Monitor advice

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 01:48:00 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

| Larc wrote:
|
| This is a bit off topic, but I have a question that should
| benefit from answers here.
|
| My main computer is usually turned on shortly after I get
| up in the morning and not shut down until just before I go
| to bed at night. I've also been turning off the monitor,
| but am wondering if it would be better -- or at least no
| worse -- to just leave it on. If too much of Windows loads
| before I switch it on, some visual settings are affected.
| I'd like to avoid chances of that by leaving it on. Specs
| show my monitor draws only 0.5W in sleep mode, which is
| only 0.2W more than it draws when turned off. Are there
| any significant negative factors in leaving it on?
|
| You mean "in leaving it in sleep mode". Because you want the
| screen to automatically come on when the computer is
| starting.
|
| In other words... You are talking about the small amount of
| electronics inside of the monitor that still run when the
| monitor is in sleep mode.
|
| Sounds like something that can be researched, in addition to
| asking here.

I just wanted opinions from some here, nothing scientific.

| I am curious about what visual settings might be affected. Do
| you have a touchscreen monitor? I did not know that any
| ordinary monitor sends any data back to Windows. Or at least
| not any data that changes any settings. Unless maybe you are
| using a laptop with an external monitor connection.

Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if the monitor is switched on after
involved drivers and settings have loaded. Rebooting fixes the icons, but not the
fonts. I have to run a .reg file to make Registry corrections and reboot again to
get them back in order. It's a 4K monitor with native resolution of 3840x2160 and
with Windows display scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't getting the
feedback it expects if it doesn't "see" the monitor in time.

Larc

Larc wrote:

John Doe wrote:
| Larc wrote:
|
| This is a bit off topic, but I have a question that
| should benefit from answers here.
|
| My main computer is usually turned on shortly after I
| get up in the morning and not shut down until just
| before I go to bed at night. I've also been turning off
| the monitor, but am wondering if it would be better --
| or at least no worse -- to just leave it on. If too
| much of Windows loads before I switch it on, some visual
| settings are affected. I'd like to avoid chances of that
| by leaving it on. Specs show my monitor draws only 0.5W
| in sleep mode, which is only 0.2W more than it draws
| when turned off. Are there any significant negative
| factors in leaving it on?
|
| You mean "in leaving it in sleep mode". Because you want
| the screen to automatically come on when the computer is
| starting.
|
| In other words... You are talking about the small amount
| of electronics inside of the monitor that still run when
| the monitor is in sleep mode.
|
| Sounds like something that can be researched, in addition
| to asking here.

I just wanted opinions from some here, nothing scientific.

| I am curious about what visual settings might be affected.
| Do you have a touchscreen monitor? I did not know that any
| ordinary monitor sends any data back to Windows. Or at
| least not any data that changes any settings. Unless maybe
| you are using a laptop with an external monitor
| connection.

Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if the
monitor is switched on after involved drivers and settings
have loaded. Rebooting fixes the icons, but not the fonts.
I have to run a .reg file to make Registry corrections and
reboot again to get them back in order. It's a 4K monitor
with native resolution of 3840x2160 and with Windows
display scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't
getting the feedback it expects if it doesn't "see" the
monitor in time.

After starting, what happens if you turn the monitor off and
then back on again? I have customized the display, including
all of those things like display scaling (currently set to
150%) since the beginning of time, never experienced or heard
of that problem. Sounds like something is messed up.

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:14:53 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

| Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if the
| monitor is switched on after involved drivers and settings
| have loaded. Rebooting fixes the icons, but not the fonts.
| I have to run a .reg file to make Registry corrections and
| reboot again to get them back in order. It's a 4K monitor
| with native resolution of 3840x2160 and with Windows
| display scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't
| getting the feedback it expects if it doesn't "see" the
| monitor in time.
|
| After starting, what happens if you turn the monitor off and
| then back on again? I have customized the display, including
| all of those things like display scaling (currently set to
| 150%) since the beginning of time, never experienced or heard
| of that problem. Sounds like something is messed up.

Nothing happens if I turn the monitor off and back on. It seems to be a matter of
whether Windows "sees" the monitor when it starts. I agree something could be wrong
since I never experienced anything like this with another monitor. Don't know if
this could be at the bottom of it, but the Samsung 850 EVO SSD that serves as my
system drive isn't on the approved list for my motherboard. In fact, no Samsung SATA
SSDs are. I've been thinking of changing to an M.2 SSD. The one I'm looking at
(ADATA ASX7000NP 128GB) is approved.

Larc

Larc wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:14:53 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

| Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if the
| monitor is switched on after involved drivers and settings
| have loaded. Rebooting fixes the icons, but not the fonts.
| I have to run a .reg file to make Registry corrections and
| reboot again to get them back in order. It's a 4K monitor
| with native resolution of 3840x2160 and with Windows
| display scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't
| getting the feedback it expects if it doesn't "see" the
| monitor in time.
|
| After starting, what happens if you turn the monitor off and
| then back on again? I have customized the display, including
| all of those things like display scaling (currently set to
| 150%) since the beginning of time, never experienced or heard
| of that problem. Sounds like something is messed up.

Nothing happens if I turn the monitor off and back on. It seems to be a matter of
whether Windows "sees" the monitor when it starts. I agree something could be wrong
since I never experienced anything like this with another monitor.

EDID table EEPROM
Computer ------------------------------ Monitor
serial clock and data

The setup information (256 bytes) is stored in an EEPROM.
The EEPROM needs +5V to power it.

At one time, the VGA cable had a +5V pin. It looked like the
intention was, when the monitor was not powered, the computer
could power the private interface on the EDID and read it out.
The monitor itself, neither knows nor cares about EDID.

The EDID is effectively Plug and Play information from the
monitor to the computer.

When there is a malfunction, when the video card appears
to initially be set at the wrong resolution, the monitor
is turned on, the resolution changes, the icons go wrong...
these are all signs the EDID needed a power source and
didn't have it, when the OS needed to read the information.

*******

If we take HDMI as an example, and take the pinout from here, we get:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi

Pin 15 SCL (I2C serial clock for DDC)
Pin 16 SDA (I2C serial data for DDC)
Pin 17 Ground (for DDC, CEC, ARC, and HEC)
Pin 18 +5 V (min. 0.055 A)

The 55 milliamps from the computer to the LCD monitor in
that case, should be 10x the amount needed to read some
little EDID chip. The Wikipedia article makes comments
about attempts to run "appliances" off that power source,
other than the EDID chip itself. Because, after all,
designers see a +5V source like that, and they go nuts.
Think of the product cost that can be shaved off, if you
run your HDMI line buffer off that, instead of including
a $15 wall adapter.

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=13#42

*******

So what happened on VGA, is the +5V pin was removed.

http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15.shtml

9 Key Key (No pin) / Optional +5V output from graphics card

It's pretty hard for any power to flow, if the pin is missing...
If the power is missing, and the LCD is off, it would be
pretty difficult for the EDID chip to answer a query over
the SCL/SDA pins.

Paul

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:54:24 -0400, Paul wrote:

| Larc wrote:
| On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:14:53 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
| wrote:
|
| | Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if the
| | monitor is switched on after involved drivers and settings
| | have loaded. Rebooting fixes the icons, but not the fonts.
| | I have to run a .reg file to make Registry corrections and
| | reboot again to get them back in order. It's a 4K monitor
| | with native resolution of 3840x2160 and with Windows
| | display scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't
| | getting the feedback it expects if it doesn't "see" the
| | monitor in time.
| |
| | After starting, what happens if you turn the monitor off and
| | then back on again? I have customized the display, including
| | all of those things like display scaling (currently set to
| | 150%) since the beginning of time, never experienced or heard
| | of that problem. Sounds like something is messed up.
|
| Nothing happens if I turn the monitor off and back on. It seems to be a matter of
| whether Windows "sees" the monitor when it starts. I agree something could be wrong
| since I never experienced anything like this with another monitor.
|
| EDID table EEPROM
| Computer ------------------------------ Monitor
| serial clock and data
|
| The setup information (256 bytes) is stored in an EEPROM.
| The EEPROM needs +5V to power it.
|
| At one time, the VGA cable had a +5V pin. It looked like the
| intention was, when the monitor was not powered, the computer
| could power the private interface on the EDID and read it out.
| The monitor itself, neither knows nor cares about EDID.
|
| The EDID is effectively Plug and Play information from the
| monitor to the computer.
|
| When there is a malfunction, when the video card appears
| to initially be set at the wrong resolution, the monitor
| is turned on, the resolution changes, the icons go wrong...
| these are all signs the EDID needed a power source and
| didn't have it, when the OS needed to read the information.
|
| *******
|
| If we take HDMI as an example, and take the pinout from here, we get:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi
|
| Pin 15 SCL (I2C serial clock for DDC)
| Pin 16 SDA (I2C serial data for DDC)
| Pin 17 Ground (for DDC, CEC, ARC, and HEC)
| Pin 18 +5 V (min. 0.055 A)
|
| The 55 milliamps from the computer to the LCD monitor in
| that case, should be 10x the amount needed to read some
| little EDID chip. The Wikipedia article makes comments
| about attempts to run "appliances" off that power source,
| other than the EDID chip itself. Because, after all,
| designers see a +5V source like that, and they go nuts.
| Think of the product cost that can be shaved off, if you
| run your HDMI line buffer off that, instead of including
| a $15 wall adapter.
|
| http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=13#42
|
| *******
|
| So what happened on VGA, is the +5V pin was removed.
|
| http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15.shtml
|
| 9 Key Key (No pin) / Optional +5V output from graphics card
|
| It's pretty hard for any power to flow, if the pin is missing...
| If the power is missing, and the LCD is off, it would be
| pretty difficult for the EDID chip to answer a query over
| the SCL/SDA pins.
|
| Paul

I'm using the DisplayPort connection. Resolution is correct even if I wait to turn
the monitor on until after Windows has booted. Scaling is also correct. It's just
some desktop icon sizes (256x256 icons are still correct, but smaller ones -- eg.
128x128 -- have shrunken) and font size settings that are affected (title bars,
menus, message boxes, palette titles, icons and tool tips). As I said in an earlier
post, the icon size problem is corrected by a reboot. But fonts have reverted to
Windows default in the Registry (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics). I have to run a .reg file to correct size settings and
change the desktop icon font from the default Segoe UI to Lucida Sans Unicode.

None of these problems occurs if the monitor is turned on when Windows loads.

Larc

Larc wrote:

Paul wrote:
| Larc wrote:
| John Doe wrote:
|
| | Desktop icon and custom font sizes are affected if
| | the monitor is switched on after involved drivers
| | and settings have loaded. Rebooting fixes the
| | icons, but not the fonts. I have to run a .reg file
| | to make Registry corrections and reboot again to get
| | them back in order. It's a 4K monitor with native
| | resolution of 3840x2160 and with Windows display
| | scaling set to 175%, so Windows 10 probably isn't
| | getting the feedback it expects if it doesn't "see"
| | the monitor in time.
| |
| | After starting, what happens if you turn the monitor
| | off and then back on again? I have customized the
| | display, including all of those things like display
| | scaling (currently set to 150%) since the beginning of
| | time, never experienced or heard of that problem.
| | Sounds like something is messed up.
|
| Nothing happens if I turn the monitor off and back on.
| It seems to be a matter of whether Windows "sees" the
| monitor when it starts. I agree something could be
| wrong since I never experienced anything like this with
| another monitor.
|
| EDID table EEPROM
| Computer ------------------------------ Monitor
| serial clock and data
|
| The setup information (256 bytes) is stored in an EEPROM.
| The EEPROM needs +5V to power it.
|
| At one time, the VGA cable had a +5V pin. It looked like
| the intention was, when the monitor was not powered, the
| computer could power the private interface on the EDID and
| read it out. The monitor itself, neither knows nor cares
| about EDID.
|
| The EDID is effectively Plug and Play information from the
| monitor to the computer.
|
| When there is a malfunction, when the video card appears
| to initially be set at the wrong resolution, the monitor
| is turned on, the resolution changes, the icons go
| wrong... these are all signs the EDID needed a power
| source and didn't have it, when the OS needed to read the
| information.
|
| *******
|
| If we take HDMI as an example, and take the pinout from
| here, we get:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi
|
| Pin 15 SCL (I2C serial clock for DDC) Pin 16 SDA
| (I2C serial data for DDC) Pin 17 Ground (for DDC,
| CEC, ARC, and HEC) Pin 18 +5 V (min. 0.055 A)
|
| The 55 milliamps from the computer to the LCD monitor in
| that case, should be 10x the amount needed to read some
| little EDID chip. The Wikipedia article makes comments
| about attempts to run "appliances" off that power source,
| other than the EDID chip itself. Because, after all,
| designers see a +5V source like that, and they go nuts.
| Think of the product cost that can be shaved off, if you
| run your HDMI line buffer off that, instead of including
| a $15 wall adapter.
|
| http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=13#42
|
| *******
|
| So what happened on VGA, is the +5V pin was removed.
|
| http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15.shtml
|
| 9 Key Key (No pin) / Optional +5V output from
| graphics card
|
| It's pretty hard for any power to flow, if the pin is
| missing... If the power is missing, and the LCD is off, it
| would be pretty difficult for the EDID chip to answer a
| query over the SCL/SDA pins.
|
| Paul

I'm using the DisplayPort connection. Resolution is
correct even if I wait to turn the monitor on until after
Windows has booted.

In other words... The resolution is never messed up. And
since that is the problem a little research leads to, you
suspect it is not the DisplayPort.

Have you tried using HDMI or DVI, anyway?






--

Scaling is also correct. It's just some desktop icon sizes
(256x256 icons are still correct, but smaller ones -- eg.
128x128 -- have shrunken) and font size settings that are
affected (title bars, menus, message boxes, palette titles,
icons and tool tips). As I said in an earlier post, the
icon size problem is corrected by a reboot. But fonts have
reverted to Windows default in the Registry
(HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics). I
have to run a .reg file to correct size settings and change
the desktop icon font from the default Segoe UI to Lucida
Sans Unicode.

None of these problems occurs if the monitor is turned on
when Windows loads.

Larc

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:34:10 -0400, Larc
wrote:

I'm using the DisplayPort connection. Resolution is correct even if I wait to turn
the monitor on until after Windows has booted. Scaling is also correct. It's just
some desktop icon sizes (256x256 icons are still correct, but smaller ones -- eg.
128x128 -- have shrunken) and font size settings that are affected (title bars,
menus, message boxes, palette titles, icons and tool tips). As I said in an earlier
post, the icon size problem is corrected by a reboot. But fonts have reverted to
Windows default in the Registry (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics). I have to run a .reg file to correct size settings and
change the desktop icon font from the default Segoe UI to Lucida Sans Unicode.

None of these problems occurs if the monitor is turned on when Windows loads.

I get something like that, except not exactly within what you're
experiencing. If I swap in a monitor, even change resolution. Yet by
no means a steadfast rule. Nor have I meticulously taken the trouble
to narrow in on what circumstances causes Windows to rebuild a user
setting with its own default state.

I've a couple of custom folders at the far-left taskbar, where I keep
some 70 odd program icons at a specific arrangement within. Given the
number and expectancy of placement, it's difficult to say the least
when dealing when a Windows rearrangement occurs due to inexactitudes
arising over prior contingencies over monitor stipulations.

I did, however move the two physical folders, containing the icon
links, off the Windows OS disk (to instead define a central link to
just the two). Similar to registry a manipulation and redefinitions
you use, I made and keep an original binary OS restoration with
correct and working arrangements for the folders. Between the two I
get back what I want. Exceptions being, but not necessarily an
eventuality, replacement and installation of a new video card and/or
monitor;- then I need a prior snapshot jpg file of the placement,
inconvenience and time to defer to it while manually rearranging icon
placements.

I've checked several times and such manipulations are not among a
limited granularity for (freeware) programs and utilities relating to
a Windows manner and routine of handling this. They apparently
neither care, rather dare to deviate far from the afore default
behavior otherwise addressed.

Hence of minor snafus relating to a layer between the OS and hardware.
An empirical solution at best and one I suspect closer to an original
OS alignment, for most users, as well can be expected from a class of
freeware promoted for "restoring desktops", once Windows has gone amok
on a rampage, to fall within its predestined attire.

-
N. Snafu: An acronym often used by soldiers in WorldÂ*WarÂ*II: situation
normal all ****edÂ*up.
Adj. Snafu: Snarled or stalled in complete confusion.
"situation normal--all snafu"

Flasherly wrote:

Larc wrote:

I'm using the DisplayPort connection. Resolution is
correct even if I wait to turn the monitor on until after
Windows has booted. Scaling is also correct. It's just
some desktop icon sizes (256x256 icons are still correct,
but smaller ones -- eg. 128x128 -- have shrunken) and font
size settings that are affected (title bars, menus, message
boxes, palette titles, icons and tool tips). As I said in
an earlier post, the icon size problem is corrected by a
reboot. But fonts have reverted to Windows default in the
Registry (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics). I have to run a .reg file to
correct size settings and change the desktop icon font from
the default Segoe UI to Lucida Sans Unicode.

None of these problems occurs if the monitor is turned on
when Windows loads.

I get something like that, except not exactly within what
you're experiencing. If I swap in a monitor, even change
resolution. Yet by no means a steadfast rule. Nor have I
meticulously taken the trouble to narrow in on what
circumstances causes Windows to rebuild a user setting with
its own default state.

I've a couple of custom folders at the far-left taskbar,
where I keep some 70 odd program icons at a specific
arrangement within. Given the number and expectancy of
placement, it's difficult to say the least when dealing
when a Windows rearrangement occurs due to inexactitudes
arising over prior contingencies over monitor stipulations.

I did, however move the two physical folders, containing
the icon links, off the Windows OS disk (to instead define
a central link to just the two). Similar to registry a
manipulation and redefinitions you use, I made and keep an
original binary OS restoration with correct and working
arrangements for the folders. Between the two I get back
what I want. Exceptions being, but not necessarily an
eventuality, replacement and installation of a new video
card and/or monitor;- then I need a prior snapshot jpg
file of the placement, inconvenience and time to defer to
it while manually rearranging icon placements.

I've checked several times and such manipulations are not
among a limited granularity for (freeware) programs and
utilities relating to a Windows manner and routine of
handling this. They apparently neither care, rather dare
to deviate far from the afore default behavior otherwise
addressed.

Right then, I was thinking "Must be Flasherly".

Did you read any of the prior messages? Try something other
than the DisplayPort.

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:37:33 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:


Right then, I was thinking "Must be Flasherly".

Did you read any of the prior messages? Try something other
than the DisplayPort.

Why bother, once out of synch to a Windows Desktop function that's
bound to a certain display hardware condition, if the manifestation is
to default to native OS display reversions (changing fonts, icon
ordering, and so forth)?

That's what I've experienced, as I said, and I'm not sure he isn't,
either, with his leading-edge 4K display possibly being in uncharted
software territory so far as (unwanted) OS routines he's experiencing.

Aside from anyone else here knowing that, regardless what later point
the monitor is turned on. An unlikelihood they're either running 4K
(or possibly within some 4K/offbrand in a same reaction sequence). If
I'm experiencing the same thing, however similar to what he does (or
within a same structure of unwanted aforementioned changes), it's
definitely during hardware procedural inconsistencies. Latently past
and beyond for more than just the display port selection, when more
than one is common enough for a given videochip's
multidisplay/connection options, moreover, is unique to this case. Not
saying it's not worth the try if available for the switch, though I
wouldn't bank on whatever the 4K is cycling through when powering up,
afterwards, throwing into an OS which doesn't appear to welcome or
expect them.

Flasherly wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Did you read any of the prior messages? Try something other
than the DisplayPort.

Why bother, once out of synch to a Windows Desktop function
that's bound to a certain display hardware condition

If you were only concerned about one instance, you would not
bother. But this thread is about a reoccurring problem.