Typical mains power for mid-range PC?

On 22 Jul 2006, Dorothy Bradbury wrote:

Stick 2x 10,000rpm HD against one another in a drive cage.
Provide sufficient cooling for 2x 8-17W drives.

I will provide the data recovery firm name to use...

o Motor-IC overheats from lack of linear-feet-per-min airflow
o Motor-IC dumps heat into surroundings, motor/spindle heat
o Motor-spindle dumps heat into FDB accelerating aging
o FDB aging causes higher current draw (startup & continuous)
---- S.M.A.R.T. data measures startup Ima &/or startup Tsecs
o Higher current draw heats motor/spindle & Motor-IC
---- Reinforcing System Loop of increasing thermal dissipation


The above reminds me of hard drive hot spots because the Motor-IC
gets referred to a few times.

My question is simpler:

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal on one
side and the circuit board on the other side then which of these two
side should get the most cooling?

Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:56:58 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.



NO, it does not vary per drive design, or rather, all drive
designs are putting the board on the bottom, and a thin
cover on the top, thus need more cooling on the bottom
circuit board than (if any on) the top cover.

In the majority of drives, the top cover is barely (if at
all) even joined to the rest with a reasonably conductive
junction, instead they typically have a silicone or some
other type of flexible gasket. They may feel warm but this
is more a function of heat rising because it wasn't removed
more immediately from the hot areas instead of left to heat
up surrounding areas.

I'm sure you'll argue Rod, but you're quite wrong in general
and offhand I don't recall any hard drive EVER MADE that
needed as much, let alone more cooling on the top metal.

In other words, a drive can be completely cooled with
airflow over the bottom only. It cannot with airflow only
over the top.

kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.

NO, it does not vary per drive design,

Fraid it does. Most obviously with the older Barras which
have a metal plate and rubber mat over the logic card etc.

or rather, all drive designs are putting the board
on the bottom, and a thin cover on the top,

Plenty of top covers arent thin.

thus need more cooling on the bottom
circuit board than (if any on) the top cover.

Not a ****ing clue, as always. Plenty of drives still get
rid of quite a bit of heat thru the metal body of the drive.

In the majority of drives, the top cover is barely (if at all)
even joined to the rest with a reasonably conductive junction,

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

instead they typically have a silicone
or some other type of flexible gasket.

Separate matter entirely.

They may feel warm but this is more a function of heat
rising because it wasn't removed more immediately from
the hot areas instead of left to heat up surrounding areas.

Have fun explaining how come that cover STILL gets
warm even when the drive is mounted upside down.

I'm sure you'll argue Rod, but you're quite wrong in general

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

and offhand I don't recall any hard drive EVER MADE that
needed as much, let alone more cooling on the top metal.

Have fun explaining those early Barras, child.

In other words, a drive can be completely cooled with airflow
over the bottom only. It cannot with airflow only over the top.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:52:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.

NO, it does not vary per drive design,

Fraid it does. Most obviously with the older Barras which
have a metal plate and rubber mat over the logic card etc.

plate and rubber don't suddenly make a cover plate more
conductive than it is, if you cool the area with longest
conduction path and least tRise, you've let the rest get
hotter than it otherwise would.


or rather, all drive designs are putting the board
on the bottom, and a thin cover on the top,

Plenty of top covers arent thin.

On modern drives?
Which ones?



thus need more cooling on the bottom
circuit board than (if any on) the top cover.

Not a ****ing clue, as always. Plenty of drives still get
rid of quite a bit of heat thru the metal body of the drive.

Bottom, yes. The top only gets hot as a function of how hot
the interior was, because the bottom wasn't cooled enough,
and of course a minor friction of platter/air inside the
chamber but again, it is not only as well but better cooled
by the bottom because the top is still secured by a gasket
material which impedes heat transfer from other portions of
the drive which likewise heat up.



In the majority of drives, the top cover is barely (if at all)
even joined to the rest with a reasonably conductive junction,

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

Rod, stop looking in the mirror.



instead they typically have a silicone
or some other type of flexible gasket.

Separate matter entirely.

So sorry but wrong again.
It is entirely applicable, heat conduction and removal
depends on the thermal gradient, cooling of the hotter parts
or at least those with best thermal junctions to the other
areas needing cooled more than passively-without-sink.



They may feel warm but this is more a function of heat
rising because it wasn't removed more immediately from
the hot areas instead of left to heat up surrounding areas.

Have fun explaining how come that cover STILL gets
warm even when the drive is mounted upside down.

Because heat radiates on all directions, not just UP.
Particularly so in a semi-sealed chamber the platters are
in.

However, if your drive is mounted in a case and the cover
feels warm, you didn't have ample cooling on the circuit
board side which was what I'd written in the first place.

If your drive is sitting upside down on a desk, the desk
would have to be a better thermal conductor than air for the
temp of the adjacent cover to be cooler than any other part.




I'm sure you'll argue Rod, but you're quite wrong in general

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

It seems you always paste that line in when you already know
you've goofed.



and offhand I don't recall any hard drive EVER MADE that
needed as much, let alone more cooling on the top metal.

Have fun explaining those early Barras, child.

There were other drives I ignored, some had the circuit
board on the rear-top, but the same concept applied, that
the side with the circuit board was still the one more
important to cool (though chip densities being lower then,
the airflow for the board was not as important).




In other words, a drive can be completely cooled with airflow
over the bottom only. It cannot with airflow only over the top.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

LOL.

Funny how you can't even keep a drive cool, claiming it's
"warm" then simultaneously ignoring those who manage to keep
drives cool to the touch by ignoring your false advice.

Kony:

So, do you think drives would be better off upside-down, so the heat could
rise off the bottom?

If so, I just might flip mine.
--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org

kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.

NO, it does not vary per drive design,

Fraid it does. Most obviously with the older Barras which
have a metal plate and rubber mat over the logic card etc.

plate and rubber don't suddenly make
a cover plate more conductive than it is,

It does however mean that the LOGIC CARD gets significantly less
cooling from the airflow than with drives with exposed logic cards, child.

if you cool the area with longest conduction path and least
tRise, you've let the rest get hotter than it otherwise would.

Irrelevant waffle to that stupid pig ignorant claim that
all drives are the same on that cooling question, child.

or rather, all drive designs are putting the board
on the bottom, and a thin cover on the top,

Plenty of top covers arent thin.

On modern drives?

Yep.

Which ones?

Depends on how you define modern, child.

thus need more cooling on the bottom
circuit board than (if any on) the top cover.

Not a ****ing clue, as always. Plenty of drives still get
rid of quite a bit of heat thru the metal body of the drive.

Bottom, yes. The top only gets hot as a function of how hot
the interior was, because the bottom wasn't cooled enough,

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

and of course a minor friction of platter/air inside the chamber
but again, it is not only as well but better cooled by the bottom
because the top is still secured by a gasket material which impedes
heat transfer from other portions of the drive which likewise heat up.

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

And have fun explaining how come some drive manufacturers explicitly state
that the drive temp limits apply to a specific location on the top cover, child.

In the majority of drives, the top cover is barely (if at all)
even joined to the rest with a reasonably conductive junction,

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

Rod, stop looking in the mirror.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

instead they typically have a silicone
or some other type of flexible gasket.

Separate matter entirely.

So sorry but wrong again.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

It is entirely applicable,

Nope, not when the top cover is only part
of the metal structure of the drive, child.

heat conduction and removal depends on the thermal gradient,

Wrong again, most obviously with significant airflow over the drive.

cooling of the hotter parts or at least those with
best thermal junctions to the other areas needing
cooled more than passively-without-sink.

Meaningless waffle with hard drives.

They may feel warm but this is more a function of heat
rising because it wasn't removed more immediately from
the hot areas instead of left to heat up surrounding areas.

Have fun explaining how come that cover STILL gets
warm even when the drive is mounted upside down.

Because heat radiates on all directions, not just UP.

Pathetic, really. It cant 'radiate' from the logic card
thru the body of the drive, to the top cover, child.

Particularly so in a semi-sealed chamber the platters are in.

Pity about the platters, child.

However, if your drive is mounted in a case and the cover feels
warm, you didn't have ample cooling on the circuit board side

Wrong, as always. If you have ample cooling over
the logic card, with the drive mounted with that on
top, THE COVER WILL STILL BE WARM, child.

which was what I'd written in the first place.

Pity it was always pure pig ignorant drivel.

In spades with those early Barras, child.

If your drive is sitting upside down on a desk, the desk
would have to be a better thermal conductor than air for the
temp of the adjacent cover to be cooler than any other part.

I wasnt even considering the drive on the desk, child.

I'm sure you'll argue Rod, but you're quite wrong in general

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

It seems you always paste that line in
when you already know you've goofed.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

and offhand I don't recall any hard drive EVER MADE that
needed as much, let alone more cooling on the top metal.

Have fun explaining those early Barras, child.

There were other drives I ignored, some had the circuit
board on the rear-top, but the same concept applied,
that the side with the circuit board was still the one more
important to cool (though chip densities being lower then,
the airflow for the board was not as important).

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

In other words, a drive can be completely cooled with airflow
over the bottom only. It cannot with airflow only over the top.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

LOL.

Village eejut immitations aint gunna save your bacon, child.

Funny how you can't even keep a drive cool,

Fraid I can, child.

claiming it's "warm"

Only a fool blows enough air over a drive so it isnt warm, child.

then simultaneously ignoring those who manage to keep
drives cool to the touch by ignoring your false advice.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

AND it CANT be 'false advice' to try it both ways,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:52:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Gave us:

NO, it does not vary per drive design,

Fraid it does. Most obviously with the older Barras which
have a metal plate and rubber mat over the logic card etc.

You are full of ****.

Some drive makers place such things on their SPINDLE driver sections
of their PCBs. Very few drives have multiple PCBs in them now (not
including within the plater/head box), and both the spindle drivers as
well as the CONTROLLER electronics are integrated together on that one
board.

There are plenty of drives, even the 10k RPM versions that have no
sinking metals on this board at all. There are some that do.

So it doesn't vary by design so much as by manufacturer. It is not
required, and the bottom of the drive is STILL the place where cooling
air currents should be directed.

Phat Bytestard wrote
Rod Speed wrote
kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Jon D wrote

If I have a hard drive which has a protective sheet of metal
on one side and the circuit board on the other side then
which of these two side should get the most cooling?

Varys with the drive design. The only real way to answer that
question is to try it both ways and monitor the drive SMART temp.

NO, it does not vary per drive design,

Fraid it does. Most obviously with the older Barras which
have a metal plate and rubber mat over the logic card etc.

reams of your puerile **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Some drive makers place such things on
their SPINDLE driver sections of their PCBs.

Irrelevant to what happened with those Barras.

Very few drives have multiple PCBs in them now
(not including within the plater/head box),

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

and both the spindle drivers as well as the CONTROLLER
electronics are integrated together on that one board.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

There are plenty of drives, even the 10k RPM versions that have
no sinking metals on this board at all. There are some that do.

So clearly the designs do vary, stupid.

So it doesn't vary by design so much as by manufacturer.

Pathetic, really.

It is not required, and the bottom of the drive is STILL
the place where cooling air currents should be directed.

It clearly isnt with those Barras, child.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:52:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Gave us:

or rather, all drive designs are putting the board
on the bottom, and a thin cover on the top,

Plenty of top covers arent thin.

Now, you are a semantical twit.

A 20 Ga stainless lid is quite stiff. but to someone used to heavier
sheet steel calling it thin is NOT incorrect. For you to assume he
meant foil thin is just more proof of how pedantic (and ignorantly so)
you are.