TL Lamp, Bad wire, Orange glow, Hot block, Fuse blown ?

Hello,

The TL lamp on the ceiling in my kitchen is acting up a bit strangely.

(As I wrote before, it failed in the morning Prince died =D )

It started to glow orange.

Today I investigated further and made some videos of it.

The first video shows a bad wire, the lamp coming on without the fuse in
place:

https://youtu.be/nz2h64yYo3U

This bad wire was always like that, it's from previous owners living here.

I wonder if this bad wire might have somehow caused a short circuit ? Maybe
there was a strange kind of spike/spark causing it to arc to the rest ?

"Transients" or something a known phenomenon in electrical grids. Anyway I
did not notice any popping or sparks when I tried to turn it on that day.

The second video shows what happens when the fuse (I assume it's a fuse ?)
is attached, it starts to glow orange:

https://youtu.be/Zd5DXxIig28

Why does it glow orange ? Is that supposed to be a warning sign/indicator ?

The last video shows this strange block inside the lamp, not sure what this
is ? Perhaps some kind of "adapter" to change 220 volts into something else
?

It seems to get hot when the lamp glows orange, so I consider that a
somewhat dangerous situation. When the lamp burns normally I assume it stays
cool, haven't really checked that thoroughly yet though...

https://youtu.be/cXkc_tfp5ek

Please give some advice to what you make of all this ?

Some remaining questions:

Why does this TL lamp come with it's own fuse ?

Would it be dangerous to use it without the fuse ?

What would be the risks/dangers of using it without the fuse ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

P.S.: (Let's consider this a 1 bit computer lol on/off =D so I add this
pc-homebuilt group too in case you don't have the electronics group ! )

On 23/04/2016 7:26 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
Hello,

The TL lamp on the ceiling in my kitchen is acting up a bit strangely.

(As I wrote before, it failed in the morning Prince died =D )

It started to glow orange.

Today I investigated further and made some videos of it.

The first video shows a bad wire, the lamp coming on without the fuse in
place:

https://youtu.be/nz2h64yYo3U

This bad wire was always like that, it's from previous owners living here.

I wonder if this bad wire might have somehow caused a short circuit ?
Maybe there was a strange kind of spike/spark causing it to arc to the
rest ?

"Transients" or something a known phenomenon in electrical grids. Anyway
I did not notice any popping or sparks when I tried to turn it on that day.

The second video shows what happens when the fuse (I assume it's a fuse
?) is attached, it starts to glow orange:

https://youtu.be/Zd5DXxIig28

Why does it glow orange ? Is that supposed to be a warning sign/indicator ?

The last video shows this strange block inside the lamp, not sure what
this is ? Perhaps some kind of "adapter" to change 220 volts into
something else ?

It seems to get hot when the lamp glows orange, so I consider that a
somewhat dangerous situation. When the lamp burns normally I assume it
stays cool, haven't really checked that thoroughly yet though...

https://youtu.be/cXkc_tfp5ek

Please give some advice to what you make of all this ?

Some remaining questions:

Why does this TL lamp come with it's own fuse ?

Would it be dangerous to use it without the fuse ?

What would be the risks/dangers of using it without the fuse ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

P.S.: (Let's consider this a 1 bit computer lol on/off =D so I add
this pc-homebuilt group too in case you don't have the electronics
group ! )

The device is not a fuse, it's a "starter switch". It is designed to
turn the filaments of the tube on and off. The glow you are seeing is
the filaments at each end of the tube. Since you have removed the
starter they are turned on for as long as you have the starter out.
Starter switches wear out after a time as does the tube. Running it for
prolonged times with the starter out will greatly decrease the life of
the tube.

I thought I was done with this story but there is more too it.

I was just cleaning up the excessive lamps and boxes and such and thought
that just the starter was bad and that I could continue using the old lamp
!?

Well guess what ?!

The lamp itself is also bad... it flickers in a somewhat strange manner.

So:

1. The starter is bad. (proved this by replacing the lamp and removing the
starter)
2. The lamp itself is also bad. (proved this by removing the starter and
placing back the "original" lamp).

Now a spooky question comes to mind:

What could have caused both devices to fail at the same time ?

Is such an occurence/event known to occur ?!?

The documentation from osram does advice to replace both lamp and starter
during the replacement of a lamp.

Anyway back to question, what could have caused both devices to fail at same
time ?

Let's examine possibilities:

1. Bad starter damaged lamp.

This possibility seems unlikely, the starter was tested with a new lamp. The
new lamp does not come on with the starter but stays orange. Even after
repeatedly on/off/on/off with bad started attached, the new lamp will remain
functioning, a bad starter does not seem to damage the new lamp immediatly.
I tested this just yet, I risked damaging the lamp but such damage did not
occur. The new lamp does flicker a bit before turning on completely.

2. Bad lamp damaged starter ?

This seems to be the only possibility to remain. Could the bad lamp somehow
have damaged the starter ?

I do not have a replacement starter so I cannot test this possibility to see
if a bad lamp could damage a new starter ?

All in all quite a strange occurence.

The history of this system was that a bad lamp has been replaced in the
passed, as far as I know the starter was never replaced.

I leave you now with proof/a video that the lamp is bad too:

video part 4 of 4:

https://youtu.be/S2H9SldFsbQ

Bye,
Skybuck.

Ok that strange... one of the new lamps won't come on... maybe I did damage
it by connecting it to the bad starter.

Well I won't repeat the test with another new lamp otherwise I will ramp out
of functioning lamps ?!

Or perhaps the new lamp was actually already bad... but it doesn't seem like
it... I'm pretty sure both new lamps functioned... now one new lamp won't
come on.. even if starter is not connected..

Hmmm...

So for now I will assume:

1. Bad starter can actually damage new lamp ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

It's possible I placed back a bad lamp some time ago just to pull a prank on
myself... and to see if I could figure it out ! LOL. STUPID ! LOL.

Now I kinda regret such thoughts/things/deeds.

Because now I am starting to doubt myself... now I am not sure if both
lamps... worked... three lamps in total.

The old one, definetly bad... and two new ones... one of which is now also
bad it seems.

Though once I get a new starter if at all... then I can test if those two
lamps are indeed both bad.

For now on I will just have to through away bad electrical components
otherwise I can't be sure of my electricity time travel EXPERIMENTS !
LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

And predictive powers ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck =D

Skybuck Flying wrote:
It's possible I placed back a bad lamp some time ago just to pull a
prank on myself... and to see if I could figure it out ! LOL. STUPID ! LOL.

Now I kinda regret such thoughts/things/deeds.

Because now I am starting to doubt myself... now I am not sure if both
lamps... worked... three lamps in total.

The old one, definetly bad... and two new ones... one of which is now
also bad it seems.

Though once I get a new starter if at all... then I can test if those
two lamps are indeed both bad.

For now on I will just have to through away bad electrical components
otherwise I can't be sure of my electricity time travel EXPERIMENTS !
LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

And predictive powers ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck =D


http://www.osram.com/media/resource/...---starter.pdf

Paul

"
http://www.osram.com/media/resource/...---starter.pdf
"

How come I can start the current kitchen TL lamp without a starter ?

I don't quite get why this starter is necessary ?

Is it to force TL lamps of lesser quality to also start ?

Is it to ensure that as the TL lamp wears down it can still start ?

Is it to speed up the starting of the TL lamp ?

Is it to prevent the TL lamp from wearing out faster and somebody wrote ?

It only says to heat up elements, don't quite get why that would be
necessary seeing that the TL lamp already starts ?!

Hmmm...

Bye,
Skybuck.

Skybuck Flying wrote:
"
http://www.osram.com/media/resource/...---starter.pdf

"

How come I can start the current kitchen TL lamp without a starter ?

I don't quite get why this starter is necessary ?

Is it to force TL lamps of lesser quality to also start ?

Is it to ensure that as the TL lamp wears down it can still start ?

Is it to speed up the starting of the TL lamp ?

Is it to prevent the TL lamp from wearing out faster and somebody wrote ?

It only says to heat up elements, don't quite get why that would be
necessary seeing that the TL lamp already starts ?!

Hmmm...

Bye,
Skybuck.

I have no idea what a TL lamp is.

Ah, OK, the terminology is explained here.

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/...menclature.htm

T=Tension (voltage), L=Laag (low)

And there are a whole pile of Philips tubes of
that description in the list.

*******

The OSRAM technical guide document in my previous post,
gives information on what the ST-111 starter does. Normally,
with the wide variety of sockets and fittings, you're
prevented from mixing the wrong ones together, just
by the nature of the electrodes, tube dimensions
and so on.

The starter is delivering a single inductive "spike"
to the just-heated mercury vapor. (The starter has
a bimetallic strip and heater inside it, to time the
start sequence.) Once the tube begins to conduct
(because of the "spike" to prime the conduction path),
the tube runs without needing the services of the starter
any longer. Until the next time you need to switch the
light on.

Take the light and starter to a "lighting store", to make
sure you're mixing the right items together. I have a couple
stores like that here, where I get obscure bulbs for things
(the halogen bulb in my floor lamp). While department
stores have most standard bulbs, if you need technical
help, a proper lighting store, at least they will have
the catalog with the list of tube and starters that
can be mixed together. The staff in department stores
don't know anything about that stuff, but a lighting
store, one that sells track lighting systems, or
obscure light bulb types like this one, they'll
know exactly what is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...d_luminescence

Paul

Take the light and starter to a "lighting store", to make
sure you're mixing the right items together. I have a couple
stores like that here, where I get obscure bulbs for things
(the halogen bulb in my floor lamp). While department
stores have most standard bulbs, if you need technical
help, a proper lighting store, at least they will have
the catalog with the list of tube and starters that
can be mixed together. The staff in department stores
don't know anything about that stuff, but a lighting
store, one that sells track lighting systems, or
obscure light bulb types like this one, they'll
know exactly what is needed.

"
4-80w starters are a standard universal part. Just check the new one is
4-80w or covers the tube wattage.
"

Hello,

I did do as suggested took the TL lamp in it's box and bag and starter to
the store.

I said to the guy: "carefull with that lamp".

After purchasing the new starters he said: "I thought the lamp was bad"

So a bit dangerous ! =D

2 starters were bought for 4 euros. (3.99)

The new starters seemed a bit different, it says:

PHILIPS
CE
S10
ECOCLICK STARTER
4-65W
220-240V
SINGLE
UL, EN EC 05 SA EAC
Made in The Netherlands
LM
56789/\

I asked about the 4-65W range which seems different.

Good thing I brought lamp, guy pointed to box of lamp and said:

He: "See that lamp".

Me: "Yeah it's 35 watts"

He: "So it's in range, that's what matters"

Me convinced it was a good deal, so the starter were bought.

I just tested all 3 TL lamps and all are working.

Since the starters are much cheaper than the LT lamps I have decided to
place back the old TL lamp which still works together with the new starter
and will see how long it lasts !

So far all seems fine again !

However I did notice the adapter (?) does get quite hot ! And the starter
also a little bit. Not sure if that is normal but this does convince me to
keep that light off as much as possible to prevent it's lifetime from being
reduced by possible overheat ! Not too mention my dad once said these
lamps costs lots of energy... well seeing the 35 watt rating doesn't seem
that bad ?!

Bye,
Skybuck =D

P.S.: Thanks for the advice it came in much handy ! =D (I went to handy
store ! LOL =D)

On 2016-04-25, Skybuck Flying wrote:

However I did notice the adapter (?) does get quite hot ! And the starter
also a little bit. Not sure if that is normal but this does convince me to
keep that light off as much as possible to prevent it's lifetime from being
reduced by possible overheat ! Not too mention my dad once said these
lamps costs lots of energy... well seeing the 35 watt rating doesn't seem
that bad ?!

starters operate by heat, the starting current heats the bimetallic
contacts until they open, and then a gas discharge keeps them

--
\_(ツ)_