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Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 9th 09, 08:42 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
IntergalacticExpandingPanda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 377
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

On May 8, 7:44*pm, Tony wrote:

It is most unlikely that this is a drum problem, drums rarely fail like your
description.


Now that I think about it, the only time I had this issue was with a
TI micro laser. It was a unit that took bulk toner. It was in a
handy package, but it was still just bulk toner. I had both a drum
and developer issue, where the developer was like your cartridge.
Vertical streaks was the drum, the other issue was resolved by
replacing the developer.

I wasn't remembering correctly as I replaced both units.


  #12  
Old May 9th 09, 10:43 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Arthur Entlich
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Posts: 2,229
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

Hi Tony and Mike,

Again, my comments are based upon the 1350 model. As I recall (I
haven't done a refill in a while) the toner cartridge doesn't have a
waste toner compartment.

However, (and now I'm running memory...never a safe bet for me at this
time of night) I believe this model doesn't have developer either, as it
doesn't use a magnetic roller with "fur". It uses a electro-static
plastic collar on a roller of some sort. The toner seems to be made of
a consistent non-metallic non-magnetic very fine plastic powder, so I
don;t think the problem is that the consistency of the toner is changing
over time due to loss of toner and increased developer.

However, I just looked at mine, and the drum unit has a number of
systems for cleaning the drum. It uses a wiper blade, as all do, but it
also uses a cylindrical brush made of electrostatic fibers that runs the
length of the drum. I am not absolutely sure, but under this brush
there may be a small waste toner compartment.

I suspect that, if the 1250W is designed similarly, that area has become
filled with waste toner and the electrostatic brush is over-burdened
with toner. The fix involves somewhat dismantling the drum unit to get
that toner powder out of that chamber and then carefully cleaning that
brush off. Unfortunately, I don't recall the full details on how to
dismantle it. If you decide to tackle it, be sure to keep the drum away
from bright light, low level incandescent light isn't too bad for short
periods of time, but UV light from the sun and halogen or fluorescent is
best avoided, care to avoid damaging the drum surface physically or with
oils (including fingerprints if possible). Use soft and non-abrasive
lint free rags or brushes to clean.

Also the electrostatic brush is made up of many small fibers, and you
should try not to damage them or flatten them.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Tony wrote:
(Mike S.) wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?


There are two possibilities.
1. The toner cartridge does not have a waste toner compartment (can you confirm
this?), if that is the case the waste toner is put back into the toner
cartridge main toner hopper, if this was not completely cleaned out when you
refilled the cartridge it will cause the problem you see. Waste toner has a
very high percentage of developer which in too high a proportion will cause
gray backgrounds.
2. The wiper (cleaner) blade in the drum unit is failing. This would however
not normally cause a uniform gray background but vertical streaks of gray on
the paper.

It is most unlikely that this is a drum problem, drums rarely fail like your
description.

My bet is 1. above.
Tony
MS MVP Printing Image

  #13  
Old May 9th 09, 10:53 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Tony[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 600
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

Art
You could well be correct. I have never examined this model or the series it is
part of.
The system you describe is very similar to some colour printer cartridge/toner
combinations. I know that the printer in question is not colour of course.
Some of these have separate toner and drum units, some are combined. The drum
is cleaned with a small blade and toner is dispersed onto the drum with a soft
roller, in all the cases I have seen there is a very small waste compartment
under one of the rollers.
If this was to overflow then what you describe would indeed occur. Again in all
cases I have seen the waste toner is less dense (lighter in colour) than the
original toner which indicates that a change has occurred to the toner, I have
assumed this is because the bulk of the waste toner is in fact developer
which is premixed with the toner by the manufacturer - I would be keen to learn
if my assumption is correct or not, but have never seen the need to look
further into it. Printers using this technology seem to produce less waste
toner than the traditional cartridges.
In any event, if the background is uniform rather than streaky, I still believe
this is some form of contamination from waste toner. Hard to be certain of
course without seeing the printer.
Tony

Arthur Entlich wrote:
Hi Tony and Mike,

Again, my comments are based upon the 1350 model. As I recall (I
haven't done a refill in a while) the toner cartridge doesn't have a
waste toner compartment.

However, (and now I'm running memory...never a safe bet for me at this
time of night) I believe this model doesn't have developer either, as it
doesn't use a magnetic roller with "fur". It uses a electro-static
plastic collar on a roller of some sort. The toner seems to be made of
a consistent non-metallic non-magnetic very fine plastic powder, so I
don;t think the problem is that the consistency of the toner is changing
over time due to loss of toner and increased developer.

However, I just looked at mine, and the drum unit has a number of
systems for cleaning the drum. It uses a wiper blade, as all do, but it
also uses a cylindrical brush made of electrostatic fibers that runs the
length of the drum. I am not absolutely sure, but under this brush
there may be a small waste toner compartment.

I suspect that, if the 1250W is designed similarly, that area has become
filled with waste toner and the electrostatic brush is over-burdened
with toner. The fix involves somewhat dismantling the drum unit to get
that toner powder out of that chamber and then carefully cleaning that
brush off. Unfortunately, I don't recall the full details on how to
dismantle it. If you decide to tackle it, be sure to keep the drum away
from bright light, low level incandescent light isn't too bad for short
periods of time, but UV light from the sun and halogen or fluorescent is
best avoided, care to avoid damaging the drum surface physically or with
oils (including fingerprints if possible). Use soft and non-abrasive
lint free rags or brushes to clean.

Also the electrostatic brush is made up of many small fibers, and you
should try not to damage them or flatten them.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Tony wrote:
(Mike S.) wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.
I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?


There are two possibilities.
1. The toner cartridge does not have a waste toner compartment (can you
confirm
this?), if that is the case the waste toner is put back into the toner
cartridge main toner hopper, if this was not completely cleaned out when you
refilled the cartridge it will cause the problem you see. Waste toner has a
very high percentage of developer which in too high a proportion will cause
gray backgrounds.
2. The wiper (cleaner) blade in the drum unit is failing. This would however
not normally cause a uniform gray background but vertical streaks of gray on
the paper.

It is most unlikely that this is a drum problem, drums rarely fail like your
description.

My bet is 1. above.
Tony
MS MVP Printing Image


  #14  
Old May 10th 09, 03:45 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Mike S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 149
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?


In article ,
IntergalacticExpandingPanda wrote:
On May 8, 4:36*pm, (Mike S.) wrote:
I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?



If I had to guess, I would guess your drum is wearing out and picking
up a consistent back of toner, which gets transferred to the paper.

Regardless you're in the troubleshooting zone.

Replace with OEM Cartridge, if no work replace drum. You "could" do
this in reverse order and have a spare drum on hand, just these things
are light sensitive and a pain to store.

Given you're output is consistent, I'd lean toward the drum.


That's what I feared. If you read the earlier part of this thread, I was
trying to avoid investing significant money in this aging, low-end
printer. A drum would cost more than a new unit ... so maybe it's time to
replace.



  #15  
Old May 10th 09, 05:26 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Mike S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 149
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?


In article ,
Tony wrote:
(Mike S.) wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.


I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?


There are two possibilities.
1. The toner cartridge does not have a waste toner compartment (can you confirm
this?), if that is the case the waste toner is put back into the toner
cartridge main toner hopper, if this was not completely cleaned out when you
refilled the cartridge it will cause the problem you see. Waste toner has a
very high percentage of developer which in too high a proportion will cause
gray backgrounds.


Frankly; I wouldn't know what to look for.

2. The wiper (cleaner) blade in the drum unit is failing. This would however
not normally cause a uniform gray background but vertical streaks of gray on
the paper.


If I look closely, I see that the grey is not totally even; there are some
faint vertical streaks, and it is more dense at the edges of the paper
than the center.
  #16  
Old May 10th 09, 05:29 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Mike S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 149
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?


In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
Hi Tony and Mike,

Again, my comments are based upon the 1350 model. As I recall (I
haven't done a refill in a while) the toner cartridge doesn't have a
waste toner compartment.


Thanks - that saves me some futike searching.

However, (and now I'm running memory...never a safe bet for me at this
time of night) I believe this model doesn't have developer either, as it
doesn't use a magnetic roller with "fur". It uses a electro-static
plastic collar on a roller of some sort. The toner seems to be made of
a consistent non-metallic non-magnetic very fine plastic powder, so I
don;t think the problem is that the consistency of the toner is changing
over time due to loss of toner and increased developer.

However, I just looked at mine, and the drum unit has a number of
systems for cleaning the drum. It uses a wiper blade, as all do, but it
also uses a cylindrical brush made of electrostatic fibers that runs the
length of the drum. I am not absolutely sure, but under this brush
there may be a small waste toner compartment.

I suspect that, if the 1250W is designed similarly, that area has become
filled with waste toner and the electrostatic brush is over-burdened
with toner. The fix involves somewhat dismantling the drum unit to get
that toner powder out of that chamber and then carefully cleaning that
brush off. Unfortunately, I don't recall the full details on how to
dismantle it. If you decide to tackle it, be sure to keep the drum away
from bright light, low level incandescent light isn't too bad for short
periods of time, but UV light from the sun and halogen or fluorescent is
best avoided, care to avoid damaging the drum surface physically or with
oils (including fingerprints if possible). Use soft and non-abrasive
lint free rags or brushes to clean.


Sounds like more than I have the time/patience to tackle. Disassembly
instructions would help - I'll cruise the "fixyour own" sites in case this
has already been documented somewhere. I did dust off the drum with a clean
nonabrasive rag but the haze (and drum dusting) returned within a few pages.

Also the electrostatic brush is made up of many small fibers, and you
should try not to damage them or flatten them.


Eggh.
  #17  
Old May 11th 09, 07:21 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
GMAN[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

In article , measekite wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 18:36:53 -0500, Mike S. wrote:


I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?


You got what you paid for.


Someone ought to pay to give you what you deserve!
  #18  
Old May 12th 09, 05:00 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Michael Johnson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 403
Default Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

GMAN wrote:
In article , measekite wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 18:36:53 -0500, Mike S. wrote:


I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

You got what you paid for.


Someone ought to pay to give you what you deserve!


Has has gotten what he deserves. He is our village idiot.
 




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