HP LaserJet 2200DN -- dirty mark on second side

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 12:44 AM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive. Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns, it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the same or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks - are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things improve.
Tony

On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive. Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns, it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the same or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks - are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive.
Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that
turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns, it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get
at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of
caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the same
or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks - are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are
always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the
fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading
edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You
could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce
This printer uses a duplexer without a long roller. It is years since I worked
on one of these and I don't recall seeing the issue you are experiencing.
The duplexer has a tray (feed guide) that is tilted during the operation of the
duplexer by a solenoid. During duplexing the paper touches this guide and I
think only one side of the paper will do so.
I would remove the toner cartridge, and the paper tray. Turn the printer over
and the duplexer guide should be visible, you can release it with a little
green lever from memory. I don't think you need to remove any covers to do
this. Check to see if there is any toner deposit on the tray.
Turning it iover may dislodge loose toner so do so on a suitable surface or
newspaper.
Despite what I said about timed rollers, the duplexer is definitely timed
relative to the leading edge of the paper.
You have replaced the toner cartridge I believe.
Duplexing is a double print cycle and if the problem is not the duplexer tray
then it is either the transfer roller or the fuser, there are no other rollers
that are full width. You cannot see defects on the transfer roller easily but
normally fuser defects are obvious. I once had a similar problem with a
Laserjet 8100 (a fast A3 printer) which turned out to be a grounding problem on
a plate in the paper path. This caused defects at the same place on every sheet
(like yours) but was present whether duplexing or not. If you need to inspect
the fuser you can see it from the back but be careful, the roller is hot enough
to burn you when the printer is powered on and it is much more fragile than it
looks. The problem is that it is difficult to see all of the roller without
taking the fuser out, which is not actually all that hard.
I am reluctant to believe this is either of those rollers but duplexer timing
is critical and so I guess it could be.
Tony

On 07/15/2017 06:22 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive.
Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that
turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns, it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get
at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of
caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the same
or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks - are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are
always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the
fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading
edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You
could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce
This printer uses a duplexer without a long roller. It is years since I worked
on one of these and I don't recall seeing the issue you are experiencing.
The duplexer has a tray (feed guide) that is tilted during the operation of the
duplexer by a solenoid. During duplexing the paper touches this guide and I
think only one side of the paper will do so.
I would remove the toner cartridge, and the paper tray. Turn the printer over
and the duplexer guide should be visible, you can release it with a little
green lever from memory. I don't think you need to remove any covers to do
this. Check to see if there is any toner deposit on the tray.
Turning it iover may dislodge loose toner so do so on a suitable surface or
newspaper.
Despite what I said about timed rollers, the duplexer is definitely timed
relative to the leading edge of the paper.
You have replaced the toner cartridge I believe.
Duplexing is a double print cycle and if the problem is not the duplexer tray
then it is either the transfer roller or the fuser, there are no other rollers
that are full width. You cannot see defects on the transfer roller easily but
normally fuser defects are obvious. I once had a similar problem with a
Laserjet 8100 (a fast A3 printer) which turned out to be a grounding problem on
a plate in the paper path. This caused defects at the same place on every sheet
(like yours) but was present whether duplexing or not. If you need to inspect
the fuser you can see it from the back but be careful, the roller is hot enough
to burn you when the printer is powered on and it is much more fragile than it
looks. The problem is that it is difficult to see all of the roller without
taking the fuser out, which is not actually all that hard.
I am reluctant to believe this is either of those rollers but duplexer timing
is critical and so I guess it could be.

Doesn't the paper contact both of those rollers even in single-side
printing?

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 06:22 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on
the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from
the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive.
Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer
with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that
turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns,
it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page
printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a
new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies
but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get
at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges
are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some
sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of
caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or
photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the
same
or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks -
are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are
always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the
fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading
edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there
as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You
could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things
improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce
This printer uses a duplexer without a long roller. It is years since I
worked
on one of these and I don't recall seeing the issue you are experiencing.
The duplexer has a tray (feed guide) that is tilted during the operation of
the
duplexer by a solenoid. During duplexing the paper touches this guide and I
think only one side of the paper will do so.
I would remove the toner cartridge, and the paper tray. Turn the printer over
and the duplexer guide should be visible, you can release it with a little
green lever from memory. I don't think you need to remove any covers to do
this. Check to see if there is any toner deposit on the tray.
Turning it iover may dislodge loose toner so do so on a suitable surface or
newspaper.
Despite what I said about timed rollers, the duplexer is definitely timed
relative to the leading edge of the paper.
You have replaced the toner cartridge I believe.
Duplexing is a double print cycle and if the problem is not the duplexer tray
then it is either the transfer roller or the fuser, there are no other
rollers
that are full width. You cannot see defects on the transfer roller easily but
normally fuser defects are obvious. I once had a similar problem with a
Laserjet 8100 (a fast A3 printer) which turned out to be a grounding problem
on
a plate in the paper path. This caused defects at the same place on every
sheet
(like yours) but was present whether duplexing or not. If you need to inspect
the fuser you can see it from the back but be careful, the roller is hot
enough
to burn you when the printer is powered on and it is much more fragile than
it
looks. The problem is that it is difficult to see all of the roller without
taking the fuser out, which is not actually all that hard.
I am reluctant to believe this is either of those rollers but duplexer timing
is critical and so I guess it could be.

Doesn't the paper contact both of those rollers even in single-side
printing?

Perce
Yes it does, also since they are not timed I would expect that the defect would
always be on the same place on the page if they were responsible, which is why
I doubt they are the cause.
However when duplexing there is a timing element involved.
Nevertheless I recommend turning the printer over and looking at the plate.
Tony

On 07/15/2017 09:52 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 06:22 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on
the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from
the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive.
Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer
with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that
turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns,
it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page
printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a
new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies
but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to get
at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges
are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some
sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of
caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or
photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the
same
or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks -
are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are
always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the
fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading
edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is there
as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You
could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things
improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce
This printer uses a duplexer without a long roller. It is years since I
worked
on one of these and I don't recall seeing the issue you are experiencing.
The duplexer has a tray (feed guide) that is tilted during the operation of
the
duplexer by a solenoid. During duplexing the paper touches this guide and I
think only one side of the paper will do so.
I would remove the toner cartridge, and the paper tray. Turn the printer over
and the duplexer guide should be visible, you can release it with a little
green lever from memory. I don't think you need to remove any covers to do
this. Check to see if there is any toner deposit on the tray.
Turning it iover may dislodge loose toner so do so on a suitable surface or
newspaper.
Despite what I said about timed rollers, the duplexer is definitely timed
relative to the leading edge of the paper.
You have replaced the toner cartridge I believe.
Duplexing is a double print cycle and if the problem is not the duplexer tray
then it is either the transfer roller or the fuser, there are no other
rollers
that are full width. You cannot see defects on the transfer roller easily but
normally fuser defects are obvious. I once had a similar problem with a
Laserjet 8100 (a fast A3 printer) which turned out to be a grounding problem
on
a plate in the paper path. This caused defects at the same place on every
sheet
(like yours) but was present whether duplexing or not. If you need to inspect
the fuser you can see it from the back but be careful, the roller is hot
enough
to burn you when the printer is powered on and it is much more fragile than
it
looks. The problem is that it is difficult to see all of the roller without
taking the fuser out, which is not actually all that hard.
I am reluctant to believe this is either of those rollers but duplexer timing
is critical and so I guess it could be.

Doesn't the paper contact both of those rollers even in single-side
printing?

Perce
Yes it does, also since they are not timed I would expect that the defect would
always be on the same place on the page if they were responsible, which is why
I doubt they are the cause.
However when duplexing there is a timing element involved.
Nevertheless I recommend turning the printer over and looking at the plate.

Sorry. I forgot to say that I had already turned the printer over and
checked the duplexer tray: no sign of any contamination.

The Service Manual has diagrams of all kinds of printing errors, but
nothing like what I'm seeing. There is one diagram with precise
measurements for repeated errors and the printer components that cause
the errors at each specific interval -- but nothing for a once-per-page
error.

For now I can print what I need by doing each page separately and
turning the stack over to print the second page, but I really want to
find the problem.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 09:52 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 06:22 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/14/2017 05:08 PM, Tony wrote:

If I print in duplex mode, I get a dirty mark across the page on
the
second side. It's the same whether I print from the tray or from
the
manual feed.

Could this be a cartridge problem? It's a years-old
remanufactured
cartridge, but the dirty marks have only just appeared.

Reliable cartridges now seem to be somewhat scarce and expensive.
Would
it be more economical in the long run just to buy a new printer
with
cheaper cartridges? Brother? Samsung?

It sounds like the dirty marks are coming from the mechanism that
turns
the page over for duplex printing. Chances are you can clean the
printer and eliminate the problem. But if the dirty mark returns,
it
might be caused by toner leaking from a worn-out cartridge.

I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. Not familiar with
Samsung.

NOTE: Smaller cartridges are usually more expensive per page
printed.

Sorry, Fred, I only just saw your reply. In the meantime I bought a
new
(remanufactured) cartridge, which certainly produces blacker copies
but
does not eliminate the smudge, so I think you are right about the
problem being in the duplexer mechanism. Now to figure out how to
get
at
it.

I did look at Brother laser printers but found that the cartridges
are
not as cheap as I had imagined.

Getting at the roller that is involved in duplex printing seems to
require major disassembly of the printer. Are there laser-printer
cleaning sheets that will work with a duplex printer? I have some
sheets
that consist of very thick and stiff paper with some somewhat sticky
bands on one side, but they get jammed if I try duplex printing.

Perce
I am not aware of any cleaning paper of that sort, but as a word of
caution
be
very careful to not use any coated paper in laser printers unless it
is
specifically stated as being suitable for laser printers or
photocopiers.
To
do
so risks damage to the fuser.

It's the same stuff I used for the LaserJet III (which was not a
duplex
printer, of course) many years back, and it claims to be specifically
for laser printers, copiers, and FAX machines.

Let me give a more detailed description of the problem:

Double-sided 8.5" x 14.0" prints have a grayish line the full width of
the page (but not uniform density across the page) on the second side
a
couple of inches from the end "outer" end, i.e., the end that entered
the printer last. Double-sided 8.5" x 11.0" prints have the same line,
but a little closer to the end of the page.

As far as I can see the only full-width rollers are the black one that
is visible when the toner cartridge is removed, and a reddish-brown
one
that is visible when I open the back to allow paper to collect at the
back -- but then there is no duplex print capability. That latter
roller
looks perfectly clean to me but is not easily accessible.

Perce
Are the distances from the short edge of the paper always exactly the
same
or
do they vary?
In other words the distance from the bottom of the page to the marks -
are
they
always the same?

Those distances are the same for each print on the given size of paper.

And, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that second roller
(the reddish-brown one) is involved in pushing the paper out of the back
as well. Yes! Verified by watching the paper come out the back.

Looking at exploded diagrams at printerworks.com, I see that there is --
as is to be expected -- a roller in the fuser assembly, but that is
surely involved in single-sided copies as well, isn't it?

AND I had seen this sometimes with the old toner cartridge, but now with
the new one as well, the print on the second side is sometimes extremely
light, starting from just an inch or so past that gray line.

Perce
If the distance of the defect from top or bottom of a sheet of paper are
always
the same then you can eliminate the following as a cause.
Toner cartridge, the small roller just below the toner cartridge and the
fuser.
Clearly the feed and pickup mechanism is also not the cause.
That is because none of those rollers are 'timed' relative to the leading
edge
of the paper.
The duplexer rollers are another matter and I suspect the problem is
there
as
someone else has mentioned.
If cleaning paper does not work then dismantling is the right option. You
could
always try to feed a hundred pages of normal paper and see if things
improve.

I now have a .pdf of the official Service Manual, which has much clearer
diagrams than the ones on the Printer Works site, but I still don't see
a full-width roller that is involved only in duplex printing as far as I
can see, the only full-width roller involved in duplex printing is the
one at the back, which is driven in reverse to push the paper through
that guide that sits immediately above Tray 2 (and can be dropped down
to remove a misfed sheet by operating the little green button that is
accessible by removing the upper cassette).

Perce
This printer uses a duplexer without a long roller. It is years since I
worked
on one of these and I don't recall seeing the issue you are experiencing.
The duplexer has a tray (feed guide) that is tilted during the operation of
the
duplexer by a solenoid. During duplexing the paper touches this guide and I
think only one side of the paper will do so.
I would remove the toner cartridge, and the paper tray. Turn the printer
over
and the duplexer guide should be visible, you can release it with a little
green lever from memory. I don't think you need to remove any covers to do
this. Check to see if there is any toner deposit on the tray.
Turning it iover may dislodge loose toner so do so on a suitable surface or
newspaper.
Despite what I said about timed rollers, the duplexer is definitely timed
relative to the leading edge of the paper.
You have replaced the toner cartridge I believe.
Duplexing is a double print cycle and if the problem is not the duplexer
tray
then it is either the transfer roller or the fuser, there are no other
rollers
that are full width. You cannot see defects on the transfer roller easily
but
normally fuser defects are obvious. I once had a similar problem with a
Laserjet 8100 (a fast A3 printer) which turned out to be a grounding
problem
on
a plate in the paper path. This caused defects at the same place on every
sheet
(like yours) but was present whether duplexing or not. If you need to
inspect
the fuser you can see it from the back but be careful, the roller is hot
enough
to burn you when the printer is powered on and it is much more fragile than
it
looks. The problem is that it is difficult to see all of the roller without
taking the fuser out, which is not actually all that hard.
I am reluctant to believe this is either of those rollers but duplexer
timing
is critical and so I guess it could be.

Doesn't the paper contact both of those rollers even in single-side
printing?

Perce
Yes it does, also since they are not timed I would expect that the defect
would
always be on the same place on the page if they were responsible, which is
why
I doubt they are the cause.
However when duplexing there is a timing element involved.
Nevertheless I recommend turning the printer over and looking at the plate.

Sorry. I forgot to say that I had already turned the printer over and
checked the duplexer tray: no sign of any contamination.

The Service Manual has diagrams of all kinds of printing errors, but
nothing like what I'm seeing. There is one diagram with precise
measurements for repeated errors and the printer components that cause
the errors at each specific interval -- but nothing for a once-per-page
error.

For now I can print what I need by doing each page separately and
turning the stack over to print the second page, but I really want to
find the problem.

Perce
Maybe somebody else has seen this. You could cross post to the HP newsgroups.
There used to be a very active HP expert forum but I cannot remember the name.
Also thye Fix Your Own Printer forum may help.
Every full width roller in the prinhter will, if damaged or worn, produce at
least two defects on an A4 or Legal page when not duplexing. That is not
happening so it has to be something weird.
If it was in a workshop I would swap out components until it was fixed but that
would cost more than a replacement printer.
Tony

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 09:52 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/15/2017 06:22 PM, Tony wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
snipped for brevity

For now I can print what I need by doing each page separately and
turning the stack over to print the second page, but I really want to
find the problem.

Perce
Just a thought. Does the defect appear if the page is blank? The reason for the
question is to determine if this is a "ghost" image rather than a dirty mark.
Tony

On 07/16/2017 06:41 PM, Tony wrote:

Sorry. I forgot to say that I had already turned the printer over and
checked the duplexer tray: no sign of any contamination.

The Service Manual has diagrams of all kinds of printing errors, but
nothing like what I'm seeing. There is one diagram with precise
measurements for repeated errors and the printer components that cause
the errors at each specific interval -- but nothing for a once-per-page
error.

For now I can print what I need by doing each page separately and
turning the stack over to print the second page, but I really want to
find the problem.

Maybe somebody else has seen this. You could cross post to the HP newsgroups.
There used to be a very active HP expert forum but I cannot remember the name.
Also thye Fix Your Own Printer forum may help.
Every full width roller in the prinhter will, if damaged or worn, produce at
least two defects on an A4 or Legal page when not duplexing. That is not
happening so it has to be something weird.
If it was in a workshop I would swap out components until it was fixed but that
would cost more than a replacement printer.

I've bought a(n allegedly) new transfer roller on eBay. It should be
here within a week.

Perce

On 07/16/2017 06:50 PM, Tony wrote:

For now I can print what I need by doing each page separately and
turning the stack over to print the second page, but I really want to
find the problem.

Just a thought. Does the defect appear if the page is blank? The reason for the
question is to determine if this is a "ghost" image rather than a dirty mark.

Still there on a blank page. But now I see intermittent marks close to
the long edges of that second side as well.

Perce