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PCs to change radically in 2004! (The Enquirer)



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 30th 04, 11:52 PM
Wayne Youngman
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"Ed" wrote

Yeah, the more I think about it.... as usual AMD will have no choice but
to follow what Intel sets as a standard, so the ATX layout could be
totally obsolete a lot sooner then we may think. :0

BTX sort of reminds me of when Intel abandoned Socket-7 and AMD kept on
using it and improved it (super socket-7). Motherboard makers were
selling boards that had AT and ATX power plugs on them, EDO and DIMM ram
slots, possibly even had AGP slots ? on them before finally getting
fazed out by the ATX standards. I guess the same thing could happen
again, I'd sure like to get at least another 2 years out of my $100+
Antec tower!

Is there anything really stopping mobo makers from making AMD boards
that fit a ATX case but support DDR2, the new hardware cards and PSUs?



Hi,

hehe here is an interesting report:

*Intel Chipsets to Lack AGP Support?*
www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1953

If this is true, than I freely admit that I had *No Idea* that Alderwood and
Grantsdale chipsets (Prescott Native platform) wouldn't support my shiny new
Radeon 9800 AGP 8x. I can't believe that Intel will do that (will they?).

Pretty much says what you said, that VIA and SiS will try and make a
*Hybrid* board.

Man, I don't remember such a time that all this new stuff was happening at
the same time. I may just have to build a vanilla P4c *classic* and sit it
out for a few years :P.

Don't like the fact that you can't swap out part so easily. Wonder if they
do these things to *force* people to buy more hardware?
--
Wayne ][


  #22  
Old January 30th 04, 11:52 PM
Michael Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wayne Youngman wrote:
"Ed" wrote
If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for
another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout
anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other
choice.



Hi,
interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away
*totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then
all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means
that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with
AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today
only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between
AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose!


The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards) all
took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT or
ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that
will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There
will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably
an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than
straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of
"legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to
make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no
AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus.

I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard for
PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does
take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will
support it.

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open


  #23  
Old January 31st 04, 12:01 AM
Wayne Youngman
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Michael Brown" wrote
The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards)

all
took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT

or
ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that
will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There
will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably
an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than
straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of
"legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to
make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no
AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus.

I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard

for
PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does
take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will
support it.



Hi,
great reply there! Yes *Historically* that's how its worked out so far, and
normally I would agree with what you said, but INTEL is *very* aware of AMD
now, and may be taking swift action to pull their whole platform up-to-date.

2004 looks like it will be a very significant year in PC platforms, I
thought the AMD side of things was getting messy, now it looks like INTEL
are going for it too!

At the end of the day I'm sure it will all be for the best, but for all us
*enthusiasts* who build machines for friends/clients etc. . . we got our
work cut out for us! what a learning curve, hehe and then we can get into
64-Bit computing :P
--
Wayne ][


  #24  
Old January 31st 04, 12:37 AM
John Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG"
wrote:

and that is a *good* thing?

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified


Tom,

Stop top-posting replies.............. :-)
I have to read down to the end to find out what you
are talking about............

John Lewis

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote
If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for
another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout
anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other
choice.



Hi,
interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away
*totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all
your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not

one
single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart

from
Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you
can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for
long, you must choose!


You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . .
--
Wayne ][





  #25  
Old January 31st 04, 01:24 AM
Mark H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Hi,

when was the last time you had your Case *form-factor* changed? (4 years ago
maybe?)

when was the last time you had your PSU *form-factor* changed? (2 years ago
maybe?)

when was the last time you had your Graphics Card *form-factor* changed?(4
years ago maybe?)

when was the last time you had your Memory *form-factor* changed?(4 years
ago maybe?)

when was the last time you had your PCI/Expansion Cards *form-factor*
changed?(4 years ago maybe?)

Please try and understand my posts before you give a *blanket* response
people, what is happening here is *Exceptional* don't you see? when ever in
your life have you ever seen something like this before?

never. . .thought so!


Bull**** - about 1980 - and it was far more exciting!
http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/4004thb.htm



--
Mark H --- Frag on !
NF7-S v2.0 Win2k-sp4
WinXp-sp1a
  #26  
Old January 31st 04, 01:27 AM
Chogaire
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Wayne Youngman"

what is happening here is *Exceptional* don't you see?

If you say so boss!


  #27  
Old January 31st 04, 02:00 AM
Dashi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A very good thing!

"John Lewis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG"
wrote:

and that is a *good* thing?

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified


Tom,

Stop top-posting replies.............. :-)
I have to read down to the end to find out what you
are talking about............

John Lewis

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote
If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for
another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout
anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other
choice.


Hi,
interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away
*totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all
your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not

one
single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart

from
Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound,
you
can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for
long, you must choose!


You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . .
--
Wayne ][







  #28  
Old January 31st 04, 02:24 AM
TomG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I always top post replies. always have with very few exceptions.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"John Lewis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG"
wrote:

and that is a *good* thing?

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified


Tom,

Stop top-posting replies.............. :-)
I have to read down to the end to find out what you
are talking about............

John Lewis

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote
If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for
another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout
anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other
choice.


Hi,
interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away
*totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then

all
your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not

one
single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart

from
Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound,

you
can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for
long, you must choose!


You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . .
--
Wayne ][







  #29  
Old January 31st 04, 02:42 AM
rstlne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards)

all
took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT

or
ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that
will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There
will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably
an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than
straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of
"legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to
make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no
AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus.

I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard

for
PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does
take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will
support it.


Yea it's been this way since I can remember working on pc's (286's for me)..
But if you look at the BTX standard (not yet adopted by anyone other than
Intel, May it fall the way of the ITX Standard) then it's not going to allow
(as easily) for some of these products to go into your standard pc.. It's
more than a cunning ploy that the board now goes on the other side of the
system .. Granted it might not be a big problem for board mfgr's.. I
still think it's a much needed move, and i'll be happy to see AGP and PCI
die.. I hate the idea of mixing cards in a system.. It's virtually a must
now cause you have a hard time getting good PCI video cards..

If the BTX can deliver well for "Thermal" and "Airflow" requirements then it
will def be adopted.. I would LOVE to see some good changes to allow me to
cool my system (the Btx doesnt seem to hav ethem) ..

I guess the big thing will be how it all gets adopted like you say..
will we have ATX12v/BTX Psu's & Cases rolling out the doors soon
That'll be the sign that the industry has deided to take it and run


  #30  
Old January 31st 04, 04:58 AM
John Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:24:15 -0500, "TomG"
wrote:

I always top post replies. always have with very few exceptions.


Can't teach an old dog new tricks, I suppose...

Even your sheep-acquaintances know that by now..............

John Lewis

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"John Lewis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG"
wrote:

and that is a *good* thing?

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified


Tom,

Stop top-posting replies.............. :-)
I have to read down to the end to find out what you
are talking about............

John Lewis

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote
If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for
another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout
anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other
choice.


Hi,
interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away
*totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then

all
your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not
one
single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart
from
Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound,

you
can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for
long, you must choose!


You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . .
--
Wayne ][








 




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