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#1
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
Hi,
Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? Thanks, Samantha |
#2
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
On Aug 16, 5:06 pm, "Samantha" none wrote:
Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? Step back a minute. Due to shotgunning, then integrity of the power supply 'system' is still unkonwn. For example, a swapped in power supply in one sysetm can appear to be defective in another - because it was actually marginal in both systems. Another problem. Assumed is an entire power supply 'system' is only a power supply. Also wrong. A power supply is only one component of a power supply 'system'. Without numbers and other data, then better informed posters cannot answer with a useful reply. That means using a 3.5 digit mulitmeter (and two minutes) to obtain numbers and establish integrity of the entire power supply 'system'. In your case, the relevant part of this procedure is to have computer access all peripherals simultaneously (multitask) and then take voltage measurements on any one of orange, purple, red, and yellow wires. Entire procedure (including part important to you) is "When your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at: http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh If the power 'system' is not confirmed good, then it may cause everything else to appear defective. That only creates even more confusion. A computer can work just fine for ten minutes when the power supply 'system' always has numbers that are defective. Those numbers are most relevant when load is maximum. Therefore watch a movie, while reading (or writing to) a CD-Rom, while downloading from the internet, while reading the disk drive, etc ... all simultaneously. When doing all this, only then will some defective power supplies be detected by numbers. Notice all those things are running, but the power supply is defective - and would cause crashes later. Post those numbers here (even if good) because numbers may also contain further useful information. Ram is tested good. Then the same test is performed again when computer is in a room of 100 degree F - a perfectly good computer temperature. Or RAM is heated with a hairdryer on highest heat. Any Ram that fails a diagnostic test in the computer (must be in your computer - not elsewhere) is defective or motherboard semiconductors talking to that memory is defective. If it also passes at elevated temperatures, then move on to other suspects. Very few items can shutdown a computer. That short list is memory, power supply, CPU, video card, sound card, and some motherboard functions. Everything else including disk drive, keyboard, monitor, and mouse are not on a usual suspect list. Anything can appear defective if numbers from a loaded power supply are not obtained using that multimeter. Not having a meter is not even an option since meters are sold even to K-mart shoppers. Swapping parts tells us nothing useful and sometimes makes the problem exponentially complex. Temperatures from the motherboard temperature monitor may be useful. But again, to solve a problem, get numbers and other diagnostic facts. Do not speculate. First identify a suspect long before trying to fix anything. Heat is a diagnostic tool. If heat creates problems, then fix the defective part. Don't cure symptoms by adding fans. Problem is solved first by breaking the problem down into parts. Then establish each part as 'known good' or 'known bad'. Currently you don't know of anything in either state. Everything is still questionable - unknown. Start by first confirming entire power supply 'system' integrity. Don't shotgun - swapping parts as if that proves anything. Demonstrated - a defective (marginal) power supply can still make computer appear to be working. |
#3
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
maybe it is overheating.........what temps are you showing in the
BIOS??..keep it in the BIOS for 10-15 minutes and watch the temps maybe your Temp shut dowm limit is too low??...what is it set at??.....in the BIOS peter "Samantha" none wrote in message ... Hi, Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? Thanks, Samantha |
#4
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
"w_tom"
| On Aug 16, 5:06 pm, "Samantha" none wrote: | Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using | another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) | | I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 | minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the | power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the | RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as | expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board | or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm | concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the | problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is | the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? | | Step back a minute. Due to shotgunning, then integrity of the power | supply 'system' is still unkonwn. For example, a swapped in power | supply in one sysetm can appear to be defective in another - because | it was actually marginal in both systems. Another problem. Assumed | is an entire power supply 'system' is only a power supply. Also | wrong. A power supply is only one component of a power supply | 'system'. | | Without numbers and other data, then better informed posters cannot | answer with a useful reply. That means using a 3.5 digit mulitmeter | (and two minutes) to obtain numbers and establish integrity of the | entire power supply 'system'. In your case, the relevant part of this | procedure is to have computer access all peripherals simultaneously | (multitask) and then take voltage measurements on any one of orange, | purple, red, and yellow wires. Entire procedure (including part | important to you) is "When your computer dies without warning....." | starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at: | http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh | | If the power 'system' is not confirmed good, then it may cause | everything else to appear defective. That only creates even more | confusion. A computer can work just fine for ten minutes when the | power supply 'system' always has numbers that are defective. Those | numbers are most relevant when load is maximum. Therefore watch a | movie, while reading (or writing to) a CD-Rom, while downloading from | the internet, while reading the disk drive, etc ... all | simultaneously. When doing all this, only then will some defective | power supplies be detected by numbers. Notice all those things are | running, but the power supply is defective - and would cause crashes | later. Post those numbers here (even if good) because numbers may | also contain further useful information. | | Ram is tested good. Then the same test is performed again when | computer is in a room of 100 degree F - a perfectly good computer | temperature. Or RAM is heated with a hairdryer on highest heat. Any | Ram that fails a diagnostic test in the computer (must be in your | computer - not elsewhere) is defective or motherboard semiconductors | talking to that memory is defective. If it also passes at elevated | temperatures, then move on to other suspects. | | Very few items can shutdown a computer. That short list is memory, | power supply, CPU, video card, sound card, and some motherboard | functions. Everything else including disk drive, keyboard, monitor, | and mouse are not on a usual suspect list. Anything can appear | defective if numbers from a loaded power supply are not obtained using | that multimeter. Not having a meter is not even an option since | meters are sold even to K-mart shoppers. | | Swapping parts tells us nothing useful and sometimes makes the | problem exponentially complex. Temperatures from the motherboard | temperature monitor may be useful. But again, to solve a problem, get | numbers and other diagnostic facts. Do not speculate. First identify | a suspect long before trying to fix anything. | | Heat is a diagnostic tool. If heat creates problems, then fix the | defective part. Don't cure symptoms by adding fans. Problem is solved | first by breaking the problem down into parts. Then establish each | part as 'known good' or 'known bad'. Currently you don't know of | anything in either state. Everything is still questionable - | unknown. Start by first confirming entire power supply 'system' | integrity. Don't shotgun - swapping parts as if that proves | anything. Demonstrated - a defective (marginal) power supply can | still make computer appear to be working. You mentioned something interesting that I did not consider - the video card. It was acting strange for a bit and it's old one Geforce 5600FX Ultra. For some reason the OS switched to a PAL setup when it should have been NTSC. I first noticed it in Excel. The video card worked but it didn't with tv-out, obviously. The regional settings were set at US even though I wasn't getting '$' but Euro in Excel. After uninstalling and reinstall new and old video drivers I finally noticed that it was using PAL. I switched it to NTSC and it worked for 3-4 days and then started acting up by rebooting after 10 minutes. Unfortunatly, I just busted one of the legs on the cpu fan and I don't have an extra one to replace. Rather than possibly wasting money on a cpu fan, I ordered a new board and chip, upgrading to the core duo side. Now I'm concerned about the Geforce actually might be the problem. Is it safe to use with the new parts? As far as the power supply, the original one has been working non-stop in another computer for 3-days without an issue. It's handling power intensive apps like video cap, re-rendering and gaming like a charm. I'm persuaded to believe that this is not the problem. I still would like to salvage the P4 if possible. If (and hopefully) the video card is not the problem... going back to my original question, is there a way to test either the board or chip without using a replacement? |
#5
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
"peter"
| maybe it is overheating.........what temps are you showing in the | BIOS??..keep it in the BIOS for 10-15 minutes and watch the temps | maybe your Temp shut dowm limit is too low??...what is it set at??.....in | the BIOS | peter Hi Peter. At the moment I can't recheck because as I mentioned in the other post, I busted one of the legs on the cpu fan. It was running a bit warmer than I liked - around 125 degrees but I think I read somewhere that this board's shutdown limit is around 145-150. Even though idealy it should be around 110-115, it appears to be within the acceptable parameters, unless the info I read was incorrect. There isn't a setting for the shutdown limit, perhaps that's one of the functions of the AI. Do these setting seam reasonable to you? |
#6
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
On Aug 17, 1:45 pm, "Samantha" none wrote:
As far as the power supply, the original one has been working non-stop in another computer for 3-days without an issue. It's handling power intensive apps like video cap, re-rendering and gaming like a charm. I'm persuaded to believe that this is not the problem. I still would like to salvage the P4 if possible. If (and hopefully) the video card is not the problem... going back to my original question, is there a way to test either the board or chip without using a replacement? Exactly my point. A defective supply can do exactly as you have posted for numerous technical reasons that could be learned if using the meter. For example, do you know about the signaling between a power supply and the rest of the system? If bad signaling was compensated for in that second machine, then power supply would work just fine. You are assuming the entire function in a power supply is power output. Many other functions are ongoing with is why a defective supply can appear to be working just fine in a second system. BTW, why do we fix things? Not to save time or money. We do it to learn. Just another reason to get the meter to learn why a supply that works just fine in a second system may actually be defective. Swapping parts to fix a problem would teach nothing useful. Meanwhile, that CPU is Intel? Then CPU will run slower during higher temperatures - not crash and reboot. Computer must work just fine even when room (and therefore CPU) temperatures increase 20 degrees C. If temperature were a problem (and not just CPU), then problem would occur very quickly when operated in a 100 degree F room or when first heated as hot as possible with a hairdryer on highest heat. Heat is a diagnostic tool. |
#7
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
If your running the CPU at 125 in a 100 degree room...temps are not the
problem...at least not CPU temp. Which brings us to the Video card.................maybe its time for a new one... But its all moot now that you have ordered a new mobo and CPU. When you've put that together take a look at the temps of the Video Card....NVidea Control Panel...or upgrade it at the same time. peter "Samantha" none wrote in message ... "peter" | maybe it is overheating.........what temps are you showing in the | BIOS??..keep it in the BIOS for 10-15 minutes and watch the temps | maybe your Temp shut dowm limit is too low??...what is it set at??.....in | the BIOS | peter Hi Peter. At the moment I can't recheck because as I mentioned in the other post, I busted one of the legs on the cpu fan. It was running a bit warmer than I liked - around 125 degrees but I think I read somewhere that this board's shutdown limit is around 145-150. Even though idealy it should be around 110-115, it appears to be within the acceptable parameters, unless the info I read was incorrect. There isn't a setting for the shutdown limit, perhaps that's one of the functions of the AI. Do these setting seam reasonable to you? |
#8
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
When you get down to the motherboard OR CPU, and if everything else has
been **correctly** eliminated, it is almost always the motherboard. CPU chips very rarely fail unless they are grossly abused by overheating or overvoltage. There is really no way for an end-user to really test these components other than by substitution. Are you SURE that the heatsink is mounted properly? I'd watch a CPU temperature monitor (based on the INTERNAL CPU temperature sensor of the chip itself) while (e.g. until) the failure occured to rule out overheating. How did "someone test the RAM"? Samantha wrote: Hi, Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? Thanks, Samantha |
#9
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
I tried the video card in another computer and it's working good.
Back to square one, but I'm glad it's not the card. I guess down the road I'll get a used mb to test the cpu. Thanks for your help, Peter. Samantha "peter" | If your running the CPU at 125 in a 100 degree room...temps are not the | problem...at least not CPU temp. | Which brings us to the Video card.................maybe its time for a new | one... | But its all moot now that you have ordered a new mobo and CPU. | When you've put that together take a look at the temps of the Video | Card....NVidea Control Panel...or upgrade it at the same time. | peter | | "peter" | | maybe it is overheating.........what temps are you showing in the | | BIOS??..keep it in the BIOS for 10-15 minutes and watch the temps | | maybe your Temp shut dowm limit is too low??...what is it set | at??.....in | | the BIOS | | peter | | Hi Peter. At the moment I can't recheck because as I mentioned in | the other post, I busted one of the legs on the cpu fan. It was | running a bit warmer than I liked - around 125 degrees but I think I | read somewhere that this board's shutdown limit is around 145-150. | Even though idealy it should be around 110-115, it appears to be | within the acceptable parameters, unless the info I read was | incorrect. There isn't a setting for the shutdown limit, perhaps | that's one of the functions of the AI. Do these setting seam | reasonable to you? |
#10
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Troubleshooting MB and CPU
Hi Barry. I pretty much resolved to let it go for now until I can
get a used mb. But to answer your questions, yes I did check the heatsink and dusted out all the fans. As far as the RAM, I tried it in another computer first and it seamed fine but you never know. So I took it to someone who had diagnostic software and everything passed. (didn't check the name of the program) I think at this point I'm at a dead-end until I can get another mb, unless you have another suggestion. Thanks for replying. "Barry Watzman" | When you get down to the motherboard OR CPU, and if everything else has | been **correctly** eliminated, it is almost always the motherboard. CPU | chips very rarely fail unless they are grossly abused by overheating or | overvoltage. | | There is really no way for an end-user to really test these components | other than by substitution. | | Are you SURE that the heatsink is mounted properly? I'd watch a CPU | temperature monitor (based on the INTERNAL CPU temperature sensor of the | chip itself) while (e.g. until) the failure occured to rule out overheating. | | How did "someone test the RAM"? | | Samantha wrote: | Hi, | | Is there a way to troubleshoot a motherboard or cpu without using | another motherboard or cpu? (Concern about frying something) | | I have another P4800-E Deluxe MB with a P43.0 chip. After about 10 | minutes it keeps rebooting like it's overheating. I changed out the | power supply but that didn't fix the problem. Had someone test the | RAM and it's good. The BIOS shows that the cpu fan is running as | expected so the only thing left I can think of is either the board | or chip. Is there something I can do to find out which one? I'm | concerned about putting the chip in another board if that's the | problem or taking a chance on frying another chip if the board is | the problem. Is there a way to test one of them? | | Thanks, | Samantha | | |
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