Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

On Dec 28, 8:20*am, (Mike S.) wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W snip it produces
very nice output at higher resolution snip
We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge snip we're still *on the
original drum. snip

What would you do?

I'd refill the toner cartridge for about $15, over and over, until the
drum started showing signs of failure
http://tinyurl.com/8b2r3d. Then I'd probably get another refurb
Brother laser printer. I've had good experiences with them, and they
refill easily -- high capacity for about $11delivered http://
tinyurl.com/7vm65p.

Best,
Larry

Mike S. wrote:

We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

$82.99 for 3,000-page toner, and you don't even get a new drum for that.
That's very expensive to run. You've paid $332 to print 12,000 pages
for toner alone. A LJ4050 cartridge rated at 10,000 pages and including
a new drum is $135.49, less than half the per-page price. (That's from
Staples, but both are cheaper elsewhere.)

That "cheap" printer isn't saving you money.

Buying refilled toner or refilling it yourself may be practical to get a
little more operating life out of that printer. For me it would depend
on whether I can find a better printer for about the same cost as a
single toner change (probably).

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

Replacing your current "cheap" printer with a newer "cheap" printer will
have the same problem. The Samsung is probably the ML-2510, another GDI
printer with 3,000-page toner refills at $83.99. Yikes. At least it
looks like a cartridge includes a drum.

What would you do?

Probably replace it with a used business-class laser with much lower
operating costs. Here's a thing I wrote on that a while back:

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/usedlasers.pdf

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

Art



If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

Thanks for the suggestions, all.

If the 1350W has a chip in the cartridge to limit refilling options, I
wonder if our earlier 1250W does as well - that would limit the attraction
of trying to get it cheaply refilled. We may do so anyway, and if it craps
out use that as the reason to replace it with something more economical to
maintain.

There's a Cartridge World not far from us; I'll pass by there one day and
feel them out on this.

Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

On Fri, 08 May 2009 18:36:53 -0500, Mike S. wrote:

Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

You got what you paid for.

measekite wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 18:36:53 -0500, Mike S. wrote:

Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.
I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

You got what you paid for.

What about that compatible photo paper you use? Did you get what you
paid for?

On May 8, 4:36*pm, (Mike S.) wrote:
I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?


If I had to guess, I would guess your drum is wearing out and picking
up a consistent back of toner, which gets transferred to the paper.

Regardless you're in the troubleshooting zone.

Replace with OEM Cartridge, if no work replace drum. You "could" do
this in reverse order and have a spare drum on hand, just these things
are light sensitive and a pain to store.

Given you're output is consistent, I'd lean toward the drum.

(Mike S.) wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

In article ,
Arthur Entlich wrote:
I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

There are two possibilities.
1. The toner cartridge does not have a waste toner compartment (can you confirm
this?), if that is the case the waste toner is put back into the toner
cartridge main toner hopper, if this was not completely cleaned out when you
refilled the cartridge it will cause the problem you see. Waste toner has a
very high percentage of developer which in too high a proportion will cause
gray backgrounds.
2. The wiper (cleaner) blade in the drum unit is failing. This would however
not normally cause a uniform gray background but vertical streaks of gray on
the paper.

It is most unlikely that this is a drum problem, drums rarely fail like your
description.

My bet is 1. above.
Tony
MS MVP Printing Image