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#21
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene PRIME Z390-A $250CDN One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one of each, and they're "transparent") 8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4) 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP) 4096x2304 @ 60Hz 8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of QuickSync video block) You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it into the table. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php Intel UHD 630 1202 passmark G3D === your CPU graphics Radeon HD 4870 1382 (historical reference) GeForce GTX 1050 4688 passmark G3D (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc encoder) Radeon RX 580 8447 passmark G3D Your proposal GeForce GTX 1660 11022 passmark G3D RTX generation (but with raytracing off?) Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what you've got. Paul Should have mentioned Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630 should be a fair amount better. I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I shouldn't need an adaptor (I think). Rene The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh. Paul |
#22
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Major upgrade
On 04/24/2019 10:34 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN, Â*mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene PRIME Z390-AÂ* $250CDNÂ*Â*Â*Â* One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one of each, and they're "transparent") 8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4)Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP)Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 60Hz 8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of QuickSync video block) You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it into the table. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php IntelÂ*Â* UHD 630Â*Â*Â* 1202Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â* === your CPU graphics Radeon HD 4870Â*Â*Â* 1382Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (historical reference) GeForce GTX 1050Â*Â* 4688Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc encoder) Radeon RX 580Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 8447Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Your proposal GeForce GTX 1660Â* 11022Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RTX generation (but with Â*raytracing off?) Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what you've got. Paul Should have mentioned Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630 should be a fair amount better. Â* I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I shouldn't need an adaptor (I think). Rene The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh. Â*Â* Paul Downloaded the manual last night and am busy reading it, that UEFI bios looks kinda intimidating compared to my old 'bios' bios, thank goodness I will not be overclocking. I have added Windows-10 newsgroup as I get closer to software questions. Rene |
#23
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Major upgrade
On 04/24/2019 10:57 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 10:34 AM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN, Â*mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene PRIME Z390-AÂ* $250CDNÂ*Â*Â*Â* One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one of each, and they're "transparent") 8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4)Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP)Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 60Hz 8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of QuickSync video block) You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it into the table. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php IntelÂ*Â* UHD 630Â*Â*Â* 1202Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â* === your CPU graphics Radeon HD 4870Â*Â*Â* 1382Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (historical reference) GeForce GTX 1050Â*Â* 4688Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc encoder) Radeon RX 580Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 8447Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Your proposal GeForce GTX 1660Â* 11022Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RTX generation (but with Â*raytracing off?) Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what you've got. Paul Should have mentioned Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630 should be a fair amount better. Â* I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I shouldn't need an adaptor (I think). Rene The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh. Â*Â*Â* Paul Downloaded the manual last night and am busy reading it, that UEFI bios looks kinda intimidating compared to my old 'bios' bios, thank goodness I will not be overclocking. I have added Windows-10 newsgroup as I get closer to software questions. Rene Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene |
#24
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the result, then clone the exact exact image, back to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Paul |
#25
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Major upgrade
On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows 8, It is NOT an OEM. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. YesI do have a microsot account And it is linked to my License. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. Yes, I just made a clone copy in Macrium 0n a same size SSD and tested it by running it, so it is good. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back Â*Â* to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive, and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS, Then start doing the actual change over. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Â*Â* Paul I'll be back. :-) Rene |
#26
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Major upgrade
On 04/25/2019 4:24 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows 8, It is NOT an OEM. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. YesI do have a microsot accountÂ* And it is linked to my License. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). Â*Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. Yes, I just made a clone copy in MacriumÂ* 0n a same size SSD and tested it by running it, so it is good. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the Â*Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back Â*Â*Â* to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive, and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS, Then start doing the actual change over. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Â*Â*Â* Paul I'll be back.Â* :-) Rene Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. Rene |
#27
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Major upgrade
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. |
#28
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Major upgrade
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene |
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene HP EX 950 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write" Bull**** (violates a law of physics) DRAM 512MB DDR3 etc. (various sizes of DRAM cache) Micron 64L TLC https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950 Silicon Motion SM2262EN Random Read 390k IOPS (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark) Random Write 370k IOPS Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec. The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec cannot be achieved). ******* SRG SX8200 older SM2262 controller ??? Dunno Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA branding on the above article example. Double check the branding. ******* WD black SN750 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review "Secret squirrel brand controller" Size-dependent IOP, like all designs. Random Read 220k IOPS 420k IOPS 515k IOPS 480k IOPS Random Write 180k IOPS 380k IOPS 560k IOPS 550k IOPS Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model. The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read. [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).] ******* Throw in one more. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/ Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions. Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all. It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating", where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass". Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange). The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity. (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".) You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write. Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings. You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing 2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed, without something getting warm :-) The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA when writing. Paul |
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Major upgrade
On 04/27/2019 5:47 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene HP EX 950 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html Â*Â* "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write"Â* Bull**** (violates a law Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* of physics) Â*Â* DRAMÂ*Â*Â* 512MB DDR3 etc.Â* (various sizes of DRAM cache) Â*Â* Micron 64L TLC https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950 Â*Â* Silicon Motion SM2262EN Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 390k IOPSÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark) Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 370k IOPS Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec. Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec Â*Â* (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available Â*Â*Â* in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of Â*Â*Â* PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates Â*Â*Â* hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec Â*Â*Â* cannot be achieved). ******* SRG SX8200 Â*Â* older SM2262 controller ??? Dunn Â*Â* Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA Â*Â* branding on the above article example. Double check the branding. ******* WD black SN750 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review Â*Â* "Secret squirrel brand controller" Â*Â* Size-dependent IOP, like all designs. Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 220k IOPSÂ* 420k IOPSÂ* 515k IOPSÂ* 480k IOPS Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 180k IOPSÂ* 380k IOPSÂ* 560k IOPSÂ* 550k IOPS Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model. Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read. Â*Â* [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).] ******* Throw in one more. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review Â*Â* Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/ Â*Â* Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions. Â*Â* Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all. Â*Â* It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating", Â*Â* where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to Â*Â* English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass". Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange). Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity. Â*Â* (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".) You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write. Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings. You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing 2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed, without something getting warm :-) The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA when writing. Â*Â* Paul The new SRG SX8200 PRO is 512 instead of 480 and sports the new SM2262en controller, Yes both that one and the HP are very nearly identical. I have read so many long reviews today my Eyeballs are still spinning. :-) It was a real learning experience believe me but worth it, Trusting my judgement and trying to remember all the facts with lots of notes. I chose Door 2, The Adata SRG SX8200 512 GB unit and ordered it from Amazon at a price of $129 cdn. free shipping 2 day delivery. When I get all this stuff bolted together I will certainly do a lot of bench-marking and post results and then the truth will shine forth. I am really looking forward to this as I haven't done a new build in 9 years Thanks for your help and research Rene |
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