)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html:

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan
to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu
subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make
Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations
a complementary move.

The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive
advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC
processors.

This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for
faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open
CPU architecture available).

I am confused. Sun has not owned exclusive rights to SPARC
processors for at least 10 years - since then they've been
on the same footing as everyone else. The first several
versions of SPARC processors used by Sun were not manufactured
by them. SPARC processors have been designed and manufactured
by many companies over the years, and still are. I've had my
hands around many types of SPARC processor over the years,
none of them manufactured by Sun.

How does two of the major manufacturers of SPARC processors
and systems combining their operations result in good news
for the consumer?

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:09:28 GMT, wrote:
..
I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another
Sparc CPU other than from Sun?

from fujitsu.




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