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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
This post is a continuation of thread:
"Speaker For PC Internal BIOS Computer Motherboard Mini Onboard Case Buzzer Board Beep Alarm NEW." The new title above provides searchable entries. The service life of electrolytic capacitors is 17 years Capacitor 'leakage' had got so bad, the system shut down immediately. After much fiddling, the beep speaker is now giving beep codes, 'Continuous short beeps: Power error'. This is progress. 'Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing' means maintaining +5 voltage. My NEW PSU does that. I see the PS/2 mouse glows red. After 24 hours 'self-healing', it is time to worry about bad caps. One near the PCIe graphics slot is anomalous. Instead of being bowed-out, its head has a bowed-in dimple, like it expanded and then contracted. It does not feel hot to the touch, but touch reveals it is loose. Maybe Electrolytic Capacitor leakage was so great it melted the solder? Since it looks bad, maybe it can be removed and tested. What are the consequences? I can work without PCIe graphics for a while, but I will need it later. My recollection is that this re-forming of old electrolytics must be done very carefully if it is to be successful. The old-school method was to connect the cap to a variable power supply with a suitable current limiting resistor and to slowly and either smoothly or in small increments increase the voltage to the rated value. This was to take place over at least a half hour IIRC. I did it a few times in the past and it was generally successful. I see no way that it could be easily carried out on a MB with scores (hundreds?) of caps of various voltages. Sometimes it is necessary to cut one's losses and pitch old hardware as not worth the time and money to get it working. I found an early-90s server-class EISA server MB in my storeroom cleaning and actually thought about trying to get it working but pretty quickly gave up on the idea. Just not worth the effort although it might make a good display in a computer history museum. Thanks John, My GA-EP45-DS3L is virgin. The GA-EP45-DS3L is still a hot item in the marketplace: (2019) https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...DS3L-rev-10#ov (2020) https://www.ebay.com/p/74075851 (out of stock) https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128345 I have installed it in a new COUGAR MX330 Gaming PC Case. All components of this build are new. The problem seems to be that BIOS V1.0 (2008) is not comfortable with specs on new parts. If I can get it booted with best old parts, then I can upgrade BIOS and tweak settings. New Gigabyte device drivers are on a DVD-RW. Booting up the Internet on a new build is a nightmare. Every piece of old OS & application software wants to be upgraded at once. Fortunately I have a WiFi AP that is super slow. Only after things have settled down is it safe to use a Fast WiFi AP. The work has only begun. And I didn't even mention the joy of upgrading old to new, CPU & RAM etc. The easy route is Used not 'Virgin'. Here is a recent Youtube video about Louis Rossmann working on an Apple board, that explores similar concepts: "What is an ACTIVE short and how does it differ from a NORMAL short circuit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7RwlTbHTQ&t=920s Louis Rossmann Published on Dec 26, 2019" /// The crucial issue is 'what component gets hot?' |
#12
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
[massive snippage]
Thanks John, My GA-EP45-DS3L is virgin. The GA-EP45-DS3L is still a hot item in the marketplace: (2019) https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...DS3L-rev-10#ov (2020) https://www.ebay.com/p/74075851 (out of stock) https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128345 I have installed it in a new COUGAR MX330 Gaming PC Case. All components of this build are new. The problem seems to be that BIOS V1.0 (2008) is not comfortable with specs on new parts. If I can get it booted with best old parts, then I can upgrade BIOS and tweak settings. New Gigabyte device drivers are on a DVD-RW. Booting up the Internet on a new build is a nightmare. Every piece of old OS & application software wants to be upgraded at once. Fortunately I have a WiFi AP that is super slow. Only after things have settled down is it safe to use a Fast WiFi AP. The work has only begun. And I didn't even mention the joy of upgrading old to new, CPU & RAM etc. The easy route is Used not 'Virgin'. Here is a recent Youtube video about Louis Rossmann working on an Apple board, that explores similar concepts: "What is an ACTIVE short and how does it differ from a NORMAL short circuit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7RwlTbHTQ&t=920s Louis Rossmann Published on Dec 26, 2019" /// The crucial issue is 'what component gets hot?' This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel CPU and cooler: Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST Excerpt: One of the recent topics permeating through the custom PC space recently has been about power draw. Intel's latest eight-core processors are still rated at a TDP of 95W, and yet users are seeing power consumption north of 150-180W, which doesn't make much sense. In this guide, we want to give you a proper understanding why this is the case, and why it gives us reviewers such a headache. What is TDP (Thermal Design Power)? With every processor, Intel guarantees a specific frequency at a specific power, often with a particular grade of cooler in mind. Most people equate a chip's TDP rating directly to its maximum power draw, given that the heat energy that needs to be dissipated from the processor is equal to the power consumed in doing calculations. Normally, the TDP rating is that specific power. But TDP, in its strictest sense, relates to the ability of the cooler to dissipate heat. TDP is the minimum capacity of the CPU cooler required to get that guaranteed level of performance. Some energy dissipation also occurs through the socket and motherboard, which means that technically the cooler rating can be lower than the TDP, but in most circles TDP and power consumption are used to mean the same thing: how much power a CPU draws under load. |
#13
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote:
[massive snippage] This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel CPU and cooler: It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650 mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece. Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine). by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT. Excerpt: snipped FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU, upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's 5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line. CPU evolution has slowed considerably in the last 5 years so my i7 is still fairly 'contemporary'. In the previous 5 years however they were still making great leaps and bounds in development. I leave my PC on all day and I noticed that when I swapped from the QX9650 rig (which by then was running at 3.0 GHz) to this one my power consumption dropped considerably, enough to show up on my monthly power bills. When I tested the PCs against each other I found it had halved at idle and was much less while gaming. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. |
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to
make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor. Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron. "~misfit~" wrote in message ... On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote: [massive snippage] This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel CPU and cooler: It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650 mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece. Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is pictured. Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700. Intel is Intel, for Xst sake. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine). Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements. by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT. Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom. Excerpt: snipped FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU, upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's 5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line. You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CPU evolution has slowed considerably in the last 5 years so my i7 is still fairly 'contemporary'. In the previous 5 years however they were still making great leaps and bounds in development. I leave my PC on all day and I noticed that when I swapped from the QX9650 rig (which by then was running at 3.0 GHz) to this one my power consumption dropped considerably, enough to show up on my monthly power bills. When I tested the PCs against each other I found it had halved at idle and was much less while gaming. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. |
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
Norm Why wrote:
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor. Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron. Dinosaurs are also careful what they wish for. If that cap is an interference fit, it will be a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two, but you almost need mechanical assist to do that. (The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and pull the wire out. But I've had the fillet pull right out too, making a hell of a mess to clean up (jumper wire to restore the electrical connection). Computer motherboards are of poor quality (our boards at work, you'd never pull a fillet right out). Even with the right equipment, I've had trouble with these. Part of the reason for testing, was to see if the right equipment was magical or not. It's not. The job was no different with the vacuum station, than with a blue colored solder pull-it. https://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/me...soldering-pump It the leads are an interference fit, then one job is "pulling the wire" and making sure there is nothing on the end of the wire that will snag as it is pulled through. The end of the wire should not have diagonal pliers to cut it, but make a clean cut with the cutter on your wire stripper. These make a clean cut on the end of a wire or leg, but they're hard to get close to the work to do that. The clean cut is made, using the cutting surface closest to the hinge point. These strip 22-30ga solid wire, and I used these for lots and lots of wirewrap connections. https://images.datacomtools.com/imag...ers/45-120.jpg Crap like this is what you get at retail, and these make an awful mess when you need a burr-free cut. Not recommended. It has something to do with the fit of the two scissor pieces, and whether there's enough of a gap to make a sloppy cut. You've probably seen the yellow ones at the hardware store that look like this. Again, not recommended (except when you have no choice of course, like you're in the field and have no tools and it's all you can get). https://images.datacomtools.com/imag...ers/45-101.jpg Diagonal cutters malform the end of the wire, and diagonal cutters are good for "freeing" the work, but a separate cleanup cut with the good tools, removes the mess the diagonal cutter made. It's the shape of the cutting blades, that causes the problem. Thus, this is "a blunt tool for decapitation". https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg You can pull the wire in either direction (which ever direction results in the wire coming out). Then, once the wire is free and clear, you can use solder wick or your $9 solder pump, to remove the excess solder before fitting a new cap. I'm not sure how you've correctly decided that cap is the defective one, unless you've already snapped one of the legs on it or something. Paul |
#16
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
On 12/29/2019 3:00 PM, Paul wrote:
If that cap is an interference fit, it will be a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two, but you almost need mechanical assist to do that. (The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and So true. There are many sorts of components and methods of installation that demand extreme measures. I use Logitech trackballs and use them _heavily_ but this exposes a shortcoming in the switches they use for the left and right buttons. I'm pretty good at repairs and have most of the necessary tools but with these tiny microswitches the only solution is to crush them, unsolder the remaining pins, clean the holes with a sucker and wooden toothpick and then finally get around to installing the new one. I'm getting pretty good at it though and always keep a trackball in reserve. |
#17
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
On 30/12/2019 8:22 AM, Norm Why wrote:
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor. Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron. How do you know about me? Other than knowing I've watched a few Rossman videos you couldn't be further from the truth. FYI I have at least four soldering irons (two of which are temperature controlled) including the hot-air rework station on my workbench and I know how to use them all. I also have solder paste for SMD work, rolls of different diameter flux core solder including a couple flavours of lead-free and several types of flux in several types of applicators. I have also re-capped multiple mobos in the past but gave that up as a waste of time around 2006-ish era boards when most went to interference fit leads and faulty caps became less common. "~misfit~" wrote in message ... On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote: [massive snippage] This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel CPU and cooler: It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650 mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece. Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is pictured. Because cooler fans are cutting-edge tech and what this is all about? Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700. Intel is Intel, for Xst sake. You're wrong. (Which is no big surprise as you often post within minutes of a previous post showing how often it occurs.) PL1, PL2 etc, (as discussed in that article) are states that only apply to Intels CPUs that change their operating frequency on the fly. Yours doesn't, nor would that mobo support it if it did. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine). Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements. So above you tell me to read the title (which includes 'turbo') and now you dismiss language? Oh and FYI the Q9650 doesn't run at "numerous clock speeds" on the fly like a modern processor. For instance my i7 varies between 0.8 GHz and 4.0 GHz depending on demand. The Q9560 frequency is set in BIOS and stays at that speed whether you're transcoding a video or the machine is idling while you're mowing the lawn. by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT. Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom. Excerpt: snipped FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU, upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's 5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line. You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I figured you to be a self-important and delusional sarcastic SOB. Thanks for proving me right. The biggest difference between us is that I likely do far more with PCs than you do and I don't need to bother Paul multiple times an hour for weeks on end doing it. Paul provides an invaluable service here, has helped me more than once and it pains me to see him keep trying to help you while you say 'thanks' then head off on a new tangent instead of following his advice. Anyone with even a general understanding of psychological principles reading your posts would realise that you're a lonely shut in so desperate for human interaction that you even reply to yourself. Do you get a little tingle in your pants every time Paul replies to you? Being validated by such a knowledgeable and charitable person must really help you to keep deluding yourself into feeling you're not as insignificant and useless as, deep down you KNOW that you are. If you knew half as much as you think you do then you wouldn't still be here asking for help months after first posting about this junk-drawer system. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. |
#18
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board
to make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor. Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron. How do you know about me? Other than knowing I've watched a few Rossman videos you couldn't be further from the truth. FYI I have at least four soldering irons (two of which are temperature controlled) including the hot-air rework station on my workbench and I know how to use them all. I also have solder paste for SMD work, rolls of different diameter flux core solder including a couple flavours of lead-free and several types of flux in several types of applicators. I have also re-capped multiple mobos in the past but gave that up as a waste of time around 2006-ish era boards when most went to interference fit leads and faulty caps became less common. "~misfit~" wrote in message ... On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote: [massive snippage] This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel CPU and cooler: It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650 mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece. Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is pictured. Because cooler fans are cutting-edge tech and what this is all about? Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700. Intel is Intel, for Xst sake. You're wrong. (Which is no big surprise as you often post within minutes of a previous post showing how often it occurs.) PL1, PL2 etc, (as discussed in that article) are states that only apply to Intels CPUs that change their operating frequency on the fly. Yours doesn't, nor would that mobo support it if it did. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine). Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements. So above you tell me to read the title (which includes 'turbo') and now you dismiss language? Oh and FYI the Q9650 doesn't run at "numerous clock speeds" on the fly like a modern processor. For instance my i7 varies between 0.8 GHz and 4.0 GHz depending on demand. The Q9560 frequency is set in BIOS and stays at that speed whether you're transcoding a video or the machine is idling while you're mowing the lawn. by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT. Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom. Excerpt: snipped FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU, upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's 5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line. You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I figured you to be a self-important and delusional sarcastic SOB. Thanks for proving me right. The biggest difference between us is that I likely do far more with PCs than you do and I don't need to bother Paul multiple times an hour for weeks on end doing it. Paul provides an invaluable service here, has helped me more than once and it pains me to see him keep trying to help you while you say 'thanks' then head off on a new tangent instead of following his advice. Anyone with even a general understanding of psychological principles reading your posts would realise that you're a lonely shut in so desperate for human interaction that you even reply to yourself. Do you get a little tingle in your pants every time Paul replies to you? Being validated by such a knowledgeable and charitable person must really help you to keep deluding yourself into feeling you're not as insignificant and useless as, deep down you KNOW that you are. If you knew half as much as you think you do then you wouldn't still be here asking for help months after first posting about this junk-drawer system. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. Don't be so modest. |
#19
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Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing
If that cap is an interference fit, it will be
a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two, but you almost need mechanical assist to do that. (The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and So true. There are many sorts of components and methods of installation that demand extreme measures. I use Logitech trackballs and use them _heavily_ but this exposes a shortcoming in the switches they use for the left and right buttons. I'm pretty good at repairs and have most of the necessary tools but with these tiny microswitches the only solution is to crush them, unsolder the remaining pins, clean the holes with a sucker and wooden toothpick and then finally get around to installing the new one. I'm getting pretty good at it though and always keep a trackball in reserve. The cap in question was damaged. Undamaged caps are flush. Undamaged caps do not fall away with finger tips. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor. |
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