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#11
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Unreally Lucky HDD
Flasherly wrote:
-- snipped -- Time to buy another 2T HDD - just not Seagate. I'll probably get Western Digital. I'm not sure which I trust more between a Seagate and Samsung, although for a fair share and sense of luck it's "OK" to say Western Digital will be the first choice. Rather I'll go lazy and join the pack, where Western Digital rules Amazon's marketing user review feedback stats;- expensive or not HDDs subject to IT review sites for longevity standings is also considerate if not smart[er], just not as lazy. My 2T drives that are crammed, also, with maybe 50GB remaining free;- I expect to be adding another 1T drive before long to supplement this 2T. wrt Seagate, I have just finished installing a Seagate BarraCuda ST3000DM007 3TB internal hard drive. It took three tries. The first two drives were DOA. The third time the drive seems to be working; only time will tell. As I understand it, this drive (3TB size) is fairly new. I'm not happy that it took three times to get one that works. I bought the first drive through newegg but contacted Seagate directly with regard to the replacement/warranty process. I placed the order with newegg in late April and finished getting and installing the working drive around June 2. The reviews at newegg suggested that about 25% of the users panned Seagate for DOA drives, so I did have some warning that DOA drives were a problem. Looking at reviews for Western Digital drives, I got the impression that WD had a similar problem, just not as big - may 20% of the reviews citing a DOA drive. The only good thing was that I was very satisfied with the the service at Seagate Support. Their reps answered my questions about the return procedure and what I should expect to happen. The shipping worked as expected. The reps had their notes on hand to see what we had talked about from the previous conversations. The other thing is that I chose to deal directly with Seagate to handle the warranty replacements. Seagate will replace the defective drive but not substitute. I could have done the RMA through newegg but figured it'd be faster all around to use Seagate. After the 2nd DOA drive, I felt like I made a mistake; I began thinking that I should have gone through newegg to have the option of refund, replacement or substitution. My initial thinking was that it would take less time to resolve the problem and that surely I wouldn't be hit with multiple DOA drives. Sigh. John |
#12
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote: wrt Seagate, I have just finished installing a Seagate BarraCuda ST3000DM007 3TB internal hard drive. It took three tries. The first two drives were DOA. The third time the drive seems to be working; only time will tell. As I understand it, this drive (3TB size) is fairly new. I'm not happy that it took three times to get one that works. I bought the first drive through newegg but contacted Seagate directly with regard to the replacement/warranty process. I placed the order with newegg in late April and finished getting and installing the working drive around June 2. The reviews at newegg suggested that about 25% of the users panned Seagate for DOA drives, so I did have some warning that DOA drives were a problem. Looking at reviews for Western Digital drives, I got the impression that WD had a similar problem, just not as big - may 20% of the reviews citing a DOA drive. The only good thing was that I was very satisfied with the the service at Seagate Support. Their reps answered my questions about the return procedure and what I should expect to happen. The shipping worked as expected. The reps had their notes on hand to see what we had talked about from the previous conversations. The other thing is that I chose to deal directly with Seagate to handle the warranty replacements. Seagate will replace the defective drive but not substitute. I could have done the RMA through newegg but figured it'd be faster all around to use Seagate. After the 2nd DOA drive, I felt like I made a mistake; I began thinking that I should have gone through newegg to have the option of refund, replacement or substitution. My initial thinking was that it would take less time to resolve the problem and that surely I wouldn't be hit with multiple DOA drives. Sigh. John Tiered for their pricing, they're using increments of a one terabyte at 25% less for the most common drive sizes on the EZRZ series I bought, i.e. $44 for 1T, $60 @ 2T, and $75 @ 3T. At 4T linear pricing allowances change to closer to a 40% increase, initially at least, perhaps due to a change from build constraints, such as newer "shingled" track read/write technology. Is this your first time up with a 3T installation? Were you given a RMA for no shipping costs, if not at your expense, to return the drive, having to print your own shipping label, a shipping agency recognizes as paid for and legal, or did Seagate sent you box no different then to place a HDD to be returned, for you to deliver the box to a shipping agency physically located near you? Paying shipping on a new drive is another 25% cost increase, but straight-down depreciation. Which I'd already factored on mine from prestated assurances, I would not be charged, by an intermediary jobber policy interests to be honored for 30-days after haven taken delivery of a contract. At times I don't get far behind an anonymous browser, not that I need to if failure rates are sensitive and difficult for manufacturers to represent themselves. IT lobby interests may also bear some relevance for what drive failure abstracts they may provide. And then their are the models, an IT's specialty in part his bread and butter, in knowing to equip customers with relative serial numbers known characteristically secure for longevity and lack of problematic issues. I can as well see the numbers you're citing, although the question remains, how much incontrovertible faith are you willing to place in what you are told by others, and what you are told by slick-gloss experts published in trade material, or as much the manufacturer and how they are to account a benefit derived from your buying their product. Perhaps it is time now that a 3T HDD ought to be as plain, at least as plain is to me, as it is determine with very little doubt a distinctiveness apparent between an operational 2T HDD and one that exhibits deficiency. I should think. To have even one 3T, or larger, HDD among stacks of HDDs I do keep. Which I don't. |
#13
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Unreally Lucky HDD
Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC), "Yes" wrote: wrt Seagate, I have just finished installing a Seagate BarraCuda ST3000DM007 3TB internal hard drive. It took three tries. The first two drives were DOA. The third time the drive seems to be working; only time will tell. As I understand it, this drive (3TB size) is fairly new. I'm not happy that it took three times to get one that works. I bought the first drive through newegg but contacted Seagate directly with regard to the replacement/warranty process. I placed the order with newegg in late April and finished getting and installing the working drive around June 2. The reviews at newegg suggested that about 25% of the users panned Seagate for DOA drives, so I did have some warning that DOA drives were a problem. Looking at reviews for Western Digital drives, I got the impression that WD had a similar problem, just not as big - may 20% of the reviews citing a DOA drive. The only good thing was that I was very satisfied with the the service at Seagate Support. Their reps answered my questions about the return procedure and what I should expect to happen. The shipping worked as expected. The reps had their notes on hand to see what we had talked about from the previous conversations. The other thing is that I chose to deal directly with Seagate to handle the warranty replacements. Seagate will replace the defective drive but not substitute. I could have done the RMA through newegg but figured it'd be faster all around to use Seagate. After the 2nd DOA drive, I felt like I made a mistake; I began thinking that I should have gone through newegg to have the option of refund, replacement or substitution. My initial thinking was that it would take less time to resolve the problem and that surely I wouldn't be hit with multiple DOA drives. Sigh. John Tiered for their pricing, they're using increments of a one terabyte at 25% less for the most common drive sizes on the EZRZ series I bought, i.e. $44 for 1T, $60 @ 2T, and $75 @ 3T. At 4T linear pricing allowances change to closer to a 40% increase, initially at least, perhaps due to a change from build constraints, such as newer "shingled" track read/write technology. Is this your first time up with a 3T installation? Were you given a RMA for no shipping costs, if not at your expense, to return the drive, having to print your own shipping label, a shipping agency recognizes as paid for and legal, or did Seagate sent you box no different then to place a HDD to be returned, for you to deliver the box to a shipping agency physically located near you? Paying shipping on a new drive is another 25% cost increase, but straight-down depreciation. Which I'd already factored on mine from prestated assurances, I would not be charged, by an intermediary jobber policy interests to be honored for 30-days after haven taken delivery of a contract. At times I don't get far behind an anonymous browser, not that I need to if failure rates are sensitive and difficult for manufacturers to represent themselves. IT lobby interests may also bear some relevance for what drive failure abstracts they may provide. And then their are the models, an IT's specialty in part his bread and butter, in knowing to equip customers with relative serial numbers known characteristically secure for longevity and lack of problematic issues. I can as well see the numbers you're citing, although the question remains, how much incontrovertible faith are you willing to place in what you are told by others, and what you are told by slick-gloss experts published in trade material, or as much the manufacturer and how they are to account a benefit derived from your buying their product. Perhaps it is time now that a 3T HDD ought to be as plain, at least as plain is to me, as it is determine with very little doubt a distinctiveness apparent between an operational 2T HDD and one that exhibits deficiency. I should think. To have even one 3T, or larger, HDD among stacks of HDDs I do keep. Which I don't. If I'm understanding your questions correctly, 1. the drive was and is under warranty 2. the cost of returning the defective drive was $0. Seagate provided a pre-printed shipping label with the replacement drive for where to return the HD. I was not charged anything because it was was under warranty. All I had to do was put the defective drive in the box that the replacement drive came in, wrap the box and use the shipping service (UPS in my case) to return it to Seagate. seagate recommended using a staffed UPS store so that I could get a receipt as proof of return in case for some reason Seagate did not receive the returned drive. 3. I don't have need to buy hard drives (or other eqpt. FWIW) very often. I rely upon responses to questions I pose in this NG, reading articles gleaned from googling, and looking at what's 'popular' or 'best selling' per newegg and a few other vendors. I built my existing pc around 2010 and the hd was to be the first major addition I planned to make to it since 2010. It's not like I buy or install a lot of software. It was built for use with Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit. I intended to add the HD in anticipation of learning more about VMs and perhaps resume learning more programming. 4. The statistics I cited were based on my observation after reading of the comments at newegg for both the Seagate and the WD models that had interested me. They're not from the manufacturer or some independent testing lab. As far as I can tell, the mfrs do not publish that type data. My methodology was to look at the % of 1-star ratings, and read through 20 or so reviews (most recent first) to get a "feel" for what people were complaining or praising. My overwhelming impression about the 1-star ratings was that the person gave that rating because the drive was DOA. 5. In lieu of recognized third party labs publishing actual numbers, I am left with doing what has continually been recommended in this NG - use them cautiously. 6. My previous experience using a Seagate drive was around 1997. I put two Seagate Barracude SCSI drives because they were rated as best of class for enterprise environment at that time, and my thoughts were that if major businesses were using them based on quality and reliability and I could afford it, then that was sufficient reason. I value reliability and quality. The next build I moved to using WD drives to fit a more modest budget and because IIRC the qualty of Seagate drives, as WD IIRC, was starting to decline given what users were saying. 6. It was my first experience with a 3TB installation. I chose the 3TB model because newegg offered it a price that was reasonable when compared to what they had on sale then, and I was not interested in a larger drive due to price and unfamiliarity with using those sized drives. I still had 1TB across three drives in reserve, so a really large drive (4+TB did not make sense given my usage. So as a sample size of 1, my experience wrt the DOA drives could just be one of those outrageous outliers. All I can say is that I'm crossing my fingers and hope that I don't experience any more problems with the HD. John |
#14
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:38:15 -0400, Flasherly
wrote: Cut&dry for an initial sampling, unless you want $30 extra for mine and a year less warranty. Might offhand want to stay out of the 25% *rejection rates, even for Seagate. WD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400RPM $124.99 4,519 customer reviews 5 star 75% 4 star 12% 3 star 4% 2 star 3% 1 star 6% https://www.amazon.com/Red-4TB-Hard-.../dp/B00EHBERSE 4.4 out of 5 stars 8,988 4,519 customer reviews WD Blue Price: $103.75 5 star 76% 4 star 12% 3 star 3% 2 star 2% 1 star 7% *. . .not quite a cough. . . 8,154 3.9 out of 5 stars 5 star 61% 4 star 12% 3 star 5% 2 star 5% 1 star 17% Seagate SATA 6Gb/s 3.5-Inch 4TB Desktop HDD (ST4000DM000) |
#15
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 22:54:36 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote: 6. My previous experience using a Seagate drive was around 1997. I put two Seagate Barracude SCSI drives because they were rated as best of class for enterprise environment at that time, and my thoughts were that if major businesses were using them based on quality and reliability and I could afford it, then that was sufficient reason. I value reliability and quality. The next build I moved to using WD drives to fit a more modest budget and because IIRC the qualty of Seagate drives, as WD IIRC, was starting to decline given what users were saying. 6. It was my first experience with a 3TB installation. I chose the 3TB model because newegg offered it a price that was reasonable when compared to what they had on sale then, and I was not interested in a larger drive due to price and unfamiliarity with using those sized drives. I still had 1TB across three drives in reserve, so a really large drive (4+TB did not make sense given my usage. So as a sample size of 1, my experience wrt the DOA drives could just be one of those outrageous outliers. All I can say is that I'm crossing my fingers and hope that I don't experience any more problems with the HD. Thanks John. I've interchangeably went with Seagates since MFM, RLL, and first IDE 40G drives. Yes, there are periods where the manufacturer will quality vary, including Sea Snakes, where it seems best just to go with the flow and risk where your interpretation for reliability would seem best placed. I've also had horrible Western Digitals, even if an exception for generally proving where fools and money part. I'm neither laughing, also having returned a 3T drive, based on my experience with a security-class HDD (intended for camera installations). I willingly paid the return, at and on my costs, for that experience. A little less on the price for the ST4000DM000 linked in the prior message, a little less for ratings across a satisfied purchase base, but given appreciable shipping costs and customer service - they nonetheless count to your sense of worth and purchase value. You mentioned, unless I'm misinterpreting, you're effectively tapped out on returns -- Seagate will only send you so many replacement warranty issues, three now being your last right to make a warranty claim? No doubt WD, as would others, have similar provisos. I've experienced, for the most, a positive reception for HDD reliability. A minimum effort on my part in part perhaps to check first for patterns between popular reception among drive model offerings, and then some regularity for fragmentation maintenance, undue thrashing, or a general appreciation to correctly meet a type of software operations normally expected of HDD usage. Busy, hard-hit WEB servers and a volume of nonstop random distribution criteria is a scary comparison. Well, you're over the hump and into a present technology for Mass Storage. Also on value time now - committed to getting your money's worth out of a Seagate without further support. I'm not sure how I'll make the transition after my first attempt with the 3T security-camera HDD. Perhaps I'll skip it altogether, rather for some ridiculously priced 8T, or near capacity, HDD of commonly acceptable (a great subject for the flavor of day) regard. |
#16
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 19:41:17 -0400, Flasherly
wrote: On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:38:15 -0400, Flasherly wrote: Cut&dry for an initial sampling, unless you want $30 extra for mine and a year less warranty. Might offhand want to stay out of the 25% *rejection rates, even for Seagate. WD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400RPM $124.99 4,519 customer reviews 5 star 75% 4 star 12% 3 star 4% 2 star 3% 1 star 6% https://www.amazon.com/Red-4TB-Hard-.../dp/B00EHBERSE 4.4 out of 5 stars 8,988 4,519 customer reviews WD Blue Price: $103.75 5 star 76% 4 star 12% 3 star 3% 2 star 2% 1 star 7% *. . .not quite a cough. . . 8,154 3.9 out of 5 stars 5 star 61% 4 star 12% 3 star 5% 2 star 5% 1 star 17% Seagate SATA 6Gb/s 3.5-Inch 4TB Desktop HDD (ST4000DM000) Well, I'd like to know more... My observation on reading many of the reviews is that the review posted with a particular drive, for example, isn't really about that particular model drive at all. Sometimes this is pretty clear, but often it seems obscured. Did you happen to notice similar instances? IIRC, I've seen that in reviews on both Amazon and Newegg. |
#17
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Unreally Lucky HDD
Flasherly wrote:
-- snipped -- You mentioned, unless I'm misinterpreting, you're effectively tapped out on returns -- Seagate will only send you so many replacement warranty issues, three now being your last right to make a warranty claim? -- snipped -- No, as far as I know. I bought the original HD in April 2018. The warranty extends till 2020. My impression when talking with the Seagate representatives is that Seagate would continue to replace a defective drive with a new one until I got one that worked. The customer service experience I had after buying the drive and the follow-up conversations were very direct, pleasant and satisfactory. The "three times" is a reference that the original drive I bought was DOA. The replacement drive (number two) Seagate sent me was DOA. The replacement drive (number three) Seagate sent me to replace drive number two works. "Crossing my fingers" was meant to convey my hope that the drive will continue working for its expected life but that, given that the first two drives were DOA, there is no certainty it will. I have had very good luck with my hard drives in the past or just don't put them to a lot of stress to wear them out quickly. In either case, I don't have a need to buy them very often. Prior to this purchase, I bought one hard drive (new) in December 2016 for a build. Before that, I think 2010 was the last time I was in the market for a hard drive(s). I wouldn't even have bought one now (2018) except that I wanted to add another drive. So I build a new pc for myself about every seven years and for the most part do my research when I'm at the point that I can use the info to actually choose what to build/buy. That's when I start asking questions in the NG. My impression is that your experience with pc buuilding is much greater than mine, that you did/do this type of activity either professionally or as a hobby. I hope this clarifies what I wrote previously. John |
#18
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:36:09 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote: No, as far as I know. I bought the original HD in April 2018. The warranty extends till 2020. My impression when talking with the Seagate representatives is that Seagate would continue to replace a defective drive with a new one until I got one that worked. The customer service experience I had after buying the drive and the follow-up conversations were very direct, pleasant and satisfactory. The "three times" is a reference that the original drive I bought was DOA. The replacement drive (number two) Seagate sent me was DOA. The replacement drive (number three) Seagate sent me to replace drive number two works. "Crossing my fingers" was meant to convey my hope that the drive will continue working for its expected life but that, given that the first two drives were DOA, there is no certainty it will. I have had very good luck with my hard drives in the past or just don't put them to a lot of stress to wear them out quickly. In either case, I don't have a need to buy them very often. Prior to this purchase, I bought one hard drive (new) in December 2016 for a build. Before that, I think 2010 was the last time I was in the market for a hard drive(s). I wouldn't even have bought one now (2018) except that I wanted to add another drive. So I build a new pc for myself about every seven years and for the most part do my research when I'm at the point that I can use the info to actually choose what to build/buy. That's when I start asking questions in the NG. My impression is that your experience with pc buuilding is much greater than mine, that you did/do this type of activity either professionally or as a hobby. I hope this clarifies what I wrote previously. That counts, as I said, that you're getting through. Some apparently don't, with Seagate taking the position they first demonstrate a HDD fault condition to prove a sufficient clause exists -- their tools vs possible 3rd-party HDD and SMART diagnostics. And the thread would seem fairly recent. https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder...hit_heres_why/ As well, from the horse's mouth https://www.seagate.com/support/warr...nty-checklist/ To others with different expectations, I wasn't aware of how picky Seagate can potentially be about the whole physical aspect of qualifying a condition of a drive warranty. Not offhand that I should be getting back any kind of "cap" indications on anyone being denied their full warranty, because the manufacturer is tired of sending out too many bad drives for replacement to people who can't seem to stop complaining. Small wonder. Not good at all -- two drives not powering up new and out of the box. Although I've never experienced such, I'm not quite sure how far I might go before pegging my concern-o-meter. Least to mention the overall inconvenience factor, procedures and to an extent equipment and demands, all for the one low price in addition to having bought their product in the first place. They probably like you as well and with good reason: Not everyone is going to be so agreeable. You could have physically listened for the faulted drives to spin up, although I can't imagine anyone actually would want to if the drive does not subsequently initiate or cannot be picked up through the BIOS. I also enjoy building PCs for the most, although I don't now build as often, to face the same technological changes after some inactivity from an otherwise satisfactory machine, when that time then comes for an update. Nor do I always understand the full implications of a nature overall of PCs, especially over time, wear and usage, to being more or less impervious when lamely going about doing things exactly as expected, if ever actually so performed prior. HDDs now are equipped with SMART firmware diagnostic readouts. Which we all will no doubt dutifully watch for reported fault conditions: of some possible, perhaps, 40 discrete indicators whereby importance is ranked for a severity among yellow "warnings", before the same, if not others, turn into dreaded "reds" of eminent failure. I fear, yes, even HDDs are prone overall to imperfections of a less obvious nature, crossing our fingers, as you say, simply giving it but one for an added measure, as I might. Apart from a backup strategy integral to data, even to computers going back 180K floppies, a SMART condition, one might wonder, really how smart can that be -- as if anyone by in large is going to open up the HDD for a modular replacement, a fix -- or simply turn to ignore it for as long as the HDD continues to play its role and limp along. People always have had exceptions, provisions and uncertainty when dealing in HDDs. And it may be awhile for SDDs to pull them out from the quagmire. |
#19
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 08:20:12 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote: Well, I'd like to know more... My observation on reading many of the reviews is that the review posted with a particular drive, for example, isn't really about that particular model drive at all. Sometimes this is pretty clear, but often it seems obscured. Did you happen to notice similar instances? IIRC, I've seen that in reviews on both Amazon and Newegg. I tend favor NewEgg, rather once did, as it commanded a premier niche in hardware supplies. The customer may have been more apt to reflect it over an HTML selection of some 90 entry reviews, Amazon limits to perhaps a dozen. Amazon then largely, among no doubt other factors, negated NewEgg's former domination of technology sales. Although the prices are near parity, NewEgg changed to require customers to pay a shipping return in the event the purchase is unsatisfactory. Hence for 200 NewEgg reviews, often exhibiting total non-parity, the same product on Amazon may have 8000 reviews. Can anything, Charlie, really be clearer than domination from a greatest mass opinion, then limited to a perspective of a single instance of ten posts linked to the HTML equivalent to "turn the page"? Of course it can. But it's going to take better eyes and patience to drill them for relevance I can provide. I was looking at a blender on Amazon. Not the two $500 units, the classy ones with meat in numbers of manufacturer's coveting positive reviews. This one had only 100 reviews, all mostly positive, and 100 more than a competitive but lesser-regarded brand may hold. And all of them, highly and very much so, were shills. Indicators for interpolation and abstracts, short of any science of actual statistics, yes, such is possible. Asking for 'clarity', however, is another matter. It's the casino Amazon built, where you play by Amazon rules on Amazon time. It's also a part of a house, Amazon built, where the National Security Agency stores its Top Secret Data, on Amazon cloud services. |
#20
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Unreally Lucky HDD
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:36:09 -0000 (UTC), "Yes" wrote:
| Flasherly wrote: | | -- snipped -- | You mentioned, unless I'm misinterpreting, you're | effectively tapped out on returns -- Seagate will only send you so | many replacement warranty issues, three now being your last right to | make a warranty claim? | -- snipped -- | | No, as far as I know. I bought the original HD in April 2018. The | warranty extends till 2020. My impression when talking with the | Seagate representatives is that Seagate would continue to replace a | defective drive with a new one until I got one that worked. The | customer service experience I had after buying the drive and the | follow-up conversations were very direct, pleasant and satisfactory. 3 replacements are too many. They could offer to keep replacing units until you get one that's satisfactory until the cows come home, but that's too much crap to have to put up with. I usually give anybody a chance to make things right... ONCE, but would have demanded a refund with the 2nd defective HDD no matter how nice their customer service people are. Larc |
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