Need advice on video card

I am planning a new system. It will be used for several different
tasks. Specifically, I will be using Photoshop and Premiere Pro. I
also will be using Dragon Naturally Speaking (voice recognition) all of
the time.

I want the best video card I can get but I am not sure...

The two that I have heard the most about at the high end (sticking with
nVidia) would be the geForce 7900 and the Quadro 4500. The Quadro is
much more expensive. I understand that is supports dual link x2 but
other than that, what is the better card and why?

for background, the tentitive plan for the PC is:
Dual AMD Opteron (dual core) processors
4 GB DDR 400 ram
Anyone with a recomendation for motherboards, cases, cooling, power
supplies, etc feel free to chime in. I can use all the info I can
get.

Thanks,
Jeff

In article .com,
"jeff22" wrote:

I am planning a new system. It will be used for several different
tasks. Specifically, I will be using Photoshop and Premiere Pro. I
also will be using Dragon Naturally Speaking (voice recognition) all of
the time.

I want the best video card I can get but I am not sure...

The two that I have heard the most about at the high end (sticking with
nVidia) would be the geForce 7900 and the Quadro 4500. The Quadro is
much more expensive. I understand that is supports dual link x2 but
other than that, what is the better card and why?

for background, the tentitive plan for the PC is:
Dual AMD Opteron (dual core) processors
4 GB DDR 400 ram
Anyone with a recomendation for motherboards, cases, cooling, power
supplies, etc feel free to chime in. I can use all the info I can
get.

Thanks,
Jeff

Expensive does not always equal better for the application.

Many video cards have identical 2D performance, and your examples
of Photoshop and Premiere Pro are not suggestive of 3D applications.
High end video cards are mainly for gaming (fast 3D operations).

A few are intended for OpenGL, where part of the price is supposed
to include first rate OpenGL drivers (the drivers are expensive to
make for a small target audience, and thus the high price). FireGL
or Quadro, are examples of video cards used for CAD or other OpenGL
dependent applications.

For your application, you would want:

1) Adequate memory for double buffered frame buffers. (Just about
any modern card has more than enough for this.)
2) Fast bus connection (AGP 8X or PCI Express x16 is easy to find).
3) Good quality output stage. At one time, you got this with a
Matrox G400 or G450. Now, you can consider the DVI interface,
as a way of transferring the image to a monitor without
degradation due to the way the analog cable interface is
implemented. If you are still using a CRT (with its larger
gamut), then chances are you are still using analog VGA output,
and then the selection process is a lot tougher. Image quality
evaluation of video cards seems to have stopped years ago, and
I don't know of an easy way to determine whether a Matrox card
is a must-have.

Matrox has dropped out of the competition on gaming, and makes
cards for all the applications that the other makers have ignored.
Some of their cards are reasonably priced, and others are
outrageous.

http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/t...ne-up_2006.pdf
http://www.matrox.com/mga/corp/products/pdf/lineup.pdf

You should really find a forum where Photoshop users meet, to see
what they use for a video card. That group of users will be the
closest thing to an "Image Quality" test that you will be able
to find.

HTH,
Paul

"jeff22" wrote:


I am planning a new system. It will be used for several different
tasks. Specifically, I will be using Photoshop and Premiere Pro.
I also will be using Dragon Naturally Speaking (voice
recognition) all of the time.

I assume you know what you are getting into with speech recognition.
Speech recognition NaturallySpeaking is a good excuse to think fast.
It could take advantage of a well designed home built system on an
unlimited budget "somewhere, over the rainbow... la la la".

A Raptor is probably the way to go for the hard drive. If you can't
afford a big one, consider going with a small 10,000 rpm drive for
Windows and applications plus a large slower drive for storage. I'm
using the 37 GB version.

Your graphics memory requirements will probably provide enough to
satisfy the SR (if that were possible). I would ask also in the
groups which discuss those applications. The people who use the
applications are usually the ones who know best about their
requirements.

I'm still learning about what the SR needs, apparently it needs fast
CPU and memory performance, probably with a point of diminishing
returns somewhere.

Unless money grows on trees there, I would budget for trying various
microphones, USB might be best. And a decent speaker set might be
useful for reviewing/adjusting your voice. The guys (and gals) in
rec.audio.* have ideas about decent computer speakers (like "there
ain't none"). This group might be good for a speaker recommendation,
or at least good for a reference to another group.


I want the best video card I can get but I am not sure...

I would also ask in either the ATI and/or the NVIDIA videocard
group. And again mention your applications.

I'm not saying the best video card answer won't come from here, but
those two groups specialize in video cards.

Good luck.

nospam needed.com (Paul) wrote:

In article 1142913980.107664.284100
i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com wrote:

I am planning a new system. It will be used for several
different tasks. Specifically, I will be using Photoshop and
Premiere Pro.


Expensive does not always equal better for the application.

Many video cards have identical 2D performance, and your examples
of Photoshop and Premiere Pro are not suggestive of 3D
applications. High end video cards are mainly for gaming (fast 3D
operations).

Maybe the popular high-end video cards are for gaming.


A few are intended for OpenGL, where part of the price is supposed
to include first rate OpenGL drivers (the drivers are expensive to
make for a small target audience, and thus the high price). FireGL
or Quadro, are examples of video cards used for CAD or other
OpenGL dependent applications.

For your application, you would want:

1) Adequate memory for double buffered frame buffers. (Just about
any modern [video] card has more than enough for this.)

A well-written, good-looking reply, but then bells go off right
there.


You should really find a forum where Photoshop users meet, to see
what they use for a video card...

That will do.

From Adobe's web site:
"For optimum performance in Photoshop, use a video card with more
than 128 MG of RAM."









HTH,
Paul


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From: nospam needed.com (Paul)
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Subject: Need advice on video card
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Yes, that helps (both of you). Let me clarify a couple points.

I am using an LCD display (24") and would like the ability to add
another similar display to the system (two side-by-side).

I do not need info on speech recognition. I have that working great
right now.
As to microphones. I am using a Sennheiser handheld microphone (in a
boom stand) with amazing results. It works better than any microphone
I have ever tried (and I have tried many). It was expensive but well
worth it.

My big issue is speed, and reliability. I want drivers that are
solid, not buggy.

Thanks
Jeff

"jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com wrote:


I do not need info on speech recognition. I have that working
great right now.

There might be other readers who appreciate your solicitation and my
[m]eager advice.


As to microphones. I am using a Sennheiser handheld microphone
(in a boom stand) with amazing results. It works better than any
microphone I have ever tried (and I have tried many). It was
expensive but well worth it.

I'm pretty sure that a headset microphone is the best for speech
clarity, whatever brand/model.


My big issue is speed, and reliability. I want drivers that are
solid, not buggy.

That's an unusual but valid request, IMO. I guess you could make
friends with a local techie, or buy a prebuilt system from a
reputable OEM.








Thanks
Jeff



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From: "jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com
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Subject: Need advice on video card
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In article , John Doe
wrote:

nospam needed.com (Paul) wrote:

In article 1142913980.107664.284100
i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com wrote:

I am planning a new system. It will be used for several
different tasks. Specifically, I will be using Photoshop and
Premiere Pro.


Expensive does not always equal better for the application.

Many video cards have identical 2D performance, and your examples
of Photoshop and Premiere Pro are not suggestive of 3D
applications. High end video cards are mainly for gaming (fast 3D
operations).

Maybe the popular high-end video cards are for gaming.


A few are intended for OpenGL, where part of the price is supposed
to include first rate OpenGL drivers (the drivers are expensive to
make for a small target audience, and thus the high price). FireGL
or Quadro, are examples of video cards used for CAD or other
OpenGL dependent applications.

For your application, you would want:

1) Adequate memory for double buffered frame buffers. (Just about
any modern [video] card has more than enough for this.)

A well-written, good-looking reply, but then bells go off right
there.


You should really find a forum where Photoshop users meet, to see
what they use for a video card...

That will do.

From Adobe's web site:
"For optimum performance in Photoshop, use a video card with more
than 128 MG of RAM."


I guess you got that from he
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/331412.html

I prefer a pronouncement like that, to be accompanied with
an explanation. If you refer to any product requirements,
they don't even mention the amount of video card memory.

There is one comment here, by a "Scott Byer", and he appears
to be an Adobe employee. (Verified by examining some of his
USENET postings...) Scott mentions 32MB as the breakpoint
for "enough". I think this thread should be read, just as a
forewarning of things to come with CS2. There may be issues
anyway, no matter what you buy. And this is one reason the
OP should be reading Photoshop forums threads, as some people
there do this stuff for a living and care about performance.

(Click login as guest to get to the thread.)
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/[email protected]

General discussion about memory and Photoshop:
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/320005.html

I write replies like this, because I hate to see people
buy Quadro or FireGL level cards, for a relatively non-demanding
video card task. I'm only a casual Photoshop user myself, and
never used any "elite" cards with it. I have some older copies
of Photoshop, and cannot afford to buy each version when it
comes out. I read about people using G400 and G450 type cards
for Photoshop, and there doesn't seem to be any sense of panic
regarding upgrading the video card because of some new requirements.
Maybe the average Photoshop "punter" like me, doesn't own CS2,
and that is why older hardware is sufficient.

A 24" LCD monitor like this one:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/P...=us&l=en&cs=19

is 1920x1200. That is WUXGA, and according to this web page,
is achievable with single link DVI-I video ports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvi

If a monitor with a resolution larger than that is contemplated,
then a "dual link" DVI-I connector could well be required. And if
the res goes high enough, eventually the refresh rate has to drop (but
that isn't likely to be a scenario for a mere mortal - the monitor
would be too expensive by the time the refresh rate has to drop
to 30Hz).

Finding dual link cards is a difficult thing to research. There
are a few expensive high end video cards with dual link DVI
connectors on them, as well as some recently introduced video
cards like the ATI X1000 family. But getting reliable product
information on the capabilities is difficult, as the video card
manufacturers just copy/paste specs from the respective ATI or
Nvidia web pages, without actually identifying what parts of
the spec they actually built into their cards. That can make
it frustrating trying to verify whether a given card has the
dual link interface or not. (Note that some cards have one
dual link and one single link connector, so the capability
is not necessarily available on both connectors.) The last time
I tried looking, I started on an ATI web page, and went methodically
through their partner list, to see if any manufacturer of the
video cards would actually list a factual description of the
cards they were selling.

Connector pictures are near the bottom of this page. The dual
link is only necessary if the monitor goes above 1920x1200,
and otherwise a midrange card should offer two single link
DVI-I connectors, suitable for driving the example Dell monitor
mentioned above.

(DVI connector types with pictures)
http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/dvi_info.html

Since video cards with two single link DVI-I connectors start
in the mid-range of video card products, they are likely to meet
this "128MB" video card memory requirement at the same time.
($108 and upwards.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...048+1069109631

HTH,
Paul

Fair enough. Let me try to respond to these...

While I am sure some people would be interested in my speech
recognition experience, I didn't think this was the right place to
disucuss it. Since you brought up the microphone issue let me just say
that...

1. I have tried many headset microphones
2. I have tried many other styles of microphone

The current boom microphone (hand help mic on a boom arm) works better
by orders of magnitude! I have almost perfect accuracy and I don't
have to worry that the microphone is the perfect distance from my
mouth, as would be the case with a headset. It was expensive but well
worth it.

I think that sums up my whole design goal. I want the best I can get.
I don't mind paying for quality. I do mind buying something just
because it is new, hot, flashy, trendy, or hip. I don't care if the
card can make coffee and fold my laundry while it does its job. I just
want the best video performance I can get.

I do see your point about asking around in a photoshop forum and I will
do that.

To clarify my monitor situation, as I understand it, I only need
dual-link if I exceed 1920x1200. My current 24" LCD is 1920x1200. I
assume that if I were to purchase a second idential monitor, I could
connect that to any card supporting two monitors and that does not
require dual-link. Dual link would only be for such things as the 30"
Apple cinema display.

Thanks for all the input.
Jeff

"jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com wrote:

Fair enough. Let me try to respond to these...

While I am sure some people would be interested in my speech
recognition experience, I didn't think this was the right place to
disucuss it. Since you brought up the microphone issue let me
just say that...

1. I have tried many headset microphones
2. I have tried many other styles of microphone

The current boom microphone (hand help mic on a boom arm) works
better by orders of magnitude! I have almost perfect accuracy and
I don't have to worry that the microphone is the perfect distance
from my mouth, as would be the case with a headset.

Hello troll.













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From: "jeff22" conf22 yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Need advice on video card
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At first I thought you were calling me names.
I don't understand what you are talking about.
I asked a question. I tried to clarify.

Did I post something wrong? Did I somehow offend you?