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#1
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Getting there
This is a continuation of an old thread:
Paul suggested I try an Intel E4700 CPU. So far I have only acquired a couple of Intel E4800 CPU(s), TDP 65 W. I cannot feel heat emitted, like with Intel Q9650 CPU. With it, PC would try to boot 3 times then give up. Now it tries forever, but gives beep code; Continuous short beeps: Power error. No BIOS screen. This is progress. I must try harder to find Intel E4700 CPU. I'll re-solder new 470uF 25V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor |
#2
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Getting there
Norm Why wrote:
This is a continuation of an old thread: Paul suggested I try an Intel E4700 CPU. So far I have only acquired a couple of Intel E4800 CPU(s), TDP 65 W. I cannot feel heat emitted, like with Intel Q9650 CPU. With it, PC would try to boot 3 times then give up. Now it tries forever, but gives beep code; Continuous short beeps: Power error. No BIOS screen. This is progress. I must try harder to find Intel E4700 CPU. I'll re-solder new 470uF 25V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Those are probably E8400 processors, which are fine as well. The E8400 could have a higher FSB value. One way to find "friends" of a CPU, is via cpu-world. The table at the bottom of the page, shows processors for the same socket (LGA775). The E4700 should be "cheaper" as it is gutless, but likely draws the least power of the lot. Back when I had the e4700 set up on a VIA board, the whole PC drew 65W. That's because everything in the PC was gutless. http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2...7E4700%29.html You look the individuals up on "ark". https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...0-mhz-fsb.html Processor Base Frequency 2.60 GHz Bus Speed 800 MHz 200MHz (four txfr per clk) https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...3-mhz-fsb.html Processor Base Frequency 3.00 GHz Bus Speed 1333 MHz 333MHz (four txfr per clk) The memory clock is related to the CPU clock choice. These processors don't need a lot of VCore power. 36W to 43W should do, at VCore (12V @ 3A or 12V @ 4A approx). As long as the processors in question are in the CPU Support chart, everything is great from that perspective. The power will beep, if the HWmonitor spots a rail which is out of spec. Some of the rails are like "VCore". When you change CPUs, the BIOS should be checking the VID values for the processor and so on, and doing the right things. To give an example of "doing the wrong thing", take my P4B with 1.8 GHz Northwood in it. When the BIOS battery is dead, it re-computes start conditions and so on. It applies *1.75V* to the CPU, because it is mis-interpreting something. I have to hurry and enter the BIOS, and set VCore to 1.5V again, save and exit settings, and now it's back to 1.5V, like it says on the box. This is *dangerous* because one of the processors in that era, had "instant death syndrome" at that wrong voltage. The Q9650 should not be like that, or doing that. This occurred on some previous VRM/VID scenario. This has also happened on some AMD motherboards, where the idiotic BIOS uses a previous-family voltage and it's way way off. Fortunately, some of those could take 2.5V or so, and the error merely made the CPU get hot. The CPU itself was in no danger. When Intel releases info on processes at ISSCC, sometimes the headroom isn't that high. This is why on systems later than yours, memory rated as 1.5V nominal, is not to be run over 1.65V. There's some reliability issue if you ignore that warning. And it's not always the interface itself. Sometimes if you raise memory higher than VCore, a phantom diode forms in the substrate, between power distribution "rings", and power flows where it should not. A lot of silicon devices have "power sequence" requirements and when devices like the Southbridge (five rails) come up, it's a bitch to keep all those things in the right sequence. That was one of my most hated jobs at work, finding two chips I wanted to use, had different sequence requirements. And you couldn't satisfy both chip requirements at the same time. ******* Summary: The nature of your problem hasn't changed. I could find one thread, where they cleared power error by "clearing CMOS". Do that with *PSU unplugged*. For the person here, it was "dogged persistence". You can see the power beep might have been a false positive here (maybe it should have beeped something else). https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...ast-beeps.html Paul |
#3
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Getting there
On 6/01/2020 2:43 PM, Paul wrote:
Norm Why wrote: This is a continuation of an old thread: Paul suggested I try an Intel E4700 CPU. So far I have only acquired a couple ofÂ* Intel E4800 CPU(s), TDP 65 W. I cannot feel heat emitted, like with Intel Q9650 CPU. With it, PC would try to boot 3 times then give up. Now it tries forever, but gives beep code; Continuous short beeps: Power error. No BIOS screen. This is progress. I must try harder to find Intel E4700 CPU. I'll re-solder new 470uF 25V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Those are probably E8400 processors, which are fine as well. The E8400 could have a higher FSB value. The E8400 is a 45nm process "Wolfdale" CPU. A lot of boards of that era needed a BIOS update to run 45nm CPUs properly (which is why your suggestion of the E7400 was a good one, that's 65nm). Then again the BIOS update was mainly a CPU family-specific microcode update IIRC so maybe it's all good... -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. |
#4
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Getting there
This is a continuation of an old thread:
Paul suggested I try an Intel E4700 CPU. So far I have only acquired a couple of Intel E4800 CPU(s), TDP 65 W. I cannot feel heat emitted, like with Intel Q9650 CPU. With it, PC would try to boot 3 times then give up. Now it tries forever, but gives beep code; Continuous short beeps: Power error. No BIOS screen. This is progress. I must try harder to find Intel E4700 CPU. I'll re-solder new 470uF 25V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Those are probably E8400 processors, which are fine as well. The E8400 could have a higher FSB value. One way to find "friends" of a CPU, is via cpu-world. The table at the bottom of the page, shows processors for the same socket (LGA775). The E4700 should be "cheaper" as it is gutless, but likely draws the least power of the lot. Back when I had the e4700 set up on a VIA board, the whole PC drew 65W. That's because everything in the PC was gutless. http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2...7E4700%29.html You look the individuals up on "ark". https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...0-mhz-fsb.html Processor Base Frequency 2.60 GHz Bus Speed 800 MHz 200MHz (four txfr per clk) https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...3-mhz-fsb.html Processor Base Frequency 3.00 GHz Bus Speed 1333 MHz 333MHz (four txfr per clk) The memory clock is related to the CPU clock choice. These processors don't need a lot of VCore power. 36W to 43W should do, at VCore (12V @ 3A or 12V @ 4A approx). As long as the processors in question are in the CPU Support chart, everything is great from that perspective. The power will beep, if the HWmonitor spots a rail which is out of spec. Some of the rails are like "VCore". When you change CPUs, the BIOS should be checking the VID values for the processor and so on, and doing the right things. To give an example of "doing the wrong thing", take my P4B with 1.8 GHz Northwood in it. When the BIOS battery is dead, it re-computes start conditions and so on. It applies *1.75V* to the CPU, because it is mis-interpreting something. I have to hurry and enter the BIOS, and set VCore to 1.5V again, save and exit settings, and now it's back to 1.5V, like it says on the box. This is *dangerous* because one of the processors in that era, had "instant death syndrome" at that wrong voltage. The Q9650 should not be like that, or doing that. This occurred on some previous VRM/VID scenario. This has also happened on some AMD motherboards, where the idiotic BIOS uses a previous-family voltage and it's way way off. Fortunately, some of those could take 2.5V or so, and the error merely made the CPU get hot. The CPU itself was in no danger. When Intel releases info on processes at ISSCC, sometimes the headroom isn't that high. This is why on systems later than yours, memory rated as 1.5V nominal, is not to be run over 1.65V. There's some reliability issue if you ignore that warning. And it's not always the interface itself. Sometimes if you raise memory higher than VCore, a phantom diode forms in the substrate, between power distribution "rings", and power flows where it should not. A lot of silicon devices have "power sequence" requirements and when devices like the Southbridge (five rails) come up, it's a bitch to keep all those things in the right sequence. That was one of my most hated jobs at work, finding two chips I wanted to use, had different sequence requirements. And you couldn't satisfy both chip requirements at the same time. ******* Summary: The nature of your problem hasn't changed. I could find one thread, where they cleared power error by "clearing CMOS". Do that with *PSU unplugged*. For the person here, it was "dogged persistence". You can see the power beep might have been a false positive here (maybe it should have beeped something else). https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...ast-beeps.html Paul Thanks for the links, Paul, I managed to get an E4700 for $8. Postage was twice that. It was delivered in a box, so it took a long time. At this point there is no difference from the E4800. This problem will require more time. |
#5
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Getting there
This is a continuation of an old thread:
Paul suggested I try an Intel E4700 CPU. So far I have only acquired a couple of Intel E4800 CPU(s), TDP 65 W. I cannot feel heat emitted, like with Intel Q9650 CPU. With it, PC would try to boot 3 times then give up. Now it tries forever, but gives beep code; Continuous short beeps: Power error. No BIOS screen. This is progress. I must try harder to find Intel E4700 CPU. I'll re-solder new 470uF 25V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Those are probably E8400 processors, which are fine as well. The E8400 could have a higher FSB value. The E8400 is a 45nm process "Wolfdale" CPU. A lot of boards of that era needed a BIOS update to run 45nm CPUs properly (which is why your suggestion of the E7400 was a good one, that's 65nm). Then again the BIOS update was mainly a CPU family-specific microcode update IIRC so maybe it's all good... -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM" David Melville This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software. Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. |
#6
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Getting there
Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick
installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. I removed the one RAM stick to see if I got different beep codes. Nope. 'Continuous short beeps: Power error' takes priority. This means the annoying beep speaker can be removed and the system can be allowed to recycle. Paul gave a link where GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO eventually POSTed. With Q9650, I could feel heat radiated. E4700 is cold. I can still feel heat coming from somewhere but face is not directional. Touching does not reveal hot spot. Going through MOBO I found a ten-pin keyed connector not plugged in. I removed all power to peripherals, like DVD R/W drive. Like Louis Rossmann, I think I need to find a component that is "shorting", (an active short?). Where to find such tool? |
#7
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Getting there
Norm Why wrote:
Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. I removed the one RAM stick to see if I got different beep codes. Nope. 'Continuous short beeps: Power error' takes priority. This means the annoying beep speaker can be removed and the system can be allowed to recycle. Paul gave a link where GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO eventually POSTed. With Q9650, I could feel heat radiated. E4700 is cold. I can still feel heat coming from somewhere but face is not directional. Touching does not reveal hot spot. Going through MOBO I found a ten-pin keyed connector not plugged in. I removed all power to peripherals, like DVD R/W drive. Like Louis Rossmann, I think I need to find a component that is "shorting", (an active short?). Where to find such tool? The claim here is the continuous short beeps are a RAM error. https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...t-beeps-4.html It almost seems like a half-finished BIOS design or something. Some RAMs working, other RAMs not working, participants going crazy with the custom settings. I had less trouble with my VIA chipset board than that :-) (That was the board where the chipset actually works with 2GB RAM DIMMs, but the BIOS was never "tuned" to use the right Tsu and Th and the like. When I used the 1GB sticks I had, that board was flawless. Long Prime95 runs, no problem at all. BIOS issues can make an awful mess when they happen.) Paul |
#8
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Getting there
Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick
installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. I removed the one RAM stick to see if I got different beep codes. Nope. 'Continuous short beeps: Power error' takes priority. This means the annoying beep speaker can be removed and the system can be allowed to recycle. Paul gave a link where GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO eventually POSTed. With Q9650, I could feel heat radiated. E4700 is cold. I can still feel heat coming from somewhere but face is not directional. Touching does not reveal hot spot. Going through MOBO I found a ten-pin keyed connector not plugged in. I removed all power to peripherals, like DVD R/W drive. Like Louis Rossmann, I think I need to find a component that is "shorting", (an active short?). Where to find such tool? The claim here is the continuous short beeps are a RAM error. GA-EP45-DS3L ? I reseated my 500 MB RAM. https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...t-beeps-4.html It almost seems like a half-finished BIOS design or something. Some RAMs working, other RAMs not working, participants going crazy with the custom settings. I had less trouble with my VIA chipset board than that :-) (That was the board where the chipset actually works with 2GB RAM DIMMs, but the BIOS was never "tuned" to use the right Tsu and Th and the like. When I used the 1GB sticks I had, that board was flawless. Long Prime95 runs, no problem at all. BIOS issues can make an awful mess when they happen.) Paul Thanks Paul. I got a non-contact infrared thermometer and found heat was generated in all the usual suspects: components with heat sink radiators. I keep the room thermostat at 15 C and allow heat from xBox 360 and Samsung plasma TV to keep it warm. Tonight outside temperature should get down to 8 C. I'll turn off thermostat and electronics and let the room get cold. With recycle the GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO might POST. |
#9
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Getting there
Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick
installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. I removed the one RAM stick to see if I got different beep codes. Nope. 'Continuous short beeps: Power error' takes priority. This means the annoying beep speaker can be removed and the system can be allowed to recycle. Paul gave a link where GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO eventually POSTed. With Q9650, I could feel heat radiated. E4700 is cold. I can still feel heat coming from somewhere but face is not directional. Touching does not reveal hot spot. Going through MOBO I found a ten-pin keyed connector not plugged in. I removed all power to peripherals, like DVD R/W drive. Like Louis Rossmann, I think I need to find a component that is "shorting", (an active short?). Where to find such tool? The claim here is the continuous short beeps are a RAM error. GA-EP45-DS3L ? I reseated my 500 MB RAM. https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...t-beeps-4.html It almost seems like a half-finished BIOS design or something. Some RAMs working, other RAMs not working, participants going crazy with the custom settings. I had less trouble with my VIA chipset board than that :-) (That was the board where the chipset actually works with 2GB RAM DIMMs, but the BIOS was never "tuned" to use the right Tsu and Th and the like. When I used the 1GB sticks I had, that board was flawless. Long Prime95 runs, no problem at all. BIOS issues can make an awful mess when they happen.) Paul Thanks Paul. I got a non-contact infrared thermometer and found heat was generated in all the usual suspects: components with heat sink radiators. I keep the room thermostat at 15 C and allow heat from xBox 360 and Samsung plasma TV to keep it warm. Tonight outside temperature should get down to 8 C. I'll turn off thermostat and electronics and let the room get cold. With recycle the GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO might POST. On the other hand, "Semiconductor materials (carbon, silicon, germanium) typically have negative temperature coefficients of resistance." From: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...nt-resistance/ So maybe the room is too cold for the GA-EP45-DS3L to POST? |
#10
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Getting there
Norm Why wrote:
Thanks. I should mention that at this point I have one 500 MB RAM stick installed with the Intel heat sink cooler on the CPU. Maybe I will try a no RAM boot. If I can get into BIOS I can tweak it. I have BARTPE (preinstallation edition based on WinXP). On it I have the BIOS F2 upgrade. If I can boot BARTPE and install BIOS v2.0 I'm home free. I removed the one RAM stick to see if I got different beep codes. Nope. 'Continuous short beeps: Power error' takes priority. This means the annoying beep speaker can be removed and the system can be allowed to recycle. Paul gave a link where GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO eventually POSTed. With Q9650, I could feel heat radiated. E4700 is cold. I can still feel heat coming from somewhere but face is not directional. Touching does not reveal hot spot. Going through MOBO I found a ten-pin keyed connector not plugged in. I removed all power to peripherals, like DVD R/W drive. Like Louis Rossmann, I think I need to find a component that is "shorting", (an active short?). Where to find such tool? The claim here is the continuous short beeps are a RAM error. GA-EP45-DS3L ? I reseated my 500 MB RAM. https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...t-beeps-4.html It almost seems like a half-finished BIOS design or something. Some RAMs working, other RAMs not working, participants going crazy with the custom settings. I had less trouble with my VIA chipset board than that :-) (That was the board where the chipset actually works with 2GB RAM DIMMs, but the BIOS was never "tuned" to use the right Tsu and Th and the like. When I used the 1GB sticks I had, that board was flawless. Long Prime95 runs, no problem at all. BIOS issues can make an awful mess when they happen.) Paul Thanks Paul. I got a non-contact infrared thermometer and found heat was generated in all the usual suspects: components with heat sink radiators. I keep the room thermostat at 15 C and allow heat from xBox 360 and Samsung plasma TV to keep it warm. Tonight outside temperature should get down to 8 C. I'll turn off thermostat and electronics and let the room get cold. With recycle the GA-EP45-DS3L MOBO might POST. On the other hand, "Semiconductor materials (carbon, silicon, germanium) typically have negative temperature coefficients of resistance." From: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...nt-resistance/ So maybe the room is too cold for the GA-EP45-DS3L to POST? In the fossil record, I see no sign of such a temperature related problem. There may have been one or two chipsets long ago, where something about the circuit was temperature sensitive. But that is by no means a common situation. It's an outlier. Saturating logic circuits can successfully run from -55C to way way above the boiling point of water. They're not snowflakes, but you have to select the right items for the job. I found a processor the other day, for automotive usage, which goes way outside the range of anything I've ever used. I have a P45 here, and it's never had a problem starting. That's the refurb Optiplex with a dual core in it. Room temperature is the temperature it's *supposed* to work at. Sure, some electronics have trouble at -20C (maybe LED lightbulbs or some pedestal box for ATT), but that's considered one extreme of the temperature range. On the high end, it's a function of what simulation temperature the circuit was verified at. Like at work, maybe you'd set the simulation temperature to 105C for margining, even though you had no intention of ever running an actual chip at that temperature. CMOS gets slower at high temperature, and you're checking for timing failures by using a simulation temperature that high. Then the idea is, operation at temperatures below that is just fine and dandy. Where circuits have problems, is in the ad-hoc circuit used for backfeed protection and parts of the reset circuit. Some of these rely on analog voltages and capacitors, and occasionally some booboo in there causes a motherboard to have a temperature issue. It's not normal for pure-digital circuits (Northbridge/Southbridge/CPU) to become "wobbly" with temp. On the Southbridge, the only problem I've heard of, is the RTC and CMOS RAM, the RAM may not function at reduced voltage (CMOS battery getting weak) and at some non-room temperature. Some of these conditions when they happened, were considered to be functional failures and the chipset should never have been shipped that way. Again, this is not a common condition, and there hasn't been a problem like that in yonks. Have you tried your one-stick-of-RAM test, in each of the four slots individually ? Don't forget to remove all power from the system, before moving the stick of RAM. That means switch off at the back or unplug the PC power cable, wait *at least* 30 seconds for 5VSB to drain. Asus motherboards all have a green LED onboard, that monitors +5VSB and when that LED extinguishes, then it's safe to move RAM. I don't know how many other brands have that. On some motherboards, there is the chicken-versus-egg problem, where the user needs to change BIOS versions, the board won't come up, and you can't flash the BIOS. Your board has a Dual BIOS, and by now, probably both sides have the same BIOS version. That would be another variable at this point. That's what the hope of using some other processor was about - getting the board to start by using an alternate processor, so the BIOS version could get changed when you wanted to change it. For removable BIOS chips, you could flash them using a lab programmer. But I no longer have access to stuff like that, and I don't know of any computer stores in town who I would expect to own such equipment. My newest motherboard here, has its own flasher onboard. You can change the BIOS version, *without* a CPU being in the CPU socket. There is a special USB port, you plug in a flash stick with a BIOS image on it, there's a pushbutton on the back of the PC, you press that, and a few minutes later, the machine has a new BIOS version. I've never used the feature, but the feature sure was attractive when I bought it. Because, it meant I "couldn't be held hostage by a motherboard refusal-to-start". There is a microcontroller next to the USB port, that reads the flash stick and writes the BIOS chip with what it finds. What used to cost $150, now costs a buck to do. Paul |
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