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Major upgrade



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 24th 19, 04:34 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700
Coffee lake?


You can work this out using cpubenchmark.

AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather
than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches.
Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread,
"Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI,
map prefetch) can be parallelized.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single
threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use
this.

Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD
Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN,
mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193
# $420 CDN

snip

When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the
Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at
the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't
choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A
couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they
were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by
now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors
that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up,
but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of
something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die
for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to
happen, I went with the 8700.



When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if
they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That
will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card
later or use my existing HD 5850.


Rene



The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard
a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and
there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily
away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic
posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the
factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing
the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of
tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the
signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4
online stores as folows.

Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as
being the lowest price.

I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7
8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212
evo cooler

I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying
the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try
first. Will post again when all parts are received.

Rene


PRIME Z390-A $250CDN One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on
I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one
of each, and they're "transparent")

8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4) 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res
for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP) 4096x2304 @ 60Hz

8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of
QuickSync video block)

You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it
into the table.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

Intel UHD 630 1202 passmark G3D === your CPU graphics Radeon
HD 4870 1382 (historical reference) GeForce
GTX 1050 4688 passmark G3D (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc
encoder) Radeon RX 580 8447 passmark G3D Your proposal
GeForce GTX 1660 11022 passmark G3D RTX generation (but with
raytracing off?)

Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what
you've got.

Paul


Should have mentioned

Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630
should be a fair amount better.
I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I
shouldn't need an adaptor (I think).

Rene


The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh.

Paul
  #22  
Old April 24th 19, 04:57 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os,windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/24/2019 10:34 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700
Coffee lake?


You can work this out using cpubenchmark.

AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather
than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches.
Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread,
"Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI,
map prefetch) can be parallelized.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single
threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use
this.

Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD
Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN,
Â*mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193
# $420 CDN

snip

When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the
Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at
the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't
choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A
couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they
were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by
now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors
that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up,
but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of
something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die
for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to
happen, I went with the 8700.



When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if
they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That
will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card
later or use my existing HD 5850.


Rene



The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard
a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and
there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily
away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic
posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the
factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing
the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of
tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the
signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4
online stores as folows.

Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as
being the lowest price.

I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7
8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212
evo cooler

I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying
the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try
first. Will post again when all parts are received.

Rene

PRIME Z390-AÂ* $250CDNÂ*Â*Â*Â* One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on
I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one
of each, and they're "transparent")

8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4)Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res
for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP)Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 60Hz

8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of
QuickSync video block)

You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it
into the table.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

IntelÂ*Â* UHD 630Â*Â*Â* 1202Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â* === your CPU graphics Radeon
HD 4870Â*Â*Â* 1382Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (historical reference) GeForce
GTX 1050Â*Â* 4688Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc
encoder) Radeon RX 580Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 8447Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Your proposal
GeForce GTX 1660Â* 11022Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RTX generation (but with
Â*raytracing off?)

Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what
you've got.

Paul


Should have mentioned

Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630
should be a fair amount better.
Â* I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I
shouldn't need an adaptor (I think).

Rene


The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh.

Â*Â* Paul


Downloaded the manual last night and am busy reading it, that UEFI bios
looks kinda intimidating compared to my old 'bios' bios, thank goodness
I will not be overclocking.
I have added Windows-10 newsgroup as I get closer to software questions.

Rene


  #23  
Old April 25th 19, 05:50 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os,windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/24/2019 10:57 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 10:34 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700
Coffee lake?


You can work this out using cpubenchmark.

AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather
than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches.
Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread,
"Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI,
map prefetch) can be parallelized.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single
threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use
this.

Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD
Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN,
Â*mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193
# $420 CDN

snip

When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the
Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at
the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't
choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A
couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they
were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by
now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors
that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the
line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of
something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die
for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to
happen, I went with the 8700.



When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if
they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That
will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card
later or use my existing HD 5850.


Rene



The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard
a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and
there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily
away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic
posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the
factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing
the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of
tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the
signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4
online stores as folows.

Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as
being the lowest price.

I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7
8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212
evo cooler

I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying
the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try
first. Will post again when all parts are received.

Rene

PRIME Z390-AÂ* $250CDNÂ*Â*Â*Â* One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on
I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one
of each, and they're "transparent")

8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4)Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res
for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP)Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 4096x2304 @ 60Hz

8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of
QuickSync video block)

You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it
into the table.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

IntelÂ*Â* UHD 630Â*Â*Â* 1202Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â* === your CPU graphics Radeon
HD 4870Â*Â*Â* 1382Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (historical reference) GeForce
GTX 1050Â*Â* 4688Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc
encoder) Radeon RX 580Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 8447Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Your proposal
GeForce GTX 1660Â* 11022Â* passmark G3DÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RTX generation (but with
Â*raytracing off?)

Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what
you've got.

Paul

Should have mentioned

Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630
should be a fair amount better.
Â* I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I
shouldn't need an adaptor (I think).

Rene


The MX279 is HD 1920x1080. Should be no problem at 60Hz refresh.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


Downloaded the manual last night and am busy reading it, that UEFI bios
looks kinda intimidating compared to my old 'bios' bios, thank goodness
I will not be overclocking.
I have added Windows-10 newsgroup as I get closer to software questions.

Rene



Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in
about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday.

Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my
Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive,
Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive.

In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new
build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact.
Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with
the new hardware?

Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final
shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc
Or would that help?

I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation,
Does anyone have the Phone number?

Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order.

Thanks to all.

Rene







  #24  
Old April 25th 19, 07:43 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

New build with 8700

Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in
about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday.

Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my
Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive,
Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive.

In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new
build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact.
Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with
the new hardware?

Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final
shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc
Or would that help?

I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation,
Does anyone have the Phone number?

Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order.

Thanks to all.

Rene


It might depend on the genealogy of the license.

Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable.
Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor
from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still
activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is
how long it's been since an install attempt was made
(a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install"
is a sign of license abuse...

On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account,
also used for the App Store). And each machine and
license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard
serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they
can transfer a license from one motherboard to another.
But whether they will, since there have been no first-person
accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible
or whether it works.

I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to
just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather
than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But
it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given
an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful",
as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness.

*******

Any time you attempt this sort of thing.

1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality).
This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified.

2) Transfer the original drive to the new build.

3) Watch for train wreck.

4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the
result, then clone the exact exact image, back
to the original drive.

Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual
copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you
want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when
jumping from machine to machine.

I would think though, that as long as the image had
been booted once on the old machine, before again
moving it to the second machine, those modified
identifiers should be noted by the boot run.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all
the junk out of the old case, and install the new.
What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide
some support so the video card doesn't fall over,
boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've
had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant
didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine
ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before
the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state
and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know
it needs re-cloning.

Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on
a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit
like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on
the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you
will get at least one notification box, indicating
you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at.

While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for
changing license keys, there's no need for that quite
yet.

Paul
  #25  
Old April 25th 19, 10:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

New build with 8700

Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow
in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday.

Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my
Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up
drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the
same drive.

In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new
build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact.
Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with
the new hardware?

Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final
shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc
Or would that help?

I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation,
Does anyone have the Phone number?

Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order.

Thanks to all.

Rene



It might depend on the genealogy of the license.


It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows
8, It is NOT an OEM.


Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable.
Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor
from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still
activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is
how long it's been since an install attempt was made
(a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install"
is a sign of license abuse...

On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account,
also used for the App Store). And each machine and
license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard
serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they
can transfer a license from one motherboard to another.
But whether they will, since there have been no first-person
accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible
or whether it works.


YesI do have a microsot account And it is linked to my License.



I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to
just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather
than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But
it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given
an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful",
as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness.

*******

Any time you attempt this sort of thing.

1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality).
Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified.


Yes, I just made a clone copy in Macrium 0n a same size SSD and tested
it by running it, so it is good.


2) Transfer the original drive to the new build.

3) Watch for train wreck.

4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the
Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back
Â*Â* to the original drive.

Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual
copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you
want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when
jumping from machine to machine.

I would think though, that as long as the image had
been booted once on the old machine, before again
moving it to the second machine, those modified
identifiers should be noted by the boot run.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all
the junk out of the old case, and install the new.
What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide
some support so the video card doesn't fall over,
boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've
had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant
didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine
ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before
the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state
and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know
it needs re-cloning.


Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the
GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive,
and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS,
Then start doing the actual change over.


Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on
a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit
like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on
the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you
will get at least one notification box, indicating
you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at.

While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for
changing license keys, there's no need for that quite
yet.

Â*Â* Paul


I'll be back. :-)

Rene



  #26  
Old April 27th 19, 03:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/25/2019 4:24 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

New build with 8700

Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow
in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch
yesterday.

Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my
Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up
drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the
same drive.

In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new
build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps
intact.
Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work
with the new hardware?

Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final
shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc
Or would that help?

I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for
reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number?

Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order.

Thanks to all.

Rene



It might depend on the genealogy of the license.


It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows
8, It is NOT an OEM.


Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable.
Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor
from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still
activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is
how long it's been since an install attempt was made
(a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install"
is a sign of license abuse...

On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account,
also used for the App Store). And each machine and
license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard
serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they
can transfer a license from one motherboard to another.
But whether they will, since there have been no first-person
accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible
or whether it works.


YesI do have a microsot accountÂ* And it is linked to my License.



I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to
just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather
than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But
it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given
an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful",
as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness.

*******

Any time you attempt this sort of thing.

1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality).
Â*Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified.


Yes, I just made a clone copy in MacriumÂ* 0n a same size SSD and tested
it by running it, so it is good.


2) Transfer the original drive to the new build.

3) Watch for train wreck.

4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the
Â*Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back
Â*Â*Â* to the original drive.

Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual
copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you
want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when
jumping from machine to machine.

I would think though, that as long as the image had
been booted once on the old machine, before again
moving it to the second machine, those modified
identifiers should be noted by the boot run.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all
the junk out of the old case, and install the new.
What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide
some support so the video card doesn't fall over,
boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've
had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant
didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine
ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before
the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state
and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know
it needs re-cloning.


Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the
GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive,
and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS,
Then start doing the actual change over.


Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on
a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit
like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on
the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you
will get at least one notification box, indicating
you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at.

While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for
changing license keys, there's no need for that quite
yet.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


I'll be back.Â* :-)

Rene




Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and
now find the prices quite attractive.
I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB
unit as follows.

HP EX 950
SRG SX8200
WD black SN750

Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I
am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and
these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't
decide which one to buy.
So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would
appreciate their input, Thanks in advance.

Rene

  #27  
Old April 27th 19, 05:00 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 213
Default Major upgrade

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and
now find the prices quite attractive.
I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB
unit as follows.

HP EX 950
SRG SX8200
WD black SN750

Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I
am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and
these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't
decide which one to buy.
So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would
appreciate their input, Thanks in advance.


I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is
Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other
brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2
NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers
that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280
is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo
physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold
down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at
the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away
some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or
stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an
informed decision and you'll be fine.

One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which
specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast
boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no
longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been
that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA.

  #28  
Old April 27th 19, 05:13 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and
now find the prices quite attractive.
I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB
unit as follows.

HP EX 950
SRG SX8200
WD black SN750

Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I
am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and
these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't
decide which one to buy.
So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would
appreciate their input, Thanks in advance.


I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is
Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other
brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2
NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers
that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280
is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo
physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold
down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at
the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away
some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or
stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an
informed decision and you'll be fine.

One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which
specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast
boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no
longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been
that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA.


Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths
40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will
be disabled when adding the NVMe drive.
Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price
ones should be OK.

Thanks, Rene


  #29  
Old April 27th 19, 11:47 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and
now find the prices quite attractive.
I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB
unit as follows.

HP EX 950
SRG SX8200
WD black SN750

Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I
am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and
these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't
decide which one to buy.
So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would
appreciate their input, Thanks in advance.


I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is
Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other
brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2
NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers
that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280
is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo
physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold
down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at
the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away
some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or
stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an
informed decision and you'll be fine.

One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which
specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast
boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no
longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been
that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA.


Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths
40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will
be disabled when adding the NVMe drive.
Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price
ones should be OK.

Thanks, Rene


HP EX 950

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html

"that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write" Bull**** (violates a law
of physics)

DRAM 512MB DDR3 etc. (various sizes of DRAM cache)
Micron 64L TLC

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950

Silicon Motion SM2262EN

Random Read 390k IOPS (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark)
Random Write 370k IOPS

Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec.

The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec
(consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available
in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of
PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates
hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec
cannot be achieved).

*******

SRG SX8200

older SM2262 controller ??? Dunno

Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA
branding on the above article example. Double check the branding.

*******

WD black SN750

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review

"Secret squirrel brand controller"

Size-dependent IOP, like all designs.

Random Read 220k IOPS 420k IOPS 515k IOPS 480k IOPS
Random Write 180k IOPS 380k IOPS 560k IOPS 550k IOPS

Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model.

The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read.

[The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).]

*******

Throw in one more.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review

Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/
Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions.
Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all.
It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating",
where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to
English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass".

Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange).

The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity.
(As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".)

You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus
and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write.

Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to
compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings.

You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the
product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of
a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom
gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing
2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed,
without something getting warm :-)

The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form
factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably
over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA
when writing.

Paul
  #30  
Old April 28th 19, 02:56 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/27/2019 5:47 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and
now find the prices quite attractive.
I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB
unit as follows.

HP EX 950
SRG SX8200
WD black SN750

Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I
am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews
and
these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and
can't
decide which one to buy.
So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would
appreciate their input, Thanks in advance.

I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is
Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other
brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2
NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers
that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280
is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo
physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold
down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at
the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away
some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or
stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an
informed decision and you'll be fine.

One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which
specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast
boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no
longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been
that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA.


Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all
lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws,
Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive.
Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price
ones should be OK.

Thanks, Rene




HP EX 950

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html

Â*Â* "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write"Â* Bull**** (violates a law
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* of physics)

Â*Â* DRAMÂ*Â*Â* 512MB DDR3 etc.Â* (various sizes of DRAM cache)
Â*Â* Micron 64L TLC

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950

Â*Â* Silicon Motion SM2262EN

Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 390k IOPSÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark)
Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 370k IOPS

Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec.

Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec
Â*Â* (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available
Â*Â*Â* in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of
Â*Â*Â* PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates
Â*Â*Â* hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec
Â*Â*Â* cannot be achieved).

*******

SRG SX8200

Â*Â* older SM2262 controller ??? Dunn

Â*Â* Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA
Â*Â* branding on the above article example. Double check the branding.

*******

WD black SN750

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review


Â*Â* "Secret squirrel brand controller"

Â*Â* Size-dependent IOP, like all designs.

Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 220k IOPSÂ* 420k IOPSÂ* 515k IOPSÂ* 480k IOPS
Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 180k IOPSÂ* 380k IOPSÂ* 560k IOPSÂ* 550k IOPS

Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model.

Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read.

Â*Â* [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph
(2300MB/sec).]

*******

Throw in one more.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review

Â*Â* Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/
Â*Â* Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions.
Â*Â* Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all.
Â*Â* It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating",
Â*Â* where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to
Â*Â* English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass".

Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model
(orange).

Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity.
Â*Â* (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".)

You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus
and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write.

Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to
compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings.

You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the
product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of
a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom
gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing
2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed,
without something getting warm :-)

The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form
factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably
over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA
when writing.

Â*Â* Paul



The new SRG SX8200 PRO is 512 instead of 480 and sports the new SM2262en
controller, Yes both that one and the HP are very nearly identical.

I have read so many long reviews today my Eyeballs are still spinning. :-)
It was a real learning experience believe me but worth it,
Trusting my judgement and trying to remember all the facts with lots of
notes.
I chose Door 2, The Adata SRG SX8200 512 GB unit and ordered it from
Amazon at a price of $129 cdn. free shipping 2 day delivery.

When I get all this stuff bolted together I will certainly do a lot of
bench-marking and post results and then the truth will shine forth.
I am really looking forward to this as I haven't done a new build in 9
years
Thanks for your help and research

Rene




 




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