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  #21  
Old March 11th 04, 01:57 PM
Tony A.
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"P2B" wrote in message
...
[...]
Windows NT onwards have had a remote console included, though not

installed
by default. On Windows 2000 it's called wsremote.exe, installed with the
support tools from the Win2k CD. Very useful.

Tony


Useful tools indeed - but not my definition of a console. If I can't
observe the boot process and access the BIOS, it's not a console ;-)

Your Sun boxes can do that? That's pretty cool, wasn't aware of that kind of
console. I guess that must be built into the BIOS - maybe you could get
similar functionality on the PC using LinuxBIOS. Better you than me
though...

Tony


  #22  
Old March 11th 04, 03:26 PM
David Maynard
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P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



[snip]

It's a real shame PCs don't have a serial console, or a cheap way to
add one - my firewall and file server are headless Sun boxes buried
in the depths of the basement. Physical access is a pain, but rarely
required because the consoles are accessible via telnet to the
terminal server. There are several PCs that do somewhat useful things
in the den, but their continued existence (and power consumption)
would be a lot easier to justify if they could be similarly removed
from sight :-)




I know what you mean. Answer: PCAnywhere



Sure, if it's running. When it's not, you need physical access and KVM
to find out why not. I have room to move more systems into the dungeon,
but not if they drag screens in too. Sun boxes default to serial i/o if
there's no KVM attached, but there's no simple way to make a PC run
headless - which is what you want if it's a server running Solaris x86.
This is the cheapest I've seen:

http://www.realweasel.com/products.html


Well, I see what you're looking for but, at that price, I'll forego
watching the BIOS post when it boots and move the one set of KVM cables
if it breaks.


  #23  
Old March 12th 04, 02:36 AM
P2B
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Tony A. wrote:
"P2B" wrote in message
...
[...]

Windows NT onwards have had a remote console included, though not


installed

by default. On Windows 2000 it's called wsremote.exe, installed with the
support tools from the Win2k CD. Very useful.

Tony


Useful tools indeed - but not my definition of a console. If I can't
observe the boot process and access the BIOS, it's not a console ;-)


Your Sun boxes can do that? That's pretty cool, wasn't aware of that kind of
console. I guess that must be built into the BIOS - maybe you could get
similar functionality on the PC using LinuxBIOS. Better you than me
though...

Tony


All Sun boot proms (aka BIOS) default to i/o via the Serial A port if
they don't detect an attached keyboard or screen, so I have mine
connected to a terminal server which allows me to telnet to the serial
port. Seems to me it wouldn't be rocket science to implement the same
thing in a PC BIOS, but I've never seen it done.

  #24  
Old March 12th 04, 02:38 AM
P2B
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David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:




[snip]

It's a real shame PCs don't have a serial console, or a cheap way to
add one - my firewall and file server are headless Sun boxes buried
in the depths of the basement. Physical access is a pain, but rarely
required because the consoles are accessible via telnet to the
terminal server. There are several PCs that do somewhat useful
things in the den, but their continued existence (and power
consumption) would be a lot easier to justify if they could be
similarly removed from sight :-)




I know what you mean. Answer: PCAnywhere




Sure, if it's running. When it's not, you need physical access and KVM
to find out why not. I have room to move more systems into the
dungeon, but not if they drag screens in too. Sun boxes default to
serial i/o if there's no KVM attached, but there's no simple way to
make a PC run headless - which is what you want if it's a server
running Solaris x86. This is the cheapest I've seen:

http://www.realweasel.com/products.html


Well, I see what you're looking for but, at that price, I'll forego
watching the BIOS post when it boots and move the one set of KVM cables
if it breaks.


Agreed... I'm just spoiled because the Suns use the serial console by
default - and I have a terminal server but no KVM switch.

  #25  
Old March 12th 04, 09:47 AM
David Maynard
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Posts: n/a
Default

P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:




[snip]

It's a real shame PCs don't have a serial console, or a cheap way
to add one - my firewall and file server are headless Sun boxes
buried in the depths of the basement. Physical access is a pain,
but rarely required because the consoles are accessible via telnet
to the terminal server. There are several PCs that do somewhat
useful things in the den, but their continued existence (and power
consumption) would be a lot easier to justify if they could be
similarly removed from sight :-)





I know what you mean. Answer: PCAnywhere




Sure, if it's running. When it's not, you need physical access and
KVM to find out why not. I have room to move more systems into the
dungeon, but not if they drag screens in too. Sun boxes default to
serial i/o if there's no KVM attached, but there's no simple way to
make a PC run headless - which is what you want if it's a server
running Solaris x86. This is the cheapest I've seen:

http://www.realweasel.com/products.html


Well, I see what you're looking for but, at that price, I'll forego
watching the BIOS post when it boots and move the one set of KVM
cables if it breaks.



Agreed... I'm just spoiled because the Suns use the serial console by
default - and I have a terminal server but no KVM switch.


Look on the bright side: you have the Sun boxes

Btw, do you know anyone who carries the blasted case I/O shields (MoBo
I/O), by themselves?

  #26  
Old March 12th 04, 03:00 PM
P2B
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Posts: n/a
Default



David Maynard wrote:
P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:





[snip]

It's a real shame PCs don't have a serial console, or a cheap way
to add one - my firewall and file server are headless Sun boxes
buried in the depths of the basement. Physical access is a pain,
but rarely required because the consoles are accessible via telnet
to the terminal server. There are several PCs that do somewhat
useful things in the den, but their continued existence (and power
consumption) would be a lot easier to justify if they could be
similarly removed from sight :-)






I know what you mean. Answer: PCAnywhere





Sure, if it's running. When it's not, you need physical access and
KVM to find out why not. I have room to move more systems into the
dungeon, but not if they drag screens in too. Sun boxes default to
serial i/o if there's no KVM attached, but there's no simple way to
make a PC run headless - which is what you want if it's a server
running Solaris x86. This is the cheapest I've seen:

http://www.realweasel.com/products.html


Well, I see what you're looking for but, at that price, I'll forego
watching the BIOS post when it boots and move the one set of KVM
cables if it breaks.




Agreed... I'm just spoiled because the Suns use the serial console by
default - and I have a terminal server but no KVM switch.


Look on the bright side: you have the Sun boxes

Btw, do you know anyone who carries the blasted case I/O shields (MoBo
I/O), by themselves?


I didn't know they were hard to find, last time I needed one the small
PC shop by my house had them - charged me a whole 50c

  #27  
Old March 13th 04, 03:27 AM
David Maynard
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Posts: n/a
Default

P2B wrote:



David Maynard wrote:


Look on the bright side: you have the Sun boxes

Btw, do you know anyone who carries the blasted case I/O shields (MoBo
I/O), by themselves?



I didn't know they were hard to find, last time I needed one the small
PC shop by my house had them - charged me a whole 50c


I can imagine they have 'spares' left over from the ones that come with
cases but I don't have a small PC shop near by.

I can't find them on-line though.

  #28  
Old March 14th 04, 12:39 PM
David Maynard
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~misfit~ wrote in message ...
David Maynard wrote:
Most actually 'do' something useful but some are simply for
nostalgia: like the Dell 486 LPX upgraded to a P83 running WFW 3.11.
I don't do much with that but, boy, WFW is lightning fast on a P83.
hehe


LOL. I had one of those 486 - P1 83Mhz overdrive CPUs. I got ridiculous
money for it on an auction site. It would have been cheaper to get a Socket
7 board and a P166MMX and some old 72 pin RAM than buying that. Maybe it

was
a collector though, I know I regret selling it.
--
~misfit~



I got to thinking about this thread so I pulled out the 'upgraded' Dell
(P83) and fired it up, to discover the CMOS battery is dead (not a BIG
surprise). Anyway, I'm on it right now with WFW3.11 networked in. Not bad
for 16 meg of RAM, eh? Actually, 16 meg was pretty hot stuff for 3.11. hehe

Btw, does anyone rememeber how to set the monitor refresh rate on WFW 3.11?

Hmm. Where the heck did the spell checker go?



  #29  
Old March 15th 04, 12:38 AM
~misfit~
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Default

David Maynard wrote:
~misfit~ wrote in message ...
LOL. I had one of those 486 - P1 83Mhz overdrive CPUs. I got
ridiculous money for it on an auction site. It would have been
cheaper to get a Socket 7 board and a P166MMX and some old 72 pin
RAM than buying that. Maybe it was a collector though, I know I
regret selling it. --
~misfit~



I got to thinking about this thread so I pulled out the 'upgraded'
Dell (P83) and fired it up, to discover the CMOS battery is dead (not
a BIG surprise). Anyway, I'm on it right now with WFW3.11 networked
in. Not bad for 16 meg of RAM, eh? Actually, 16 meg was pretty hot
stuff for 3.11. hehe


Hell yeah, I had 4MB in my 3.11 machine. Took it up to 8MB when I installed
W95, (RAM was *damn* expensive back then) then to 16MB. Finally got to 32MB
with W98. Now the only machine I've got running 98SE has 256MB. *Big*
difference over 32MB, although the CPU is faster too.

Btw, does anyone rememeber how to set the monitor refresh rate on WFW
3.11?


Sorry, no. I didn't use 3.11 for long and never really got the hang of it,
being my first Wintel machine. W95 was a boon for me.

Hmm. Where the heck did the spell checker go?


LOL.
--
~misfit~


  #30  
Old March 15th 04, 06:14 AM
David Maynard
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Posts: n/a
Default

~misfit~ wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

~misfit~ wrote in message ...

LOL. I had one of those 486 - P1 83Mhz overdrive CPUs. I got
ridiculous money for it on an auction site. It would have been
cheaper to get a Socket 7 board and a P166MMX and some old 72 pin
RAM than buying that. Maybe it was a collector though, I know I
regret selling it. --
~misfit~



I got to thinking about this thread so I pulled out the 'upgraded'
Dell (P83) and fired it up, to discover the CMOS battery is dead (not
a BIG surprise). Anyway, I'm on it right now with WFW3.11 networked
in. Not bad for 16 meg of RAM, eh? Actually, 16 meg was pretty hot
stuff for 3.11. hehe



Hell yeah, I had 4MB in my 3.11 machine. Took it up to 8MB when I installed
W95, (RAM was *damn* expensive back then) then to 16MB. Finally got to 32MB
with W98. Now the only machine I've got running 98SE has 256MB. *Big*
difference over 32MB, although the CPU is faster too.


Yep. When I bought my 'super duper' 486/66 I got 8 Meg. Boy, the guys in
software development were drooling over that one when they saw it. hehe

I usually shoot for 32 meg minimum for Win95 and 64 Meg for Win98,
although Win98 is workable on 32meg too. But my personal record for
Win95 is running it on an old 486 notebook with only 4 meg. It DID
'run', sorta, but it spent more time swapping than anything useful.

That reminds me of the family that wanted me to fix their old Packard
Bell. Among other things they complained it was REAL slow. Well, it was
only a P90 but, the kicker was, they had gotten a "free upgrade" Win95
CD with it and, apparently, no one had bothered to tell them that they
should have upgraded the 4 meg RAM too. LOL Yeah, it was damn slow all
right. (I had thought they were 'exaggerating' when they said he'd go to
a web page, leave for a snack while waiting for it, and then come back
to wait some more. Nope. LOL) And they had lived with that for YEARS. I
had some spare parts so I put in 64 Meg RAM and hacked in a P233MMX. And
I mean hacked. The board wasn't designed for MMX but I found a no name
'adapter' that used a linear regulator, which got hotter than a small
nuke on steroids. So I took a TO3 heatsink, of a particularly convenient
dimension, and wedged a 486 processor fan between the fins. hehe. Looks
and works great, if not efficient (the custom made heatsink/fan on the
regulator is bigger than the one on the processor. LOL)


My LCD 'tablets' are running Win98SE because that's the only touch
screen driver there is for them (well, the ones the touch screen works
on that is. The other has Win2K Server) And one of the tualatin
machines, the venerable BH6 as a matter of fact, is running Win98SE for
compatibility with some old hardwa vidcam to be precise. I LIKE Win98.


Btw, does anyone rememeber how to set the monitor refresh rate on WFW
3.11?



Sorry, no. I didn't use 3.11 for long and never really got the hang of it,
being my first Wintel machine. W95 was a boon for me.


Not all that different than Linux, actually. SOME where there's a file
with the mod line definitions but I don't remember where. Plus, it's
possible that the on-board video just doesn't support any other display
timings.


Hmm. Where the heck did the spell checker go?



LOL.


Think that's FUNNY, DO YA? hehe

Thought you might. g

Says it uses the MS Office spell checker, which I DO have, but maybe I
installed them in the 'wrong order'. Like doing I.E. 5 after Office 4.3,
or vice versa, so one of them doesn't know to 'add' that.

Funny how we loose time perspective. The After Dark screen saver just
kicked in on the WFW 3.11 machine and it's "Star Trek: The Next
Generation." Isn't that supposed to be the 'modern' one? hehe

Here's a now useless tidbit for ya. These old Dell Mobos use a separate
4.5 volt battery, velcroed to the case, for the CMOS/Clock keep alive
and they don't do spit when down to .5 volts. hehe. They WILL hold CMOS,
though, at 2.5V... but the clock don't run.


~misfit~



 




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