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#21
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
In article , Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 30/09/2012 3:30 PM, VanguardLH wrote: NOTE: I omitted the comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips newsgroup originally in the OP's post from my reply. By name, it doesn't seem a related newsgroup (and I don't visit that newsgroup to know that it is related). "Yousuf Khan" wrote: I've had a powerline ethernet setup for several years at my home. I usually find their performance more consistent than Wi-Fi, especially when streaming video. But right now I'm not experiencing usual conditions. I'm currently using 3 adapters distributed throughout my home. Current iteration uses all adapters based on the Powerline HD 200Mbps standard. Usually I'd be getting over 100Mbps on all adapters, occasionally dropping down to 50Mbps in the worst cases. Nowadays I'm seeing it drop down to 5Mbps even. I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home, as far as I can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines seems to have gotten noisier for no apparent reason. What can be done to improve the situation? The house is 30 years old. http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwa...omeplug-five-w ays-to-boost-powerline-network-speed Section 3 /(You might be able to read this article. I block Facebook crap so their frame blocks out content in the article.)/ http://www.connectedhome.infopint.co...line-ethernet/ See text following "In order to achieve excellent, stable home networking performance". http://support.plasternetworks.com/w...-powerline-iso lator "Effects of Noise and Attenuation on the Powerline" Thanks, but a lot of the articles are about problems with HomePlug standard, and my adapters all conform to the Powerline HD standard. In fact, a couple of the articles even talk about replacing the HomePlug with Powerline adapters as the solution! By that measure, I'm already running the solution to my problems. Powerline sends an RF signal over your power lines. Anything else that injects RF into those same lines can affect your Powerline network. Maybe your refridgerator compressor kicked in when you noticed the network degradation. Maybe you got a new electronic gadget and left its wall wart plugged in all the time. Maybe you added another computer (see below on PSU capacitors). That doesn't mean just RF sources you add but from around your residence, too. Well, things such as the refrigerator have been around for many years. I'll check the various rechargers (wall warts) to see if they are plugged in directly (as opposed to through surge protectors). This problem is not an intermittent fluctuating one, it's now a constant reduction in speed. Yousuf Khan One thing that might cause slowdown is if a HAM radio operator is in the neighborhood. But if it comes down to it the Amateur radio operator will win if it comes down to it cause he is liscenced to use the frequencies. |
#22
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
In article ,
GMAN wrote: [...] One thing that might cause slowdown is if a HAM radio operator is in the neighborhood. But if it comes down to it the Amateur radio operator will win if it comes down to it cause he is liscenced to use the frequencies. However the majority of hams will help locate and eliminate the inteference if asked politely. After all, they are probably being hit by it also. In the majority of cases, they are not causing the interference. -- Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67 Canines: Val,Red,Shasta,Zero,Casey & Cinnar (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L Canines: Red & Max (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L |
#23
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
"GMAN" wrote:
One thing that might cause slowdown is if a HAM radio operator is in the neighborhood. But if it comes down to it the Amateur radio operator will win if it comes down to it cause he is liscenced to use the frequencies. Ham operators can operate from 1 to 1000 watts for transmission power. CB'ers are supposed to get limited to 5W but I've heard of them punching out higher. Being next to a group of towers for radio stations isn't so great, either. Being next to high-power lines with corono discharge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge) can also induce a hum (usually at twice your line frequency) in your your power lines. In the case of ham or CB operators, you'd notice the interference when they transmit (on), not when they receive (off). Leaving their gear powered on just means they are receiving, not transmitting. With ham and CB users, you'd notice the RFI when they transmit, like noise occasionally showing up on TV when watching broadcast channels. The OP says it is constant now (well, when he happens to measure but it's unlikely every time he measures happens to be when a ham/CB user also happens to be transmitting). Radio stations are often up 24 hours a day, or they go off-air late at night or wee morn which is probably also when Yousuf is sleeping and won't be testing Powerline bandwidth. Then there's hum because grounding of multiple electric/electronic devices are at different points in that circuit path. I'm not an electrician but I would think proper running of the ground line to each room would go back to the service entry point; however, that means a device grounded in one room has a length of ground wire from that room to the service point and then from the service point to some other room where there is another grounded device. That length of wire has resistance which incurs an impedance at high frequency. That means there is a potential difference between those 2 ground devices over that length of wire. RF transmission with impedance means voltaic difference over that long grounding path. That's why just 10 feet of wire between electrical outlets in the same room on the same circuit can induce 400V difference due to a sharp surge (e.g., lightning strike) and why you don't interconnect devices hooked up to different surge protectors connected to different outlets, like hooking up the audio out of your computer on a surge protector to the audio in of your stereo gear ran to a different wall outlet. For interconnected electronic devices, you run them off [the same surge protector to] the same wall outlet. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_hum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity). The first article mentions hum produced due to high current. Maybe Yousuf is measuring Powerline bandwidth when he happens to be cooking something on his electric stove. Note that Powerline transceivers themselves produce noise. To electronic gear, the RF "noise" riding on the surface of the power wires represents noise. I've read where Powerline users will notice a crackling or hum noise in their subwoofers (probably due to poor noise filtering in the sub's amp but then it's filter might be getting rid of typical line hum up at 50, 60, 100, or 120 Hz and not trying to filter out "noise" up at 20-250 kHz). I've had to use line conditioners (filters) to eliminate noise in electronic gear, so if Yousuf is using any line conditioners or noise filters then that would affect Powerline performance. Even if he use a line conditioner on one wall outlet and had the Powerline on a nearby wall outlet, the noise filtering could be quelching the noise on the line and not just on its output. Since the point of a line conditioner or noise filter is to eliminate noise on the line above the A/C frequency (50-60 Hz), any quelching on the input side, too, is considered a good thing although a side effect. If you look at some simple design for a low-end noise filter, like at http://www.teslacoildesign.com/image..._schematic.gif, wouldn't the capacitor across the input short out the RF band. That's on the input side of the noise filter so it's shorting out RF on the power line. Someone who's an electrical engineer might know better if a noise filter placed on a wall outlet would result not only in reduced RF on the output of the noise filter but also in reduced RF on its input side (i.e., on the power line at the wall outlet). Maybe that's why leaving a wall wart plugged in causes problems for Powerline transceivers. While the transformer is a coil that would choke out the RF noise (Powerline transmission), don't some of these have a cap and sometimes a resistor in parallel and on the input side of the transformer? Without that shorting of input RF, wouldn't the transformer incur more heat due to the impedance of the choke (transformer) to the RF signal? Maybe they presume RF noise will be low in power and the transformer can easily handle the added heat dissipation. I don't know how much power the Powerline (aka Homeplug) transceivers put on the power lines. From the long-haul description at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication, RF transmission power could go up to several hundred watts. |
#24
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Flasherly
wrote: Seriously, when I last looked for a breaker I called a place quite a distance away, a big bunker spread over acres and acres of land in an industrial area. A private home salvage operation pulling materials from homes that had been through fire & catastrophe and other acts of nature. I found a 60-amp 220V to replace the dryer's 30-amp service for $10, maybe 15 bucks. I like plugging a couple welders into it, and wasn't in the mood to play the local hardware stores $1000 for a ef'n fuse or rewire in a separate service. You must like hot wires! |
#25
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:42:37 -0700, Loren Pechtel wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Flasherly wrote: Seriously, when I last looked for a breaker I called a place quite a distance away, a big bunker spread over acres and acres of land in an industrial area. A private home salvage operation pulling materials from homes that had been through fire & catastrophe and other acts of nature. I found a 60-amp 220V to replace the dryer's 30-amp service for $10, maybe 15 bucks. I like plugging a couple welders into it, and wasn't in the mood to play the local hardware stores $1000 for a ef'n fuse or rewire in a separate service. You must like hot wires! Or smoking wall framing. |
#26
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
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#27
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:30:57 +0000 (UTC), David wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:42:37 -0700, Loren Pechtel wrote: On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Flasherly wrote: Seriously, when I last looked for a breaker I called a place quite a distance away, a big bunker spread over acres and acres of land in an industrial area. A private home salvage operation pulling materials from homes that had been through fire & catastrophe and other acts of nature. I found a 60-amp 220V to replace the dryer's 30-amp service for $10, maybe 15 bucks. I like plugging a couple welders into it, and wasn't in the mood to play the local hardware stores $1000 for a ef'n fuse or rewire in a separate service. You must like hot wires! Or smoking wall framing. I doubt that's going to be hot enough to smoke. What it might do to the framing over the years, though... |
#28
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On Oct 2, 6:42 pm, Loren Pechtel wrote:
You must like hot wires! Gaseous, too, acetylene and oxygen tanks. Nasty, nasty stuff in the heat -- leathers and a face mask, banging and chipping on something before incessantly grinding away in a spray of slag -- almost as much in itself a process to formed metallurgical substances, by testing subsequently in stages a shape for strength. Neighbors take one look at the gear, however, hurry the children inside and act as if I'm all about decapitating cats. I've no inkling whatsoever why, and it's utterly pretentious poppy-cock on their part to act that way;- the only difference between common woodworking garage tools, is they don't exuberantly throw finished table craft down the driveway, into the street, to see if it breaks upon impact. |
#29
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On Oct 3, 6:15 pm, Loren Pechtel wrote:
Or smoking wall framing. I doubt that's going to be hot enough to smoke. What it might do to the framing over the years, though... Conduit. Besides a short run outside at the breaker box, twice up and down, inside galvanized pipe across 10' linearly from the dryer. Easily enough physically to grasp for heat, although do have to be careful of appliance people if there's a great sale w/ free delivery/ setup -- a fit between adjacent 220V compressor, washer, freezer, or W/ H. Neat unless I catch them doing the ol' double-take. |
#30
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Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance
On 01/10/2012 10:19 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
If you're unwilling to route CAT5 cables through your home, you sure you don't want to go to wifi? If I was willing to route CAT5 through my house, then I wouldn't have purchased these powerline adapters, would I? As for Wi-Fi, there is already Wi-Fi in the house. One of the purposes of the powerline adapters is to bridge a couple of Wi-Fi routers together, with one router acting as traditional router, while the other one is just being used as a repeater. The first router provides Wi-Fi services to one end of the house, while the other one provides it for the other end. Yousuf Khan |
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