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#1
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Problems rebuilding system
[snippage]
"Paul" wrote Did you get a manual ? Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ? Yes. I'm not stupid. All power must be removed when you use the shunt! Yes. Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do My bad. a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone. Page 31 https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf "Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance power source. Excess current can be drawn through a ~70mA dual diode. "Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off, using the switch on the back of the PSU is sufficient to remove +5VSB. On an Asus mobo the Green LED should be extinguished. For Dell switch-less, unplug the PSU. ] After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer, be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper. Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ] After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults (select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for BIOS configurations). " ******* On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong, [snippage] https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf Other possibilities: 1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650. Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected. 2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely. If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards, they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on the screen, that the power cable was not seated. 3) Many other problems could be detected with a PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's possible there are PCI Express versions now, but the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more. A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80 display right on the motherboard. Not true or not relevant. But that's about all that comes to mind. Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in the silk screen. No electrical components in the motherboard design should enter the keep out circle. As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem, leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to catch **** like this. Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and *intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"), sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide support "bump" shorts something out. No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008 board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer: I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update. Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a 2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009. I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range. Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range. Thanks. |
#2
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Problems rebuilding system
Norm Why wrote:
[snippage] "Paul" wrote Did you get a manual ? Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ? Yes. I'm not stupid. All power must be removed when you use the shunt! Yes. Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do My bad. a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone. Page 31 https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf "Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance power source. Excess current can be drawn through a ~70mA dual diode. "Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off, using the switch on the back of the PSU is sufficient to remove +5VSB. On an Asus mobo the Green LED should be extinguished. For Dell switch-less, unplug the PSU. ] After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer, be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper. Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ] After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults (select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for BIOS configurations). " ******* On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong, [snippage] https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf Other possibilities: 1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650. Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected. 2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely. If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards, they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on the screen, that the power cable was not seated. 3) Many other problems could be detected with a PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's possible there are PCI Express versions now, but the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more. A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80 display right on the motherboard. Not true or not relevant. But that's about all that comes to mind. Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in the silk screen. No electrical components in the motherboard design should enter the keep out circle. As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem, leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to catch **** like this. Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and *intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"), sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide support "bump" shorts something out. No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008 board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer: I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update. Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a 2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009. I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range. Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range. Thanks. The only motherboard I know of, with that kind of strange requirement, is an Asrock board with VIA chipset. It has only a PCI Express x4 wiring for the video card slot. And Asrock listed video cards they had tested to work with their x4 wiring. I didn't think this was really necessary, but Asrock insisted that some video card products would not work. This could be the "Rev1.1 problem". But many other motherboards have no such limitations and they have a full video card slot. The only video slot problem, is some (again, VIA) products, which don't tolerate Rev2 lanes versus Rev1 lanes. So some early revisions of PCI Express do cause problems, because the automatic hardware speed negotiation doesn't work properly. The chipset involved here is P45. It's not one of the crappy chipsets. I don't see a reason for this to fail in that way (negotiation problem at startup). The thread here is a random sample of such info. It suggests newer cards having a problem in Rev1.1 slots. But yours has a Rev2 slot. https://forums.tomshardware.com/thre...oblem.1833049/ The video slot on P45 is Rev.2 . There should not be a problem either backwards or forwards with that. I have an X48 (Rev.2) and a Q45 (Rev.2) and no problems seen with them. And I have an instance of the Asrock with the "potentially problematic" x4 wired x16 slot Rev1.1, but I've never tested a PCIe card in that one. It's a neat board that has two video card slots, an AGP and a PCIe, and I always used the AGP on it. I have tried my newest video card in the X48. And it failed. But it failed for a good reason - not enough address space for mapping (no beeps). The motherboard is not new enough to have uncapped addressing. The video card has too much memory on board for its own good. My newest motherboard is interesting, in that the mapping done gives "8GB onboard available" with a 64 bit OS, and a "2GB onboard available" with a 32 bit OS. Which means the address map is adapting some how so that the 32 bit OS is not "starved out" by the video card. I don't think the system I'm typing on, is quite that sophisticated, which is why it black screens with the "large" video card in it. The rest of my video cards are 1GB or smaller onboard. So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue (not enough juice for video card). And that's easy enough to happen - I've had one case where a wire burned on the PSU harness, and that's why the video card had "not enough power" symptoms. I had to solder a cable to the video card to replace the power connector on the card in that case (no spares in my repair box for a proper fix). ******* One trick with the Gigabyte web site, is the name changed. It was gigabyte.com.tw at one time, and later became gigabyte.com . This should work. https://web.archive.org/web/20080224...gabyte.com.tw/ The problem is, one of the links on that page is broken, so we can't see a list of their "New" Rev.2 boards. There's only a list of some Rev1.1 or so, boards. The 8800GTX might have been the last of Rev1.1, in terms of "big-name" video cards. ******* If you are "not rich" and "don't have enough hardware for this test", you should see if any shop offers a "$25 diagnosis service". In the past, there were some newsgroup participants, who were able to find mom&pop stores offering such a test. If the tester is good, they can give feedback on what worked or didn't work, to make a board work. I've had to buy double the hardware on one system, to retest every card that goes into the system, to get things working. That's my most expensive "home diagnosis" experience. I don't want to send you through that, if a "$25 diagnosis" or whatever it is today, will achieve the same results. But such tests are subject to local availability, and lord knows what a diagnose costs today. With inflation, the price now might actually be unattractively high. The only video card slots with some sort of ESD problem, were NVidia Northbridge chipsets. Some of those arrived out-of-the-box with one dead video slot of two. Yours is Intel. Intel Revision2. The other problem way back when, was the BIOS would not accept anything other than a video card in slot #1. This was some sort of BIOS bug. Later systems (yours likely included), can have USB3 cards, SATA cards, whatever you want, in the video card slots. It was just a couple first-release BIOS that had an issue with card type. Video would work, but not declarations of other card types. And a BIOS update would fix it. Since you have a dual BIOS, you could switch back and forth between them. Normally, the contents would be identical on the two BIOS. AFAIK, the way GB works, is there are two main code modules (one in each Flash chip), but only one of the chips has a boot block. This leaves a single-point-of-failure in the Gigabyte design. I'm sure the GB Tech Support will correct me on this, but I was reading this somewhere years ago, as to how theirs worked. Note: Don't forget to hook up SPKR to the header. We need those "beep" results. The beeps tell us what is alive. With the video card pulled, your system should be able to beep the "video is missing" on the computer case SPKR (or the piezo disc which is used on OEM boards in place of SPKR). Both "RAM Missing" and "Video Missing" beeps are possible. Start with both RAM and video pulled (switch off PSU before add/remove). Listen for "RAM Missing". Say it is two beeps. Now, plug in RAM, listen for "Video Missing". Say, that is three beeps. The beep pattern of the two test cases should differ. The BIOS is able to run without RAM or Video. You only get beeps, if CPU and BIOS are available. No beeps, means you should look elsewhere besides the current fixation on video. On a dual BIOS, if no beeps, flip and try again. The reason the PC beeps 1 time at POST, is "lamp test", a proof that SPKR is working. Methodical testing helps triangulation... Paul |
#3
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Problems rebuilding system
On 11/12/2019 5:26 AM, Paul wrote:
Norm Why wrote: [snippage] "Paul" wrote much snipping Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a 2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and me. You've got Gigabyte techs helping you with an 11 year old mobo that you bought from ebay? That's very impressive! So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue (not enough juice for video card). I believe my (unanswered) input into this thread suggested that the GPU wasn't getting enough power. IIRC the OP is using an "old 400w PSU" that worked fine with a slower CPU with fewer cores and in an older mATX mobo (with this GPU?). As I said in my previous post there's a good chance that the PSU simply isn't providing enough on the +12v rails. The OP seems have a penchant for using 'old gear' so the chances are good that his "old 400w PSU" is in fact ancient going by modern standards. Ancient enough to be putting out most of it's rated power on the +3.3v and +5v rails and nowhere near enough on the +12v rail. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable running a Q9650, a GTX 970 and SSD / HDD RAM etc from a *modern* 400w PSU (unless it was from a tier 1 manufacturer) yet alone a (possibly) ancient one. I ran a Q9650 for a time and, unlike modern CPUs they don't have very low power 'idle states' so are constantly drawing quite a few watts. A GTX 970 pulls 69 watts at idle and 256 watts under load (according to Techspot*). All from the +12v rail. * https://www.techspot.com/review/885-nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-gtx-980/page7.html Most hardware sites recommend using at least a minimum 500w PSU with a GTX 970 and quad-core CPU. And that's a modern (as in 75% of rated power on +12v rail) PSU. Just for completeness' sake I just grabbed a PSU from my 'still works just fine but obsolete' pile. It's a Thermaltake Xaser Purepower 480W with an 04/10 date code. It's rated 18A on the +12v rail. That's 216 watts according to my calculations. Not enough for just that GPU under load yet alone the rest of the PC. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. |
#4
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Problems rebuilding system
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 8:26:09 AM UTC-8, Paul wrote:
Norm Why wrote: [snippage] "Paul" wrote Did you get a manual ? Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ? Yes. I'm not stupid. All power must be removed when you use the shunt! Yes. Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do My bad. a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone. Page 31 https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf "Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance power source. Excess current can be drawn through a ~70mA dual diode. "Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off, using the switch on the back of the PSU is sufficient to remove +5VSB. On an Asus mobo the Green LED should be extinguished. For Dell switch-less, unplug the PSU. ] After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer, be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper. Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ] After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults (select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for BIOS configurations). " ******* On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong, [snippage] https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf Other possibilities: 1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650. Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected. 2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely. If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards, they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on the screen, that the power cable was not seated. 3) Many other problems could be detected with a PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's possible there are PCI Express versions now, but the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more. A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80 display right on the motherboard. Not true or not relevant. But that's about all that comes to mind. Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in the silk screen. No electrical components in the motherboard design should enter the keep out circle. As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem, leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to catch **** like this. Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and *intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"), sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide support "bump" shorts something out. No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008 board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer: I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update. Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a 2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009. I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range. Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range. Thanks. The only motherboard I know of, with that kind of strange requirement, is an Asrock board with VIA chipset. It has only a PCI Express x4 wiring for the video card slot. And Asrock listed video cards they had tested to work with their x4 wiring. I didn't think this was really necessary, but Asrock insisted that some video card products would not work. This could be the "Rev1.1 problem". But many other motherboards have no such limitations and they have a full video card slot. The only video slot problem, is some (again, VIA) products, which don't tolerate Rev2 lanes versus Rev1 lanes. So some early revisions of PCI Express do cause problems, because the automatic hardware speed negotiation doesn't work properly. The chipset involved here is P45. It's not one of the crappy chipsets. I don't see a reason for this to fail in that way (negotiation problem at startup). The thread here is a random sample of such info. It suggests newer cards having a problem in Rev1.1 slots. But yours has a Rev2 slot. https://forums.tomshardware.com/thre...oblem.1833049/ The video slot on P45 is Rev.2 . There should not be a problem either backwards or forwards with that. I have an X48 (Rev.2) and a Q45 (Rev.2) and no problems seen with them. And I have an instance of the Asrock with the "potentially problematic" x4 wired x16 slot Rev1.1, but I've never tested a PCIe card in that one. It's a neat board that has two video card slots, an AGP and a PCIe, and I always used the AGP on it. I have tried my newest video card in the X48. And it failed. But it failed for a good reason - not enough address space for mapping (no beeps). The motherboard is not new enough to have uncapped addressing. The video card has too much memory on board for its own good. My newest motherboard is interesting, in that the mapping done gives "8GB onboard available" with a 64 bit OS, and a "2GB onboard available" with a 32 bit OS. Which means the address map is adapting some how so that the 32 bit OS is not "starved out" by the video card. I don't think the system I'm typing on, is quite that sophisticated, which is why it black screens with the "large" video card in it. The rest of my video cards are 1GB or smaller onboard. So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue (not enough juice for video card). And that's easy enough to happen - I've had one case where a wire burned on the PSU harness, and that's why the video card had "not enough power" symptoms. I had to solder a cable to the video card to replace the power connector on the card in that case (no spares in my repair box for a proper fix). ******* One trick with the Gigabyte web site, is the name changed. It was gigabyte.com.tw at one time, and later became gigabyte.com . This should work. https://web.archive.org/web/20080224...gabyte.com.tw/ The problem is, one of the links on that page is broken, so we can't see a list of their "New" Rev.2 boards. There's only a list of some Rev1.1 or so, boards. The 8800GTX might have been the last of Rev1.1, in terms of "big-name" video cards. ******* If you are "not rich" and "don't have enough hardware for this test", you should see if any shop offers a "$25 diagnosis service". In the past, there were some newsgroup participants, who were able to find mom&pop stores offering such a test. If the tester is good, they can give feedback on what worked or didn't work, to make a board work. I've had to buy double the hardware on one system, to retest every card that goes into the system, to get things working. That's my most expensive "home diagnosis" experience. I don't want to send you through that, if a "$25 diagnosis" or whatever it is today, will achieve the same results. But such tests are subject to local availability, and lord knows what a diagnose costs today. With inflation, the price now might actually be unattractively high. The only video card slots with some sort of ESD problem, were NVidia Northbridge chipsets. Some of those arrived out-of-the-box with one dead video slot of two. Yours is Intel. Intel Revision2. The other problem way back when, was the BIOS would not accept anything other than a video card in slot #1. This was some sort of BIOS bug. Later systems (yours likely included), can have USB3 cards, SATA cards, whatever you want, in the video card slots. It was just a couple first-release BIOS that had an issue with card type. Video would work, but not declarations of other card types. And a BIOS update would fix it. Since you have a dual BIOS, you could switch back and forth between them. Normally, the contents would be identical on the two BIOS. AFAIK, the way GB works, is there are two main code modules (one in each Flash chip), but only one of the chips has a boot block. This leaves a single-point-of-failure in the Gigabyte design. I'm sure the GB Tech Support will correct me on this, but I was reading this somewhere years ago, as to how theirs worked. Note: Don't forget to hook up SPKR to the header. We need those "beep" results. The beeps tell us what is alive. With the video card pulled, your system should be able to beep the "video is missing" on the computer case SPKR (or the piezo disc which is used on OEM boards in place of SPKR). Both "RAM Missing" and "Video Missing" beeps are possible. Start with both RAM and video pulled (switch off PSU before add/remove). Listen for "RAM Missing". Say it is two beeps. Now, plug in RAM, listen for "Video Missing". Say, that is three beeps. The beep pattern of the two test cases should differ. The BIOS is able to run without RAM or Video. You only get beeps, if CPU and BIOS are available. No beeps, means you should look elsewhere besides the current fixation on video. On a dual BIOS, if no beeps, flip and try again. The reason the PC beeps 1 time at POST, is "lamp test", a proof that SPKR is working. Methodical testing helps triangulation... Paul Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused. One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic (harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards and recheck the various boards offered me. |
#5
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Problems rebuilding system
Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then
they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused. One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic (harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards and recheck the various boards offered me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to make my new build work. PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V. First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management. I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would require solder leads onto board. Useless idea. Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In 2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008, ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common. Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech, decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows. My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to pay hundred$ of dollars. Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter? Thanks. |
#6
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Problems rebuilding system
Norm Why wrote:
Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused. One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic (harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards and recheck the various boards offered me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to make my new build work. PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V. First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management. I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would require solder leads onto board. Useless idea. Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In 2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008, ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common. Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech, decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows. My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to pay hundred$ of dollars. Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter? Thanks. The difference between an ATI Wonder and an ATI card, is the Wonder has a TV tuner. This does not materially affect the problems you're having. You don't need the Wonder part to solve a technical problem. Specifying Wonder just adds to the card price and that's it. Any old PCI based card would do, if you want to get video without a hassle. PCI is 33MHz 32 bits wide on the average desktop, and this is not exactly a high speed interface. It's about as challenging as making an IDE ribbon cable work. AGP slots go up to 8X, and the interface has a clock and can do eight bus transfers within one clock tick (of the lower speed clock). There were all sorts of problems over the years with this. One USENET poster seems to have had some first hand engineering experience with AGP, and only had swear words to offer. PCI Express is similar, in that like SATA, there are attempts to be backward compatible, that don't always work out. PCI Express 2 cards in PCI Express 1.1 motherboards were a problem in a few cases. Some of the PCI Express 2 cards, the manufacturer offered a video flash upgrade that would cause the card to have the interface set at the PCI Express 1.1 rate instead (so the card would refuse to negotiate and screw up, and would always use the correct speed without any assistance). Maybe you could get a video flash upgrade for the 64KB flash chip on the 8800GTX. That was somewhere in that era. Even if you acquired a PCI 6200, that would be good enough to get a BIOS screen working. Most Windows OSes would run that screen at 800x600 without a driver, and Windows 10 could manage 1024x768. PCI cards "don't need to match era". No need to aim for the year 2008. A 6200 PCI offers PCI without bridge chips. An HD3450 would offer PCI by bridging PCI Express to PCI with a separate chip. And a card which delivered an AGP connector to the motherboard, it would use a bridge chip like ATI Rialto to convert from PCI Express (on the GPU) to AGP (at the motherboard connector). Those are some examples of how it's done. Today, you could take practically any PCI Express card, and with a good bridge chip, run it in a PCI slot by using a PCI to PCI Express bridge card. That being said, the market doesn't have much to offer in the way of PCI video cards. Even though bridging new kit is easy. There's a lot of used cards on Newegg for $50, but that's a bit too high. For that price, you would expect a new card. This is for situations where you have a low profile card you'd like to use. The problem with this card, is the end away from us in the picture, needs the end of the connector sawn off (to allow the usage of x1, x4, x8, x16 cards in the adapter). This one uses a *closed* x1 connector. The second link shows the kind of connector Startech *should* have used. https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158190 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...d_IMG_1820.JPG Now, this adapter plugs into the previous adapter, giving us overall, a PCI Express x16 to PCI adapter. It solves the closed x1 connector problem. The card is passive, just a slab of FR4. There is no mechanical support to speak of. The box contents don't show a "stubby" faceplace metal piece to be affixed to the FR4 drill holes. https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158223 So again, a swing and a miss. I'm sure with a little shopping, a better adapter is out there. Just a matter of a crappy Google search coughing the thing up. If I needed a PCI video card today, I have one surplus place I could try that has "old new stock". I got my IDE DVD writer there. Other than that, I've have to go to the recyclers and get one. Paul |
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Problems rebuilding system
Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then
they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused. One kind gentleman whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic (harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards and recheck the various boards offered me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to make my new build work. PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V. First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management. I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would require solder leads onto board. Useless idea. Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In 2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008, ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common. Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech, decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows. My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to pay hundred$ of dollars. Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter? Thanks. The difference between an ATI Wonder and an ATI card, is the Wonder has a TV tuner. This does not materially affect the problems you're having. You don't need the Wonder part to solve a technical problem. Specifying Wonder just adds to the card price and that's it. Any old PCI based card would do, if you want to get video without a hassle. PCI is 33MHz 32 bits wide on the average desktop, and this is not exactly a high speed interface. It's about as challenging as making an IDE ribbon cable work. AGP slots go up to 8X, and the interface has a clock and can do eight bus transfers within one clock tick (of the lower speed clock). There were all sorts of problems over the years with this. One USENET poster seems to have had some first hand engineering experience with AGP, and only had swear words to offer. PCI Express is similar, in that like SATA, there are attempts to be backward compatible, that don't always work out. PCI Express 2 cards in PCI Express 1.1 motherboards were a problem in a few cases. Some of the PCI Express 2 cards, the manufacturer offered a video flash upgrade that would cause the card to have the interface set at the PCI Express 1.1 rate instead (so the card would refuse to negotiate and screw up, and would always use the correct speed without any assistance). Maybe you could get a video flash upgrade for the 64KB flash chip on the 8800GTX. That was somewhere in that era. Even if you acquired a PCI 6200, that would be good enough to get a BIOS screen working. Most Windows OSes would run that screen at 800x600 without a driver, and Windows 10 could manage 1024x768. PCI cards "don't need to match era". No need to aim for the year 2008. A 6200 PCI offers PCI without bridge chips. An HD3450 would offer PCI by bridging PCI Express to PCI with a separate chip. And a card which delivered an AGP connector to the motherboard, it would use a bridge chip like ATI Rialto to convert from PCI Express (on the GPU) to AGP (at the motherboard connector). Those are some examples of how it's done. Today, you could take practically any PCI Express card, and with a good bridge chip, run it in a PCI slot by using a PCI to PCI Express bridge card. That being said, the market doesn't have much to offer in the way of PCI video cards. Even though bridging new kit is easy. There's a lot of used cards on Newegg for $50, but that's a bit too high. For that price, you would expect a new card. This is for situations where you have a low profile card you'd like to use. The problem with this card, is the end away from us in the picture, needs the end of the connector sawn off (to allow the usage of x1, x4, x8, x16 cards in the adapter). This one uses a *closed* x1 connector. The second link shows the kind of connector Startech *should* have used. https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158190 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...d_IMG_1820.JPG Now, this adapter plugs into the previous adapter, giving us overall, a PCI Express x16 to PCI adapter. It solves the closed x1 connector problem. The card is passive, just a slab of FR4. There is no mechanical support to speak of. The box contents don't show a "stubby" faceplace metal piece to be affixed to the FR4 drill holes. https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158223 So again, a swing and a miss. I'm sure with a little shopping, a better adapter is out there. Just a matter of a crappy Google search coughing the thing up. If I needed a PCI video card today, I have one surplus place I could try that has "old new stock". I got my IDE DVD writer there. Other than that, I've have to go to the recyclers and get one. Paul Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder" here are two: MPN: 1090005910 100-703271 If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However, 'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU: http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era: ATI VIP graphics card (1988) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990) ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990) ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990) ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991) ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991) VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992) ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993) ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993) ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?) ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996) The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+ (1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help. Merry Christmas |
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Problems rebuilding system
Norm Why wrote:
Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder" here are two: MPN: 1090005910 100-703271 If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However, 'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU: http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era: ATI VIP graphics card (1988) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990) ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990) ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990) ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991) ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991) VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992) ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993) ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993) ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?) ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996) The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+ (1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help. Merry Christmas The All-In-Wonder are the ones with TV Tuners onboard. That stopped in the year 2008 or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-in-Wonder Apparently ATI Wonder is just a flavor of video card marketing. ATI Theater chips came after 2008, and were sold as separate cards. Diamond Multimedia had an ATI Theater capture card, for example. In this example, you can just barely see the ATI branding on it. This is a TV tuner capture card. With a TV and an FM 75 ohm input. https://images.hothardware.com/stati...em720/card.jpg ATI stopped this business, because the software development was costing too much. That's why they made the TV tuner card companies provide their own capture software (and much of that capture software sucked). This kinda crushed the business and made it unattractive. After that ATI/AMD stuck with video card functions, to make a buck. They got out of that distracting business and concentrated on their strengths. ******* Try to concentrate on the bus compatibility issue here. I don't think the words "All-In-Wonder" help in that regard. I don't want to see you wasting money on garbage. There should at least be a reasonable plan for what any item like this, hopes to achieve. The purpose of finding a PCI video card, is just so you can see the screen. This assumes the rest of the motherboard/RAM/CPU are working. This is why I want you do those damn beep tests first! **** the video card. You need to test that mobo/CPU work with no RAM and no video in place. Add RAM back, observe that "missing video" beep happens. These are basic tests to prevent you from wasting your time on acquiring a video card. If the appropriate beeps come out of the computer SPKR, *then* you can settle in searching for some sort of magical video card. If the machine won't beep... a video card will *not* help. Asus made one motherboard, where due to some BIOS issues, the SPKR will not beep at all. I'm not aware of any Gigabyte boards suffering from this sort of issue. They wouldn't react the way Asus did at the time. Various "Port 80 POST cards" exist. Some enthusiast motherboards have this two digit display right on the motherboard, as an aid to debugging. If you already own one of these, you could use it. I do not recommend buying these, as the benefits they product are not great enough to justify the purchase price. The value in these is "Go/No Go". If the display shows a value other than 0xFF or 0x00 or the display goes blank (when the system starts to boot), fine. The status LEDs that indicate system power rails are pretty to look at (one poster was able to detect a power failure by looking at the four LEDs). But the values on the digits are almost worthless in figuring out root causes of motherboard failures. Consequently I don't recommend these for general usage. The PC SPKR by comparison, is a cheap cheap way to test. It's a kind of GO/No Go test too. But you don't have to buy anything (as long as the computer case has the standard SPKR and two wire cable with the 1x4 connector on the end). https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/postcard.jpg Paul |
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Problems rebuilding system
Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business
today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder" here are two: MPN: 1090005910 100-703271 If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However, 'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU: http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era: ATI VIP graphics card (1988) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989) ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990) ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990) ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990) ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991) ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991) VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992) ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993) ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993) ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?) ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996) The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+ (1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help. Merry Christmas The All-In-Wonder are the ones with TV Tuners onboard. That stopped in the year 2008 or so. Yes. I owned an ATI All-In-Wonder. It turned my PC monitor into a TV. In the Apple era folks turned their TV into a monitor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-in-Wonder Apparently ATI Wonder is just a flavor of video card marketing. Their are different flavors of ATI Wonder. You need to distinguish by part number. This is a general rule. Only with part numbers can with distiguish specs of similar products. Names like 'ATI Wonder' are just for marketing. From WBM in late 2008, when my GA-EP45-DR3LR MOBO was found Gigabyte ATI Wonder was adfvertised by Gigabyte. People resell old parts. ATI Wonder is no where to be found. Strange, what does that tell you. Gigabyte is not the only MOBO maker. If hardware specific hardware was the industry norm, that would tell you someting about resale market in subsequent decades. ATI Theater chips came after 2008, and were sold as separate cards. Diamond Multimedia had an ATI Theater capture card, for example. In this example, you can just barely see the ATI branding on it. This is a TV tuner capture card. With a TV and an FM 75 ohm input. https://images.hothardware.com/stati...em720/card.jpg ATI stopped this business, because the software development was costing too much. That's why they made the TV tuner card companies provide their own capture software (and much of that capture software sucked). This kinda crushed the business and made it unattractive. After that ATI/AMD stuck with video card functions, to make a buck. They got out of that distracting business and concentrated on their strengths. ******* Try to concentrate on the bus compatibility issue here. I don't think the words "All-In-Wonder" help in that regard. I don't want to see you wasting money on garbage. There should at least be a reasonable plan for what any item like this, hopes to achieve. The purpose of finding a PCI video card, is just so you can see the screen. This assumes the rest of the motherboard/RAM/CPU are working. This is why I want you do those damn beep tests first! **** the video card. You need to test that mobo/CPU work with no RAM and no video in place. Add RAM back, observe that "missing video" beep happens. These are basic tests to prevent you from wasting your time on acquiring a video card. Thanks. I'll try that. But the beeper is in the MX-330-X chassis. I need to check that electrically first so as to not get a false diagnosis. When I did not see the POWER LED, I needed to switch the polarity. The front panel connectors are tiny. Child size finger would help. I have not yet seen disc activity LED, since not yet booted. When booted and not seen, I'll need to switch the polarity. The + / - marks on leads are tiny. The colored LED's on the MOBO near RAM say RAM is good and recognized. If the appropriate beeps come out of the computer SPKR, *then* you can settle in searching for some sort of magical video card. If the machine won't beep... a video card will *not* help. Asus made one motherboard, where due to some BIOS issues, the SPKR will not beep at all. I'm not aware of any Gigabyte boards suffering from this sort of issue. They wouldn't react the way Asus did at the time. Various "Port 80 POST cards" exist. Some enthusiast motherboards have this two digit display right on the motherboard, as an aid to debugging. If you already own one of these, you could use it. I do not recommend buying these, as the benefits they product are not great enough to justify the purchase price. The value in these is "Go/No Go". If the display shows a value other than 0xFF or 0x00 or the display goes blank (when the system starts to boot), fine. The status LEDs that indicate system power rails are pretty to look at (one poster was able to detect a power failure by looking at the four LEDs). But the values on the digits are almost worthless in figuring out root causes of motherboard failures. Consequently I don't recommend these for general usage. The PC SPKR by comparison, is a cheap cheap way to test. It's a kind of GO/No Go test too. But you don't have to buy anything (as long as the computer case has the standard SPKR and two wire cable with the 1x4 connector on the end). https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/postcard.jpg Paul Thanks for the fine diagnostic advice. YorkU ComSci/EE has bad telecom. They are closed to the outside world. I have tried an ATI Rage card. A local has offered an ATI Radeon VGA card that I have not tried yet. I think I owned one once. But I recycle on Craigslist and don't have a box of old parts. From manual, here are the beep codes: Q: What do the beeps emitted during the POST mean? A: The following Award BIOS beep code descriptions may help you identify possible computer problems. (For reference only.) 1 short: System boots successfully 2 short: CMOS setting error 1 long, 1 short: Memory or motherboard error 1 long, 2 short: Monitor or graphics card error 1 long, 3 short: Keyboard error 1 long, 9 short: BIOS ROM error Continuous long beeps: Graphics card not inserted properly Continuous short beeps: Power error Since I have not heard any beeps when the table says I should, that would imply a problem with the front panel connecter. I'll be back after Xmas duties. |
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Problems rebuilding system
Norm Why wrote:
From manual, here are the beep codes: Q: What do the beeps emitted during the POST mean? A: The following Award BIOS beep code descriptions may help you identify possible computer problems. (For reference only.) 1 short: System boots successfully 2 short: CMOS setting error 1 long, 1 short: Memory or motherboard error 1 long, 2 short: Monitor or graphics card error 1 long, 3 short: Keyboard error 1 long, 9 short: BIOS ROM error Continuous long beeps: Graphics card not inserted properly Continuous short beeps: Power error Since I have not heard any beeps when the table says I should, that would imply a problem with the front panel connecter. I'll be back after Xmas duties. It requires a working motherboard+CPU combo. Then you'll get beep codes on SPKR. SPKR is not polarized. Just make sure the span is correct for the connector (some OEM cases might have a 1x2 connector, while some retail motherboards use a 1x4 pattern). You can use connector strips and lift the tab on each, to shift wires within shells and make the correct connector for the job. The SPKR body should be electrically isolated from the two wire leads. The wire leads go to the speaker coil, and the coil moves in and out with the cone. Even so, a few computer cases here use plastic mounts for SPKR. The front panel header is reasonably bulletproof. RESET and POWER are SPST momentary contact switches, normally open. You push the button, and the switch closes for a moment. The LEDs are polarized as you say. The LED is rated for 5V PIV (Peak Inverse Volts) so cannot be harmed by reversing the leads. Each driving circuit has a series resistor to limit current flow. If they don't light, you reverse the 1x2 connector and try again. Normally the spacing and span of various signal assignments on the Front Panel connector, avoids the possibility of shorting two power pins placed next to one another. If there is a SPKR section of a Front Panel connector, the "hot" end should not be near a GND pin. The ones I've looked at, generally have fairly safe signal assignments. While there are connectors on a computer that get crushed and you cannot visually check them, the Front Panel connector isn't one of the ones where people habitually do bad things. I don't think I've had any reports of anyone managing to start a fire using nothing but a Front Panel header problem :-) (If you pinch the "hot" wire of SPKR between the computer case door and the computer case, which is GND, then the wire will get smoked. And that has happened. Normally those wires aren't sitting near the door.) You can get a "no beep" condition, by using a reset button crushed in the ON position. Usually OEM computer cases are the ones with sufficiently cheesy buttons on the front of the computer, to make incidents like this possible. I have one computer here, where the buttons are such, I know that some day that's how those buttons will fail. The buttons speak of cheapness. Paul |
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