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Two memory modules go bad at the same time?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 15th 05, 10:08 PM
Cyde Weys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.

So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors. At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.

Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion? I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?

And just to try to head off a question or two, I checked my BIOS
settings and the memory timing is set to 333Mhz.

  #2  
Old October 16th 05, 02:25 AM
Bob Day
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

"Cyde Weys" wrote in message oups.com...
So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.

So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors. At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.

Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion? I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?


Bad slot maybe. Possibly, power supply voltage not within
tolerance.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

  #3  
Old October 16th 05, 03:09 AM
Cyde Weys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?


Bob Day wrote:
"Cyde Weys" wrote in message oups.com...
So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.

So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors. At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.

Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion? I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?


Bad slot maybe. Possibly, power supply voltage not within
tolerance.


I get the same memory errors no matter which memory module I use or
which slot I put it in. I guess something is wrong with the memory
pathway in general? And this would be a mobo issue (and presumably the
CPU is fine)?

The power supply voltages seems to be in bounds as follows:

VCORE 1.61V
+3.3V 3.23V
+5V 4.83V
+12V 12.22V

  #4  
Old October 16th 05, 05:26 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

Cyde Weys wrote:

Bob Day wrote:

"Cyde Weys" wrote in message oups.com...

So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.

So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors. At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.

Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion? I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?


Bad slot maybe. Possibly, power supply voltage not within
tolerance.



I get the same memory errors no matter which memory module I use or
which slot I put it in. I guess something is wrong with the memory
pathway in general? And this would be a mobo issue (and presumably the
CPU is fine)?

The power supply voltages seems to be in bounds as follows:

VCORE 1.61V
+3.3V 3.23V
+5V 4.83V
+12V 12.22V


It could be anything, including the CPU. After all, memory can't be read
without the CPU being involved.

But with persistent global errors of that type I'd tend to guess a BIOS
setting before hardware failure. Try 'safe' defaults and, in particular,
the slowest memory speed settings.

  #5  
Old October 16th 05, 07:18 AM
Cyde Weys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?


David Maynard wrote:

It could be anything, including the CPU. After all, memory can't be read
without the CPU being involved.


Is it even possible for a CPU to malfunction in such a specific way
while still letting everything else work? It's not having problems
whatsoever booting and running memtest86 ... it's just when you try to
load an OS (which needs memory) that you get the problems.

But with persistent global errors of that type I'd tend to guess a BIOS
setting before hardware failure. Try 'safe' defaults and, in particular,
the slowest memory speed settings.


It doesn't seem to matter. I get the same errors. I paid attention
more time and it's more like 00XX0000 the first few seconds of
memtest86 where XX are random hex, but then it settles down to Err-Bits
00ff0000 over and over and over.

  #6  
Old October 16th 05, 07:50 AM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

On 15 Oct 2005 14:08:38 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:

So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.



So "BAM" really means that it hardly ever crashed (well, it
IS windows, but...) then regular crashing started occuring?
Had anything changed or any events occurred? For example,
moving the system, being inside it, having recently switched
from AC to electric heater in home, BIOS changes, or ???


So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors.


Keep in mind that while most of what memtest does is test
memory, there is also the basic function of the system that
has to be ok too, for memory to be stable.

For example, someone brought a motherboard to me that they'd
stabbed with a screwdriver while installing a heatsink.
They knocked off several surface-mount parts around the
board's northbridge. I managed to get new parts soldered
on, and board works, but is now instable above 154MHz memory
bus. I could probably keep trying to resolder or maybe seek
(in vain) specs for the subcircuit but that's beside the
point, that other things can make memory modules seem
malfunctional even if the vast majority of the system works
fine.

At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.


OK, but, do these errors ALWAYS occur at same address(es)?



Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion?


Remotely possible, maybe, but usually not. It's more likely
the motherboard, physical parts failing or "maybe" a really
bad power supply (less likely).



I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?


I would try underclocking to 100FSB, 100Mem, and
conservative memory timings like 2.5, 3, 3, 7. (you will
have to manually set these, the memory may not stay at
CAS2.5 when the FSB is lowered if board is set to Auto or
SPD mode). I don't if this will prove anything but it would
eliminate physically failure in the modules and if the board
is stable underclocked it might provide some aux. use
instead of being thrown away (or is it under warranty)?
Also if you were using Turbo (or whatever it's called) bios
setting for memory, use the more conservative setting.

Also try clearing CMOS, nForce2 boards can sometimes have
wierd bios glitches... if you're running an early bios you
might also try flashing a newer bios but only if you can
regain stablity in memtest86, first. Do not flash the bios
when system is in a state where memory errors are likely.



And just to try to head off a question or two, I checked my BIOS
settings and the memory timing is set to 333Mhz.


What make/model power supply?

Does CPU use 166MHz FSB as memory does?

Examine board for failed capacitors. A7N8X used "some"
fairly good caps, but I don't remember on the "-X" version,
I vaguely recall it had some component corners cut but I
can't recall for certain which parts). Some of the caps for
the memory are pretty far over towards the right-side edge
of the board, but check the rest too.

Also check the CPU/heatsink thermal interface. If you had
used regular silicone based thermal grease it may have dryed
out over time... had that happen to a system here, so now I
only use synthetic based grease on flipchips. It might be
unrelated but you made no mention of checking temps (or
voltages for that matter) yet. Also check your memory
voltage settings in the bios.
  #7  
Old October 16th 05, 07:53 AM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

On 15 Oct 2005 19:09:54 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:


The power supply voltages seems to be in bounds as follows:

VCORE 1.61V
+3.3V 3.23V
+5V 4.83V
+12V 12.22V


Are these readings from a multimeter at the power connector
or from the bios (or windows software) report? If from bios
or windows, they are expected. If from a multimeter, they
could be a sign your PSU may not have enough 5V capacity.

It would be useful to test these memory modules in another
system if possible.
  #8  
Old October 16th 05, 11:13 AM
Cyde Weys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?


kony wrote:
On 15 Oct 2005 14:08:38 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:

So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.



So "BAM" really means that it hardly ever crashed (well, it
IS windows, but...) then regular crashing started occuring?


Exactly. Working fine with only the minor videocard problems I
recently talked about, although I even got those fixed until this.

Had anything changed or any events occurred? For example,
moving the system, being inside it, having recently switched
from AC to electric heater in home, BIOS changes, or ???


Nahh, I haven't been inside the system recently or changed anything,
just BAM, not working.


For example, someone brought a motherboard to me that they'd
stabbed with a screwdriver while installing a heatsink.
They knocked off several surface-mount parts around the
board's northbridge. I managed to get new parts soldered
on, and board works, but is now instable above 154MHz memory
bus. I could probably keep trying to resolder or maybe seek
(in vain) specs for the subcircuit but that's beside the
point, that other things can make memory modules seem
malfunctional even if the vast majority of the system works
fine.


I haven't done anything like that to this mobo :-O

At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.


OK, but, do these errors ALWAYS occur at same address(es)?


They occur at every address possible on the memory chips. Everywhere
from 512MB down on to 0MB.

I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?


I would try underclocking to 100FSB, 100Mem, and
conservative memory timings like 2.5, 3, 3, 7. (you will
have to manually set these, the memory may not stay at
CAS2.5 when the FSB is lowered if board is set to Auto or
SPD mode). I don't if this will prove anything but it would
eliminate physically failure in the modules and if the board
is stable underclocked it might provide some aux. use
instead of being thrown away (or is it under warranty)?
Also if you were using Turbo (or whatever it's called) bios
setting for memory, use the more conservative setting.


I already tried severe underclocking; it didn't change anything.

Also try clearing CMOS, nForce2 boards can sometimes have
wierd bios glitches... if you're running an early bios you
might also try flashing a newer bios but only if you can
regain stablity in memtest86, first. Do not flash the bios
when system is in a state where memory errors are likely.


How do I clear CMOS? Is there some battery I need to remove and
replace?

And just to try to head off a question or two, I checked my BIOS
settings and the memory timing is set to 333Mhz.


What make/model power supply?


I don't remember and I'm not seeing any obvious sticker on the PSU
without having to take the whole thing out, but it's black, has three
green glowing fans in it, it's big, it cost a lot, I remember
researching it and it was a good brand, and it's something like 550W.

Does CPU use 166MHz FSB as memory does?


CPU is an Athlon Barton 2500+ so I think the answer is yes.

Examine board for failed capacitors. A7N8X used "some"
fairly good caps, but I don't remember on the "-X" version,
I vaguely recall it had some component corners cut but I
can't recall for certain which parts). Some of the caps for
the memory are pretty far over towards the right-side edge
of the board, but check the rest too.


Nothing obvious.

Also check the CPU/heatsink thermal interface. If you had
used regular silicone based thermal grease it may have dryed
out over time... had that happen to a system here, so now I
only use synthetic based grease on flipchips. It might be
unrelated but you made no mention of checking temps (or
voltages for that matter) yet. Also check your memory
voltage settings in the bios.


Nothing out of the ordinary.

*Sigh* ... it looks like I'm going to have to buy a new mobo? I'll
test the memory in another system tomorrow but I don't think that's
going to be the problem.

I've been looking to do a system upgrade anyway so maybe this is just
serendipity disguised as misfortune. What I'm looking for is a Socket
939 AMD64 processor, and a mobo to go along with it. At some point in
the future I'd like to get a nice PCI Express graphics card but in the
meantime I'd like to hang onto my Radeon 9800 Pro if I can; do they
even make mobos with both PCI-X and AGP? Also, my memory (assuming
it's not borked) should transfer over to the new computer, right?

  #9  
Old October 16th 05, 11:56 AM
Conor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

In article .com,
Cyde Weys says...

They occur at every address possible on the memory chips. Everywhere
from 512MB down on to 0MB.

One thing everyone has overlooked is the cache on the CPU.


--
Conor

"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen
Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras.
  #10  
Old October 16th 05, 03:06 PM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

On 16 Oct 2005 03:13:00 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:


OK, but, do these errors ALWAYS occur at same address(es)?


They occur at every address possible on the memory chips. Everywhere
from 512MB down on to 0MB.


Hmm. I would wonder if there is a bios corruption or
memtest86 bug, and would try a newer version of memtest86+,
if you hadn't already. That doesn't necessarily explain the
crashing, but if the board is headed for the trash anyway
you have free reign to make last ditch efforts without worry
of failure. Maybe try stabbing the board with a
screwdriver? ;-)



I already tried severe underclocking; it didn't change anything.


I'd also examine the memory contacts, and the slot contacts.



Also try clearing CMOS, nForce2 boards can sometimes have
wierd bios glitches... if you're running an early bios you
might also try flashing a newer bios but only if you can
regain stablity in memtest86, first. Do not flash the bios
when system is in a state where memory errors are likely.


How do I clear CMOS? Is there some battery I need to remove and
replace?


Pull AC (or switch off) from power supply. CMOS jumper is
immediately to the right of the battery (at least on Dlx
version, assume it's same on -X version). Move jumper from
left & middle pin to midde and right pin, then return to
leftmost two pins, plug ac back in. You could pull battery
instead, wait a few minutes then put it back in. You might
check battery voltage too, just in case... but I doubt
that's a problem since the error state is reproducable and
other bios settings aren't lost.



What make/model power supply?


I don't remember and I'm not seeing any obvious sticker on the PSU
without having to take the whole thing out, but it's black, has three
green glowing fans in it, it's big, it cost a lot, I remember
researching it and it was a good brand, and it's something like 550W.


Hmm.
Then it probably is good, though these days I always take
web reviews with a grain of salt, even questionable supplies
like "Ultra" get good reviews but arent' near as good as
most name-brand units.



Does CPU use 166MHz FSB as memory does?


CPU is an Athlon Barton 2500+ so I think the answer is yes.


I'd pull the 'sink and check the thermal interface just for
the heck of it.


Also check your memory
voltage settings in the bios.


Nothing out of the ordinary.


You might also try upping voltage to 2.6 or 2.7, though if
there were the errors even when underclocked, AND memory bus
was locked to 100% and fixed manual timings in bios, so it
too was underclocked, it would seem unlikely to help.


*Sigh* ... it looks like I'm going to have to buy a new mobo? I'll
test the memory in another system tomorrow but I don't think that's
going to be the problem.


Well at least they're cheaper than they used to be. You
might keep your eye open for a refurb from newegg or
chiefvalue to reuse the CPU.



I've been looking to do a system upgrade anyway so maybe this is just
serendipity disguised as misfortune. What I'm looking for is a Socket
939 AMD64 processor, and a mobo to go along with it. At some point in
the future I'd like to get a nice PCI Express graphics card but in the
meantime I'd like to hang onto my Radeon 9800 Pro if I can; do they
even make mobos with both PCI-X and AGP? Also, my memory (assuming
it's not borked) should transfer over to the new computer, right?


PC3200 has a fair chance of being reused, unless it just
happened to be instable on the new board. Most boards don't
have both PCI Express and an AGP slot, and having both means
you're using up board real-estate to implement it so there
would be a loss of one or more regular PCI slots, but, yes
there's a ULI chipset that supports it.
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524




 




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